DarthPhysicist
Joined: Jun 14, 2015
|
 Posted:
Jan 05, 2018 - 00:12 |
 
|
I agree with most of this with the exception to the comment about Box. I personally have only played League games and Box as Ranked is a bit awkward for a newcomer as well as being subject to pickers when you are learning the interface. The complaints about Box are no different than the complaints about BB2 COL/CCL and they do just fine (in fact I believe that's where the most people play).
I agree wholeheartedly with the "big red report button" though. That should totally be there. I had to report either my first or second game and I remember that it was a bit of a chore and I felt like even though I was the one in the right (my opponent never showed up for the Box game after repeated PMs over days), it felt like I was the one in the wrong (perception only maybe, but that's how it felt). A simple state the problem box with a submit that is super easy to find would solve the problem. |
_________________
Using derivative humor since 2005.
 |
|
ramchop
Joined: Oct 12, 2013
|
| almic85 wrote: | | Cyanide is always going to beat us at an auto scheduled TV matched environment simply because of the size of our user base va their user base. |
"always" is a long time. I feel Fumbbl is likely to outlast Cyanide.
I wasn't here back in the Fumbbl heyday. So maybe I'm not best placed to judge. However, I feel the decline is slow. Growth would be good, but Fumbbl is still ticking along nicely and is not going to disappear anytime soon.
Leagues like SWL hit a near high in numbers not too long ago, and are healthy.
Box is active, it struggles in some timezones, but many feel it is a better system than Ranked. I'd strongly argue against its removal.
Although the client doesn't have the fancy graphics, I believe it allows way more customisation than Cyanide (bio, portraits...). You can tell a story with your team, be creative, people like that. |
|
|
almic85
Joined: May 25, 2009
|
| Posted:
Jan 05, 2018 - 02:35 |
|
I do understand why people like Box and it’s not that I don’t like the idea, the format or the execution of it. If it had been around before Ranked I would probably be saying Ranked is the division that needs to go.
My main gripe with Box (and also with the current Ranked game finder) is that it reduces the number of personal interactions you need to have with your opponent in order to play and that to me reduces the amount of pleasure I get out of playing Bloodbowl and in my opinion reduces the amount of community spirit with the site.
If I wanted to play an opponent that didn’t want to chat I would buy BB2 and play the AI (or find an Italian or Spanish coach as they don’t usually like chatting either).
As I said in my long winded post the main draw card here is COMMUNITY, and that dies if there is no human interaction needed to find a game on this site.
@Ramchop You are right that FUMBBL will likely outlast Cyanides leagues as at some point the commercial reality of supporting a commercial game with a dying user base will set take hold and either BB3 will be released with all new graphics to boost sales and stay afloat or the servers will just be shutdown.
The question is what do we do in the mean time while we are at an all time low of games played (equal to the crash in 2010 and the early figures from 2003) in order to claw back some market share of the player base and make sure we survive the lean time. |
_________________
SWL the place to be.
If you're interested join the Fringe |
|
ramchop
Joined: Oct 12, 2013
|
| almic85 wrote: | | The question is what do we do in the mean time while we are at an all time low of games played (equal to the crash in 2010 and the early figures from 2003) in order to claw back some market share of the player base and make sure we survive the lean time. |
Work on the TT community. Sure there may be some who stumble across fumbbl without any knowledge of blood bowl, but the majority will be those who at one time have played table top.
As a video game fumbbl won't compete. Market share is the wrong term, especially considering IP issues.
Share the fluff. Revel in the insane events that can happen in blood bowl (and can be shared with images, videos, talking to people). Show off your legends, table toppers may never have had one.
Fumbbl is a great community. At the core though, primarily it is one person's hobby. Survive the lean times? Patreon |
|
|
JellyBelly
Joined: Jul 08, 2009
|
| Posted:
Jan 05, 2018 - 05:56 |
|
I agree with almic85, that the biggest hit in numbers came when the Cyanide game was released. FUMBBL lost a lot of players at that point, to the alternative with the nice, shiny graphics.
| almic85 wrote: | | @Ramchop You are right that FUMBBL will likely outlast Cyanides leagues as at some point the commercial reality of supporting a commercial game with a dying user base will set take hold and either BB3 will be released with all new graphics to boost sales and stay afloat or the servers will just be shutdown. |
I agree with this too. Unlike FUMBBL, Cyanide are driven by commercial motives. At some point in the future, like most online multiplayer games, they are going to reach a point where it's not worth their while to keep their servers running and they will go cold. At that point, I would expect a large number of players to come back over to FUMBBL. Also, bear in mind that their servers do not operate on a subscription. They only make money when someone buys the full game or one of their team expansions. There are only going to be so many times they can repackage and flog what is essentially the same game. The same reason that GW can't get away with releasing a new BB boxed set every 2 years.
