FUMBBL :: Online Blood Bowl League

Joined: Nov 19, 2003

Posted: Jun 22, 2004 - 16:10

Are nurglers weaker than chaos?

A)
I consider the Beast as good as any big guy the chaos can choose (Troll, Ogre, Mino). Maybe it's even better to have the choice on the chaos team. Not sure about that tho.

B)
Beastmen are beastmen. Smile

C)
Rotters have 4429 Regen, FA. Chaos Warriors have 5439.

IMO, the Rotters are worse to get skills and only work as LoS hulks to put in the way.
Another disadvantage is the lack of an apo.
I won't explain my point of view any more at this point of time. I wanna get some results first.

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DropDeadFred

Joined: Mar 05, 2004

Posted: Jun 22, 2004 - 16:15

oh shut up mentok, if rotters had apo they would be to overpowering play your silly chaos
Mentok dies (1) apo fails
Dropdead Dies 5 times Regenerates!

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gken1

Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Posted: Jun 22, 2004 - 16:23

apo is better than regen fo the most part: 1. it keeps player on the field
2. you can save it for the "bad" injury
3. you can save it for your good players

But Nurgle is supposed to be a "fun" team...not on the level of the other teams and should be a notch below chaos. A good fix would be to take away horns on the beastmen and give them regen.

Surtur

Joined: Jan 09, 2004

Posted: Jun 22, 2004 - 16:45

I think the rotters work ok though...

The disadvantage of not having an apothecary is surely overcome with the beast and it's many playing strategies...

Believe it or not, in my oppinion the best strategy for a beast is to get it somewhere important and let is stay in its place, with it's tentacles...

Oppinions, oppinions... hard to debate on this subject

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Mentok

Joined: Nov 19, 2003

Posted: Jun 22, 2004 - 16:53

Hehe. Well sure. That's exactly how i play me beast. Put it next to 2-3 ST3 guys and maybe give 1-2 defense assists with the option to block em next turn.

Regen in exchange for horns is a nice alternative I guess.

PS: DDF, u suck hehehehe

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SonofSharkboy

Joined: Feb 04, 2004

Posted: Jun 22, 2004 - 17:10

They also do very well against teams that rely on the pass with all that foul appearance that can be spread out. The good players I've seen are also very adept at blocking you into their beast thereby eliminating a typical dodge away to safety strategy. No Apothecary just means they need to be even more aggressive in their game play. Maybe it's just me, but I also have horrible luck getting past FA when I try and block those suckers too!

SnakeSanders

Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Posted: Jun 22, 2004 - 17:46

you can also get rotters for FREE you know... that makes them quite good you know!

Bardurnon

Joined: Aug 07, 2003

Posted: Jun 22, 2004 - 17:48

In my opinion there could be two ways to even the balance could be:

1) Beastmen could be given Regenerate and lose Horns, but they then wouldn't be Beastmen IMO. Maybe the Beastmen could be changed into Nurgle Marauders or something? with block and Ar 7 (just a thought: dont shout at me!)

2) Plaguebearers could be added into the mix. Their stats could be MA 5 ST 3 AG 2 AV 8 maybe with FA and Regenarate. Limited to 0-2? cost 90k?
They are pretty weak but the team needs more Regenerate. If you think the Plaguebearers aren't good enough maybe giving them Horns as well makes them a bit better.

Arktoris

Joined: Feb 16, 2004

Posted: Jun 22, 2004 - 18:19

Perhaps drop regenerate on the rotters and lower their value to 100k, then provide option to apoth. but that may make them too close to (undivided) chaos. I'm not even sure WHY there is a nurgle team....where's the Khorne, Slaanesh, and Tzeetch (msp?) teams?

the nurgle beast is rather effective as stated above, for it's tentacles. I haven't lost to wood elves or skaven b/c I can hold them down....unfortunately I can't beat any other team : ( and the beastman that die are usually the best ones : (

gken1, where did you hear about Nurgle rotters are supposed to be less effective than chaos?

seems to me most play rotters in the divX...cuts down on injuries from aging and no need to spend $$$ on the apoth each game (cuz ya don'ts gets one).

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Aequitas

Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Posted: Jun 22, 2004 - 18:21

I think beastmen with 5328 or 6327/Horns/Regen would be the way to go, and make abit more sense. I'd gladly sacrifice -AG/-MA (or -AV) for Regen.

