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JackassRampant



Joined: Feb 26, 2011

Post   Posted: Oct 18, 2017 - 17:15 Reply with quote Back to top

IDK about Murk's formula.

But I agree with his central point to an extent.

If a Veteran beats a Legend, it should not count for that much more than it would if he beat an Emerging Star or Star. You played up and won. How far up? How were your dice? What were the "intangibles" of the matchup? It all gets lost in the mix. You played down and lost. So what? It's a dice game. The important part is that you lost, not that you played down.

If a Legend beats a Veteran, it should not count for much of anything at all, for either coach. The expected result happened.

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thoralf



Joined: Mar 06, 2008

Post   Posted: Oct 18, 2017 - 17:46 Reply with quote Back to top

JackassRampant wrote:
If a Veteran beats a Legend, it should not count for that much more than it would if he beat an Emerging Star or Star.


Of course it should.

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The_Murker



Joined: Jan 30, 2011

Post   Posted: Oct 18, 2017 - 18:03 Reply with quote Back to top

Quote:
I'll give it a go. A couple of questions for your spec:

Qualities: For "Poor", are all goblins considered poor, or only goblins <1150 TV? Ie. is the <1150 specifically for vampires, or stunties as well?

Normal: Define a MAJOR difference.

Borked: I'm guessing this is better than normal? Are amazons at 1150 considered better quality than any other group? for example amazons at 2150tv?

Formula, you're saying CR+(1.0M); is this M supposed to designate a decimal 1.0, or something else?


In the end, this is easy enough to implement and should run quickly given that I don't need to persist the result.

Is a tab separated txt result good enough? Coach, tier, CR? I'll run it over everything 2016 and later most likely.


That would be awesome.

All goblins are poor.
Other than all goblins, all halflings, low TV Vamps, and low TV amazons, all other teams are normal, at all TVs.

Amazons below 1200 TV are too good. By 1200 TV, in an amazon rich enviroment, most coaches concerned with CR should take some Tackle and Mighty Blow. TV's of the opponet are just assumed to be similar, and are not needed or included in the match analysis. The important thing is the amazon coach IS USING a borked team, rendering the match less important.

So if Poor = X, Normal = Y, and Borked = Z
Any game not X vs.X, Y v Y or Z vs Z only adjusts CR by half the normal amount.

A Sample calculation:

A legend with CR 177.3 uses goblins at 1800 TV and loses to a Star (CR 161.76) who used humans at 1350 TV.

Legend's new CR' = 177.30 - (1.0 X 0.15 X 0.5)
So CR' = 177.23 (177.225 rounded up)

And the Star gains 0.08 CR for his human victory.

If they had both used humans the CR change would have been 0.15.

Team analysis, if it is possible, can obviously be more complex, but this trial keeps things purposly simplified. It tries to use generalizations a significant portion of FUMBBL would agree with:
Stunties are underpowered, low TV Vamps suck, and low TV Amazons are for coaches who like to look at themselves in the mirror almost as much as they like to look at their naked Amazon miniatures.

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The_Murker



Joined: Jan 30, 2011

Post   Posted: Oct 18, 2017 - 18:06 Reply with quote Back to top

The formula also assumes inducements are just fine, avoiding TV comparison requirements, and keeps things simple.

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The_Murker



Joined: Jan 30, 2011

Post   Posted: Oct 18, 2017 - 18:23 Reply with quote Back to top

Sorry, if it wasn't clear, the variable 'M' is the difference between the tier the coaches are in. So Star vs. Star M = 1.0, Star vs. Super Star M = 0.5, Star vs. Legend (or Veteran) M = 0.15.

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Christer



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Oct 18, 2017 - 18:44
FUMBBL Staff
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https://fumbbl.com/p/t8
thoralf



Joined: Mar 06, 2008

Post   Posted: Oct 18, 2017 - 19:17 Reply with quote Back to top

Harad Legend 217.2595
Malmir Legend 204.1055
cedric19 Legend 194.951
Elyoukey Legend 187.2745
kingvan Legend 184.9085
Nightbreed Legend 184.649
Jokaero Legend 184.373
PurpleChest Legend 184.364
Stonetroll Legend 184.28
sebco Legend 184.1285
HarpoHarvesterOfSorrow Legend 184.0375
Jos75 Legend 183.0675
Tricktickler Legend 180.7365
doclystria Legend 180.329
tykoonfranky Legend 180.1685
Relezite Legend 179.257
fxiii Legend 179.0955
DatMonsta Legend 178.994
BiBi Legend 178.9635
MikiRuni81 Legend 178.5535
Motskari Legend 178.43
bassista Legend 177.912
Dominik Legend 177.758
Wreckage Legend 177.566
okostomi Legend 177.4845
Ignaz Legend 177.423
jean-michel Legend 177.273
bancobat Legend 176.568
Emphasy Legend 176.56
Reisender Legend 176.423

I can buy that.