It might take another 5-10 years, but at some point it will happen and people will come back. |
_________________
"Opinions are like arseholes, everybody's got them and they all stink." - The protagonist, Fallout 2
"Go for the eyes, Boo! Go for the eyes!!"  |
|
garyt1
Joined: Mar 12, 2011
|
| Posted:
Jan 05, 2018 - 07:36 |
|
That is a long time to wait Jellybelly. Plus if that game goes down then the major route for new blood to FUMBBL (assuming not yet another BB TT release) goes. FUMBBL could do with a big boost long before then. As the source board game ages it will always be tough though. The customizable league stuff last year should have helped but both that and the new BB tabletop don't seem to have had an obvious impact despite all the new TT players.
As with many others I think a scalable client would be a great thing to have. It doesn't help lure people who want 3D but it certainly improves user friendliness.
No doubt that FUMBBL is a great site. I can see the open source programming being of help but Christer has said many times that it would take him a lot of time to introduce each individual who says they want to help, and then they may not contribute for long. So wasting his time. Plus what happens when someone programmes something that crashes the site? Or the client. Needs testing etc.
People being friendly to new players and posters is of course important. A pity NAF can't promote it more but fumbbl can't be seen as official BB. |
_________________
“A wise man can learn more from a foolish question than a fool can learn from a wise answer.” |
|
dorfeus
Joined: Nov 18, 2005
|
| Posted:
Jan 05, 2018 - 08:29 |
|
It's all about adverticing and keeping players in with community and leagues - and special stuff we can provied with those two like Secret League and draft leagues.
So.. who will produce a commented replay of FUMBBL Cup Final to Youtube -preferrably with Fumbbl elite coatch. In commentary the could be talk and team analysis, choices made, positioning, dice and all other interesting stuff. The Sage and others are doing that with BB2 tournament finals. |
|
|
sann0638
Joined: Aug 09, 2010
|
| Posted:
Jan 05, 2018 - 09:17 |
|
| dorfeus wrote: | | So.. who will produce a commented replay of FUMBBL Cup Final to Youtube -preferrably with Fumbbl elite coatch. In commentary the could be talk and team analysis, choices made, positioning, dice and all other interesting stuff. The Sage and others are doing that with BB2 tournament finals. |
Good idea  |
_________________
NAF Ex-President
Founder of SAWBBL, Wiltshire's BB League on Facebook and Discord |
|
KFoged
Joined: Nov 28, 2004
|
 Posted:
Jan 05, 2018 - 09:44 |
|
| sann0638 wrote: | | dorfeus wrote: | | So.. who will produce a commented replay of FUMBBL Cup Final to Youtube -preferrably with Fumbbl elite coatch. In commentary the could be talk and team analysis, choices made, positioning, dice and all other interesting stuff. The Sage and others are doing that with BB2 tournament finals. |
Good idea |
Sounds like a job for you sann0638  |
_________________
 |
|
sonrises
Joined: May 02, 2013
|
| Posted:
Jan 05, 2018 - 11:42 |
|
Nice thread! Some very good ideas in it too!
I don't think FUMBBL needs big changes but some sort of make up wouldn't hurt.
Is current Front page https://fumbbl.com/p/news the best to direct newcomers to relevant info to get started? rather than News and Blogs, what about a Create your team buttom that leads to the team generator proposed? or a ... New to Blood bowl, we help you learn! click here! (leading to 145)? NAF online Click here?
What other strenghts FUMBBL has? What makes Fumbbl unique and diffrent? Custom Leagues, Tournaments and Their history... Let's analyse, reshape contents and ... to the Front page!! 1 click away only.
o/ |
|
|
JellyBelly
Joined: Jul 08, 2009
|
| Posted:
Jan 05, 2018 - 12:18 |
|
| garyt1 wrote: | | That is a long time to wait Jellybelly. Plus if that game goes down then the major route for new blood to FUMBBL (assuming not yet another BB TT release) goes. |
I don't agree that somehow we are dependent on Cyanide for bringing new players to FUMBBL. FUMBBL was larger in the past, before BB2 existed, and players managed to find the site just fine then. Looking at the history, Cyanide is the biggest reason for our drop in numbers. They have taken more players away than they have brought here. They have not done FUMBBL any favors.
