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Dominik



Joined: Oct 29, 2004

Post   Posted: Oct 17, 2017 - 13:55 Reply with quote Back to top

There shouldnt be coacvhes displayed in Rankings for races if theyve played 20 or 30 games or less. Coac "paradocks" has a 7/1/0 record and is therefore the 6th best Khemri Tomb Kings coach in Blackbox. "mawph" is 30th best wth a stunning record of 1/0/0.

And rankings tell that ive played 116 games with Khemri so far while the team record says it was 115.
mawph



Joined: Jul 02, 2013

Post   Posted: Oct 17, 2017 - 14:42 Reply with quote Back to top

whoop! 30th best Khemri coach in box, I'll take that Razz

the answer to your point around 115 Vs 116 games will be the answer Matt gave to my previous question (top page 8 ), I suspect. You'll likely have played one fumbbl cup game which counted as Ranked (as I've got 1 necro game counting as box, when I've only ever had a ranked necro team)
Sp00keh



Joined: Dec 06, 2011

Post   Posted: Oct 17, 2017 - 19:29 Reply with quote Back to top

Guys it's still updating and still being tweaked

You can tell, if you click on the F logo for overall ranking on coach page, it will say an amount of wins loss draws
If this doesn't match with actual total (just below) then the script is still processing. it takes several hours
The_Murker



Joined: Jan 30, 2011

Post   Posted: Oct 17, 2017 - 20:30 Reply with quote Back to top

Quick summation from a Discord, then I bow out. I can't say it any clearer than this, I don't think.

The_Murker - Today at 11:18 AM
"If you want to reward a big shift for a weak coach or a noob beating a legend, that's one thing. That is why smallman is rated high. His exploit beats legends. But if you continue to punish a legend for losing to a noob, this is where great coaches lose their true place.
Everyone loses ork vs ork at 1100 tv. But this is also a great place to find a challenge, or to help noobs learn."

Low TV games are a crap shoot. Legends should not be punished for playing low TV. It should be hard to become a Legend, almost impossible for a cherry-picker. It should be easy to stay there.

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Tzij



Joined: May 01, 2011

Post   Posted: Oct 17, 2017 - 20:48 Reply with quote Back to top

The_Murker wrote:
Legends should not be punished for playing low TV. It should be hard to become a Legend, almost impossible for a cherry-picker. It should be easy to stay there.



If my understanding is correct, Legend ranking is a certain percentage of the playerbase. If you don't penalize legends for losing down, once legend they'd never drop. Pretty much ever.
mrt1212



Joined: Feb 26, 2013

Post   Posted: Oct 17, 2017 - 20:52 Reply with quote Back to top

The_Murker wrote:
Quick summation from a Discord, then I bow out. I can't say it any clearer than this, I don't think.

The_Murker - Today at 11:18 AM
"If you want to reward a big shift for a weak coach or a noob beating a legend, that's one thing. That is why smallman is rated high. His exploit beats legends. But if you continue to punish a legend for losing to a noob, this is where great coaches lose their true place.
Everyone loses ork vs ork at 1100 tv. But this is also a great place to find a challenge, or to help noobs learn."

Low TV games are a crap shoot. Legends should not be punished for playing low TV. It should be hard to become a Legend, almost impossible for a cherry-picker. It should be easy to stay there.


This is a side bar but I think coaches self selecting to play low TV where they enjoy an inherent advantage doesn't show coaching skill, rather awareness of where they do best.
Tzij



Joined: May 01, 2011

Post   Posted: Oct 17, 2017 - 21:00 Reply with quote Back to top

mrt1212 wrote:
The_Murker wrote:
Quick summation from a Discord, then I bow out. I can't say it any clearer than this, I don't think.

The_Murker - Today at 11:18 AM
"If you want to reward a big shift for a weak coach or a noob beating a legend, that's one thing. That is why smallman is rated high. His exploit beats legends. But if you continue to punish a legend for losing to a noob, this is where great coaches lose their true place.
Everyone loses ork vs ork at 1100 tv. But this is also a great place to find a challenge, or to help noobs learn."

Low TV games are a crap shoot. Legends should not be punished for playing low TV. It should be hard to become a Legend, almost impossible for a cherry-picker. It should be easy to stay there.


