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Rawlf



Joined: Jul 15, 2007

Post   Posted: Nov 10, 2017 - 10:40 Reply with quote Back to top

There is no cap for max tv difference.
There is no cap for minimal suitability scores.

Rookie protection is the only part of the algorithm that can lead to a 4 coach draw to fail.

The algorithm is explained in the Help section if you want to look it up.
koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: Nov 10, 2017 - 10:48 Reply with quote Back to top

If you have 4 coaches then you could probably get one game started.

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bghandras



Joined: Feb 06, 2011

Post   Posted: Nov 10, 2017 - 10:54 Reply with quote Back to top

Activating a rookie team is also a monoactivation. The alleged monoactivator of this thread even pointed at that. So i guess monoactivation IS THE PROBLEM. The disagreement seems to be about to complain about rookie or old teams. Why not just acknowledge the fact that both monoactivation is a problem?

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koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: Nov 10, 2017 - 11:05 Reply with quote Back to top

bghandras wrote:
Activating a rookie team is also a monoactivation. The alleged monoactivator of this thread even pointed at that. So i guess monoactivation IS THE PROBLEM. The disagreement seems to be about to complain about rookie or old teams. Why not just acknowledge the fact that both monoactivation is a problem?


Well, technically it isn't. Activating five teams at 1000TV doent's help. Wink

Neither does 5 at 1500 or 5 at 2000.

THE problem is that not enough people want to play Box.

Allowing one match to start with a 3 or 4 teams draw would get more games started.

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bghandras



Joined: Feb 06, 2011

Post   Posted: Nov 10, 2017 - 11:12 Reply with quote Back to top

Maybe i was not clear. I grouped those cases as monoactivations. I believe i said that activating ONLY rookie teams is also a problem.

As per the not enough people conundrum:
More people is also nice, but the critical mass is smaller if people dont monoactivate in contrast to the critical mass of monoactivators.

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Rawlf



Joined: Jul 15, 2007

Post   Posted: Nov 10, 2017 - 11:25 Reply with quote Back to top

bghandras wrote:
Activating a rookie team is also a monoactivation. The alleged monoactivator of this thread even pointed at that. So i guess monoactivation IS THE PROBLEM. The disagreement seems to be about to complain about rookie or old teams. Why not just acknowledge the fact that both monoactivation is a problem?


I would really like to help you understand, so you dont have to guess anymore.

If a draw fails due to a monoactivated rookie team, it is NOT because of the monoactivation but because of the rookie protection factor. Activating 100 similar teams would not have given that coach a pairing.

Maybe the other way around: find me a failed draw due to monoactivation where rookie protection plays no role.

Look, I'm not argueing about what people like or not or how they should behave or not or whatever. It is not my place to.

I'm just asking people to stop spreading a false statement that implies an unjustifiable accusation on certain people.
Cloggy



Joined: Sep 23, 2004

Post   Posted: Nov 10, 2017 - 11:27 Reply with quote Back to top

koadah wrote:


THE problem is that not enough people want to play Box.

Allowing one match to start with a 3 or 4 teams draw would get more games started.


Sorry to be pedantic, but those two statements contradict eachother Very Happy

I tend to agree with the first of the two. If a LOT of people want to play in the Box the problem with 4 applicant draws that don't lead to games goes away all on its own right?

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koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: Nov 10, 2017 - 11:52 Reply with quote Back to top

Cloggy wrote:
koadah wrote:


THE problem is that not enough people want to play Box.

Allowing one match to start with a 3 or 4 teams draw would get more games started.


Sorry to be pedantic, but those two statements contradict eachother Very Happy

I tend to agree with the first of the two. If a LOT of people want to play in the Box the problem with 4 applicant draws that don't lead to games goes away all on its own right?


The points don't contradict each other. Smile

If the first problem isn't fixed then the second can still help.

bghandras wrote:
Maybe i was not clear. I grouped those cases as monoactivations. I believe i said that activating ONLY rookie teams is also a problem.


Ah, OK. That is not the way the term is usually used. It is also the reason why the "you must activate n teams" argument won't necessarily work.

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DukeTyrion



Joined: Feb 18, 2004

Post   Posted: Nov 10, 2017 - 11:57 Reply with quote Back to top

Rawlf wrote:
bghandras wrote:
Activating a rookie team is also a monoactivation. The alleged monoactivator of this thread even pointed at that. So i guess monoactivation IS THE PROBLEM. The disagreement seems to be about to complain about rookie or old teams. Why not just acknowledge the fact that both monoactivation is a problem?


I would really like to help you understand, so you dont have to guess anymore.