Those plaguebearers would make Rotters silly (every player having FA). But yeah, Rotters are too frustrating to play as it is.

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Mentok

Joined: Nov 19, 2003

Posted: Jun 22, 2004 - 18:21

Browwnrob, sure u can get rotters for free, but hey: What probability is that...
I am a bit lazy to calculate it, but the chance is pretty low. Not as low as for a stunty guy being eaten by a big guy, but comparable.

Ah well, lets calculate it:
The beast makes lets say 10 blocks/blitzes per game. Lets say furthermore that it has Block and 2db all the time against guy with block. so it's a 5/9 chance to pow the opponent. AV8 is a standard (tho elves often chicken out against nurglers, and the average AV will prolly be above 8. but still av8 is a good value). The probability to get a cas against AV is 1/10. And again to KILL someone it's 1/6.

Total chance to raise a rotter is 5/9 * 1/10 * 1/6. This equals less than 0.01 per block.
1 percent.
And I didnt even mention other important factors.
A) The beast getting hurt, stunned, knocked over itself, which will reduce the number of blocks again drastically.
B) The opponent using the apo on the killed player (which is comparably probable) but u cant really calculate a ratio for that.

So basically, the "infect" skill is a more or less useless add-on.

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Bardurnon

Joined: Aug 07, 2003

Posted: Jun 22, 2004 - 18:42

At Aequitas:

The plaguebearers would be reduced to a limit of 0-2 so the whole team wouldn't have FA and Regenerate Smile

The only way nurgle can be fixed is if they are weakened and given an apoth, or given more regenerate at the loss of skills.

The team could be:
0-1 Beast, 4519 Tentacles, Infect, Mighty Blow, FA, Regenerate
0-4 Rotters, 4429 FA, Regenerate
0-2 Plaguebearers, 5328 FA, Regenerate, Horns(?)
0-12 Beastmen, 6338 Horns

Elkerlyc

Joined: Mar 27, 2004

Posted: Jun 22, 2004 - 18:49

What would be wrong with just allowing the rotters an apoth which can only be used on beastmen? (not on rotters or beast?)

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Bardurnon

Joined: Aug 07, 2003

Posted: Jun 22, 2004 - 18:55

IMO that's makes them much better than chaos. At the moment the beastmen are what's letting the nurgle side down as they don't have apoth. Giving them that will mean that they have the same (maybe even better beastmen than chaos) because chaos has to use one apoth on the whole team while nurgle only need to use it on beastmen, so Nurgle beastmen will survive longer than Chaos beastmen. This will make them too good. I think more Regen is the answer, but not the whole team.

I like nurgle the way it is (although the are quite weak) as the rotters and beast make up the team. They are the ones with the highest SPP because they survive longer than the beastmen. I want that to stay the way it is as thats what makes them different from chaos.

SubSonic

Joined: Aug 22, 2003

Posted: Jun 22, 2004 - 20:11

Mentok wrote:

Browwnrob, sure u can get rotters for free, but hey: What probability is that...
I am a bit lazy to calculate it, but the chance is pretty low. Not as low as for a stunty guy being eaten by a big guy, but comparable.

Ah well, lets calculate it:
The beast makes lets say 10 blocks/blitzes per game. Lets say furthermore that it has Block and 2db all the time against guy with block. so it's a 5/9 chance to pow the opponent. AV8 is a standard (tho elves often chicken out against nurglers, and the average AV will prolly be above 8. but still av8 is a good value). The probability to get a cas against AV is 1/10. And again to KILL someone it's 1/6.

Total chance to raise a rotter is 5/9 * 1/10 * 1/6. This equals less than 0.01 per block.
1 percent.
And I didnt even mention other important factors.
A) The beast getting hurt, stunned, knocked over itself, which will reduce the number of blocks again drastically.
B) The opponent using the apo on the killed player (which is comparably probable) but u cant really calculate a ratio for that.

So basically, the "infect" skill is a more or less useless add-on.

If your calculations are even somewhat close (cant be bothered to check them myself Razz

) and you have 1% percent chance of gaining a rotter with each block, and you do avg of 10 blocks per game like you said, you can get a new rotter every 10th game. And one rotter is worth 110k, so you "win" 11k more gold per game... I wouldnt say its worthless Wink