This is a side bar but I think coaches self selecting to play low TV where they enjoy an inherent advantage doesn't show coaching skill, rather awareness of where they do best.


Or the races they enjoy play best. About half the races don't play well above like 1700/1800 TV.
The_Murker



Joined: Jan 30, 2011

Post   Posted: Oct 18, 2017 - 00:43 Reply with quote Back to top

I suppose the other thing you could do is use whatever formula you wanted to decide the CR number in the background, but totally hide the number. Both the CR page and a coaches profile would simply show the players 'title' and coach standing.

"Purple_Chest is a ""Legend"" and his current standing is 14th."

Nerds can't argure with a number they can't see.

You {i]could[/i] also make a decision and an announcement.. "Only games against a coach within' one bracket of your own can change your standing." So a Super-Star's hidden CR number and Standing would only be affected by games against Stars, (a bit) other Super-Stars, (the most) and Legends. (a bit)

The "noob hunting" to make Super-Star or Legend status ends.

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spelledaren



Joined: Mar 06, 2004

Post   Posted: Oct 18, 2017 - 08:54 Reply with quote Back to top

Interesting idea Murker!

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Kondor



Joined: Apr 04, 2008

Post   Posted: Oct 18, 2017 - 10:56 Reply with quote Back to top

The_Murker wrote:

The_Murker - Today at 11:18 AM
"If you want to reward a big shift for a weak coach or a noob beating a legend, that's one thing. That is why smallman is rated high. His exploit beats legends. But if you continue to punish a legend for losing to a noob, this is where great coaches lose their true place.
Everyone loses ork vs ork at 1100 tv. But this is also a great place to find a challenge, or to help noobs learn."


Without PO I don't think this is so true. I doubt that poor coachs will regularly be able to clear the pitch enough to influence most games. Running with a couple of rerolls and spamming mb/claw will thin well armored lines and teams with a no bench but struggle against zons, norse, elves, and teams with any bench.

You may not consider smallman not have the positioning or time management skill of legendary players but I submit that he would probably still fall into the SuperStar category playing with any team.

I support legend hunting.
muaddib68



Joined: Apr 27, 2014

Post   Posted: Oct 20, 2017 - 10:43 Reply with quote Back to top

I just make a work hypotesis uh ^^ But my actual CR was 141.12 or something else...i got 1500+- lost game ...how can i have a so high cr??...
If we take a lost CR between 0.75 and 1.25 by loosing a game and about 0.35 to 0.75 CR wining by a game won ....must have a negative cr ^^....or i dont know how maths work ??
PurpleChest



Joined: Oct 25, 2003

Post   Posted: Oct 20, 2017 - 11:01 Reply with quote Back to top

If you face a 160 coach while at 150, you lose .5 CR but gain .75 Cr for a win.

If you face a 160 coach while at 140, you lose .25 CR but gain 2 CR for a win.

Face a 180 coach at 135 and lose .01 CR for a loss but gain 15 CR for a win.

(all numbers made up to demonstrate a principle)

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koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: Oct 20, 2017 - 12:20 Reply with quote Back to top

The_Murker wrote:
I suppose the other thing you could do is use whatever formula you wanted to decide the CR number in the background, but totally hide the number. Both the CR page and a coaches profile would simply show the players 'title' and coach standing.

"Purple_Chest is a ""Legend"" and his current standing is 14th."

Nerds can't argure with a number they can't see.


The only real point of CR for a lot of people is that it is a nerdy number that goes up if you win and goes down if you lose. The rank label doesn't have the same value because it is not volatile enough. People won't have any indication as to how far they are from the next rank.

As for legends. Some people should just have a legend flag so that they always display as Legends.

You could have an annual Hall of Fame enshrinement ceremony. Wink

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Christer



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Oct 20, 2017 - 13:16
FUMBBL Staff
Reply with quote Back to top

The_Murker wrote:
Nerds can't argure with a number they can't see.


Hah, you are greatly underestimating nerds Smile

(Edit): A nerd will reverse-engineer the number based on the information that *is* available, and then proceed to point out that a certain case is giving 0.02 too much CR and go to great lengths to explain exactly why this is the case and why this invalidates the whole system.

On a more serious note, I did hide the actual CR for a while, showing only the bracket. People objected pretty strongly, thus you can now see the actual number again.
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