If a draw fails due to a monoactivated rookie team, it is NOT because of the monoactivation but because of the rookie protection factor. Activating 100 similar teams would not have given that coach a pairing.

Maybe the other way around: find me a failed draw due to monoactivation where rookie protection plays no role.

Look, I'm not argueing about what people like or not or how they should behave or not or whatever. It is not my place to.

I'm just asking people to stop spreading a false statement that implies an unjustifiable accusation on certain people.


Why do you continue to talk complete sense in this thread, it will only confuse the masses Razz
pokrjax



Joined: Dec 01, 2014

Post   Posted: Nov 10, 2017 - 13:05 Reply with quote Back to top

MattDakka wrote:
Sometimes people don't manage their TV on purpose (like a certain Chaos Renegades coach), but they just lose players due to playing mismatches too often and their TV is decreased by the players' losses.
Mismatches like this:
https://fumbbl.com/p/match?id=3942303
and this:
https://fumbbl.com/p/match?id=3943174
2 mismatches in the last 3 matches played by my Lizardman team (30 games old so far, for the record, not 100 games old).
I'd like to increase the TV, but it's not that easy if I keep on playing mismatch after mismatch.
Maybe the scheduler matching will improve as the Box Trophy teams grow and get out of rookie protection.


How can a man with an AG3 Saurus be so unhappy? Wink
PurpleChest



Joined: Oct 25, 2003

Post   Posted: Nov 10, 2017 - 13:43 Reply with quote Back to top

I agree with Rawlf, Monoactivation may be a socially bad thing in the eyes of some, but it doesnt mathematically seem to affect the possibility of matches.

That said I defend the right of anyone to activate one team if they so wish. Despite the known issue with one coach. i would suggest the issue there is the monoactivation+Exploit build+Extreme minmaxing+Race misscosting+slow play. So, complex.

Rookie protection rocks, and I would rather see a draw not happen for 4 coaches than go back to 1200 TV 3 game old teams facing 1800 TV 100 game veterans. Or, more commonly, 1200TV 3 game old teams facing 1350TV 400 game old teams with minmaxed uber builds.

Removing Rookie protection would actually encourage Mono Activation of older bigger teams, as they can be more assured of getting a game.

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MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Nov 10, 2017 - 14:19 Reply with quote Back to top

My concern with monoactivation is when a coach monoactivates only high TV teams or an extremely minmaxed team with a certain roster, because it may create unfair/boring matches for the teams out of rookie protection yet not developed enough.
Black Box should arrange balanced games between evenly matched teams, otherwise we could throw to the wind the TV matching and just pair randomly the teams any time instead of every 15 minutes, that way, if I have to waste 1 hour locked into a TV gap mismatch, I would save the 15 minutes waiting for the draw at least.
In my opinion is better to not find a game than find a TV gap mismatch.
pokrjax wrote:

How can a man with an AG3 Saurus be so unhappy? Wink

Because he's a massive TV bloat. Razz

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koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: Nov 10, 2017 - 15:00 Reply with quote Back to top

LOL. You can't have it both ways. You don't want experienced mid/low TV teams to be matched vs high TV teams. You also don't want experienced mid/low TV teams to be matched with inexperienced teams.

The more restrictions you have, the fewer matches you'll get.

We've just had an upswing in the number of teams activating. If you are still having problems getting matches then it looks bleak for certain times of the day.

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MenonaLoco



Joined: Jan 05, 2016

Post   Posted: Nov 10, 2017 - 16:17 Reply with quote Back to top

Rookie protection?? Hä? Any rookie should be well adviced that box can be tough and he should go to the faculty first, 145 club, etc.
Not every corner has to be rookie friendly. Blackbox, the name alone suggests dark realms of coaching legends, slaughtering some teams n dreams...
Gartch



Joined: Sep 07, 2012

Post   Posted: Nov 10, 2017 - 16:31 Reply with quote Back to top

PurpleChest wrote:
Rookie protection rocks, and I would rather see a draw not happen for 4 coaches than go back to 1200 TV 3 game old teams facing 1800 TV 100 game veterans. Or, more commonly, 1200TV 3 game old teams facing 1350TV 400 game old teams with minmaxed uber builds.

Removing Rookie protection would actually encourage Mono Activation of older bigger teams, as they can be more assured of getting a game.

I completly agree with that.

I first began to play here on fumbbl in Black Box, because I was tired of Cyanide's Blood Bowl 1 drawing system with no protection system so a 0 match TV1000 team could face a TV2200 team.
These games are boring, I prefer to not play than play this kind of match.
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