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Sp00keh



Joined: Dec 06, 2011

Post   Posted: Oct 18, 2017 - 19:18 Reply with quote Back to top

Looks good
Murker for president
$100 for Christer


The problem does come with future data, tho. coaches will adapt to the meta changes this results in
So Amazons at 1210 TV, etc.
Also my point above about race modifier simplified damping diversity

Why is the top end so high?
Actually why doesn't Christer's system currently produce something similar? as it's not hugely different, just more more refined
spelledaren



Joined: Mar 06, 2004

Post   Posted: Oct 18, 2017 - 20:22 Reply with quote Back to top

Heh, the bottom is actually someone on a negative score there.

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The_Murker



Joined: Jan 30, 2011

Post   Posted: Oct 18, 2017 - 20:31 Reply with quote Back to top

What amount of data is this? 2016?

Anyway.. this made my day. Thank you. Donation incoming. These guys listed are all amazing, and Harad.. well.. he deffo isn't afraid to play other Legends, and they certainly can't beat him more than they lose to him. Great stuff.

The "_M" rating. I like it. Can this be a thing?

smallman's _MR is 168.208, a Super Star. Well.. at least he is well below PurpleChest!!

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The_Murker



Joined: Jan 30, 2011

Post   Posted: Oct 18, 2017 - 20:51 Reply with quote Back to top

FYI guys, the data used when you click on Christer's link above is JUST from January 1st, 2016 until present. The list will recalculate everytime you click the link, if I understand Christer correctly.

So.. personal ratings might not be accurate for coaches not very active in 2016 and 2017.

ALL coaches start this calculation with an _MR of 150.00 on 2016-01-01.

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Dominik



Joined: Oct 29, 2004

Post   Posted: Oct 18, 2017 - 21:00 Reply with quote Back to top

After all this CR discussion and the obvious importance for a heap of coaches could you, Christer, maybe add an option to seperate R&B games from the others of "Game statistics"?
The_Murker



Joined: Jan 30, 2011

Post   Posted: Oct 18, 2017 - 21:19 Reply with quote Back to top

OK, update.. Christer's original link now uses ONLY 2017 data.
You can also alter the final number to any year, and run the calculation that way.
So this link:

https://fumbbl.com/p/t8?y=2016

shows your _M Rating on Dec 31st 2016, if you started 2016 with an _MR of 150.00

MY top coaches for 2016 are:

YEAR 2016
Harad Legend 186.959
kingvan Legend 179.6835
MikiRuni81 Legend 179.358
PurpleChest Legend 179.023
bassista Legend 178.528
Ignaz Legend 177.561
CroixFer Legend 177.525
jean-michel Legend 176.548
Reisender Legend 176.423
Jokaero Legend 176.087
Stonetroll Legend 175.758
zhraia Legend 175.1645
Elyoukey Legend 174.848
sebco Legend 174.246
tykoonfranky Legend 173.955
Dominik Legend 172.3215
Malmir Legend 172.191
BiBi Legend 172.055
Jan1 Legend 171.93
bghandras Legend 171.624
Chainsaw Legend 171.6095
blackGigio Legend 171.474
Emphasy Legend 171.466
SwissSwatchWatch Legend 171.4325
Hamlet1980 Legend 171.357
Bazakastine Legend 171.348
BattleLore Legend 171.139
Timetis Legend 171.1005
Azure Legend 171.0735
cedric19 Legend 171.0245

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The_Murker



Joined: Jan 30, 2011

Post   Posted: Oct 18, 2017 - 21:20 Reply with quote Back to top

This is so cool I might have pee'd myself a little.

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The_Murker



Joined: Jan 30, 2011

Post   Posted: Oct 18, 2017 - 21:23 Reply with quote Back to top

Who was a bad-ass in 2003? The answer might surprise you.

https://fumbbl.com/p/t8?y=2003

YEAR 2003
Malthor Legend 183.3255
Christer Legend 182.706
EvolveToAnarchism Legend 181.9075
Petter Legend 177.4345
deletedaccount1 Legend 177.142
DrDookums Legend 176.933
lord_shambles Legend 176.6885
solmyr Legend 176.6565
maxblb Legend 175.98
Celyn Legend 175.932
Jahira Legend 174.2565
Csonti Legend 173.971
Barash Legend 173.2925
Zalphir Legend 173.182
Bendrig Legend 173.0865
gorritakid Legend 172.7475
veron Legend 172.7115
robofreem Legend 172.5575
Luk Legend 172.515
Samuli Legend 172.28
Wuhan Legend 172.1605
JFK Legend 172.1255
AvatarDM Legend 172.029
Swift Legend 171.762
Prez Legend 171.521
Mathias Legend 171.429
Mezir Legend 171.356
LordIrmis Legend 171.336
Gitzbang Legend 171.171

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