FUMBBL effectively provided them with a ready-made community of people wanting to play BB online, which they could easily harvest. |
_________________
"Opinions are like arseholes, everybody's got them and they all stink." - The protagonist, Fallout 2
"Go for the eyes, Boo! Go for the eyes!!" |
|
dorfeus
Joined: Nov 18, 2005
|
| Posted:
Jan 05, 2018 - 12:24 |
|
Right now we can implement these helps for new people only to a external site, perhaps to a WIKI page.
If we take intiative from Christer to our own hads perhaps he will later in time link this possible wiki page to front site or use the content creted on the main site if he wishes so. |
|
|
MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
|
| Posted:
Jan 05, 2018 - 14:21 |
|
| almic85 wrote: | | I do understand why people like Box and it’s not that I don’t like the idea, the format or the execution of it. If it had been around before Ranked I would probably be saying Ranked is the division that needs to go. |
Well, I guess that the reason Ranked was before Box it's because developing a matchmaking system is more complex than simply using PM to arrange games.
The fact that a game is arranged via matchmaking doesn't necessarily mean that the opponent will be silent in game.
| almic85 wrote: | | My main gripe with Box (and also with the current Ranked game finder) is that it reduces the number of personal interactions you need to have with your opponent in order to play and that to me reduces the amount of pleasure I get out of playing Bloodbowl and in my opinion reduces the amount of community spirit with the site. |
The "personal interactions" may lead to blatant cherrypicking, so they are not necessarily a positive aspect if you are interested in a fair game or you are new to the game and can't figure which the fair offers are.
| almic85 wrote: | | If I wanted to play an opponent that didn’t want to chat I would buy BB2 and play the AI (or find an Italian or Spanish coach as they don’t usually like chatting either). |
I like chatting a lot, especially when my dice are bad.
About Box, minmaxing and bash-heavy ratio: it's true that in the past Box had several minmaxed teams and cpomb was common, but after po removal things have improved greatly, and the Steel Trophy has increased the racial variety. |
|
|
DarthPhysicist
Joined: Jun 14, 2015
|
| Posted:
Jan 05, 2018 - 15:16 |
|
After BB2 there will be a BB3 if there is any appetite for it (which is no different really than the current situation), but if you really want more users, you need a mobile app. Trouble with that is fumbbl would run into license issues.
Fumbbl is more a community than a game, which is its strong point. A good community will attract the like minded if they aren't driven away. I think the only thing that can really be done is focus on the community and hope that the new arrivals stay (make it as nice as possible here so they want to stay). Even though Crister runs the place, it's on everyone to be good stewards of the site.
There are some pretty foul leagues here (perhaps a minority, but they do exist) and a risk is they are little isolated cancers that fester and drive people away. I would suggest "FUMBBL approved" Leagues if they don't exist which are regularly scheduled leagues which the commissioners agree to a high standard of sportsmanship, and somehow elevate these above the rest of the "looking for players" posts (either a special section of the forum or something). The sportsmanship I'm talking about is purely player on player interaction, I'm not talking fouls or anything like that. |
_________________
Using derivative humor since 2005.
|
|
JackassRampant
Joined: Feb 26, 2011
|
| Posted:
Jan 05, 2018 - 15:35 |
|
I really like Sonrises' idea. Change the front page to be more newcomer-friendly. Include links to important places for new coaches to check out (145 Club, Faculty, Discord, etc.). That, a player name suggestion (could be the Journeyman name generator), and an improved gamefinder experience (got ideas, but there are lots of ways to do it), would be enough to help retain any new blood we drag in.
As far as dragging in that new blood: preach it. I see DarthPhysicist's concern re: advertising and GW, but 1) FUMBBL has no advertising budget, and 2) no amount of word-of-mouth from fanatical FUMBBL coaches will ever trip that wire.
What about Christer appointing someone to take over the FUMBBL Facebook page? Right now, if you go there, you just get to scroll through endless "is FUMBBL down?" posts. But if those were cleared out and the latest news was posted there, then it would be awesome. |
_________________
Lude enixe, obliviscatur timor. |
|
|
|
| |
Advice tabletop tour...
Search
