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sann0638



Joined: Aug 09, 2010

Post   Posted: Jan 06, 2018 - 10:38 Reply with quote Back to top

KFoged wrote:
sann0638 wrote:
dorfeus wrote:
So.. who will produce a commented replay of FUMBBL Cup Final to Youtube -preferrably with Fumbbl elite coatch. In commentary the could be talk and team analysis, choices made, positioning, dice and all other interesting stuff. The Sage and others are doing that with BB2 tournament finals.


Good idea Smile


Sounds like a job for you sann0638 Very Happy


Well, hopefully some of these would suit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=reg423DNBLc&list=PL66e87BczVUDJCQ9_P_a4t11pJ9s2wAun

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Sp00keh



Joined: Dec 06, 2011

Post   Posted: Jan 07, 2018 - 14:10 Reply with quote Back to top

if you've ever played a blizzard game recently through the battlenet app, you'll appreciate how easy it is to get started

hearthstone is a good example as it even has a 'innkeeper' bot who you play some basic instructional games with first
overwatch also has an intro mode.
generally the whole process is very slick and streamlined and they've carefully minimised the "exit points"


fumbbl.com isn't a friendly, easy site. there's stuff spread out all over the place and it doesn't link together in a particularly cohesive way


i'd really like to see a 'new player' button that takes you through the whole process, can be resumed, leads you into making an account, (automates) making a team, reading the rules, then explains match making
Gozer_the_Gozerian



Joined: May 30, 2015

Post   Posted: Jan 07, 2018 - 14:36 Reply with quote Back to top

I have only been around for 2-3 years but I've had several people tell me they were quitting. A couple were because of the whole 'Banjo' renaming thing, but the rest were usually complaining about the RNG. One heard an admin making a joke on Discord about how for certain players any single dice over 4 was rerolled, and they were convinced that was happening to them. I've tried to talk some of them out of it, but it never worked.
Nextflux



Joined: Jan 22, 2008

Post   Posted: Jan 07, 2018 - 15:00 Reply with quote Back to top

We could hold several different surveys on different topics on how to improve the site, also on more controversial matters, like the auto-renaming policy and other suggestions on how to improve the site, any other topics really, as to get a public opinion on what people like.
If so, just make sure the surveys are good enough, with multiple choices (maybe up to 5) as base material to move on with.
If we get some suggestions to work with, maybe Christer and others will take that into consideration?
JackassRampant



Joined: Feb 26, 2011

Post   Posted: Jan 07, 2018 - 15:49 Reply with quote Back to top

My TT league has 9 coaches, plus myself.

One made a FUMBBL account, but can't figure out how to get the client past his security. Not being techy enough to help him too much, I suggested he go to Discord, but this was his exit point, at least for now.

One wants to FUMBBL but isn't good enough at TT yet. He'll be on FUMBBL, at least intermittently, in a few months.

One is severely dyslexic and will never be able to play FUMBBL. He could probably pick up BB2, but joining this community is beyond his ability.

One is a real-time gamer, only slumming with us turn-based types cuz it seems to be popular, and his patented fast-twitch reflexes and multiple mental countdowns and other tricks don't help him here. He may come around eventually.

One can't get past the graphics; he'll play BB2, but not FUMBBL.

Two I haven't pitched yet: I'll let the game grow on them.

Two have no time for such things as online Blood Bowl.

We have a good chance of getting one coach, and a poor but real chance of picking up maybe two or three. Is this typical?

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DarthPhysicist



Joined: Jun 14, 2015

Post   Posted: Jan 07, 2018 - 15:52 Reply with quote Back to top

JackassRampant wrote:

One can't get past the graphics; he'll play BB2, but not FUMBBL.


I have ten coworkers who fall into this category. They all play regularly and heavily in my league, but I tried to get them to use FUMBBL before (so we could all learn the interface together) and only one of them played a match, never to play again (and he beat me, which he never does...).

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Brainsaw



Joined: Sep 27, 2005

Post   Posted: Jan 07, 2018 - 18:20 Reply with quote Back to top

The source of all evil: The RNG! i always knew it!
And Rules! Not only stick to them, you have to read them!
.. and no Graphics are a Problem too...

It explains, why mostly the older types stick to fumbbl. We were used to read and care more about the game, than about graphics. And if things go down, we search the reason not only in the RNG....

Reading all the posts, i still think taking newbies by the hand of an experienced coach, will be the easiest and most efficient way to get things started.

A Site integrated chat, precreated Teams, a (video) guided Tour, a (video) starter Guide would also help. Thing is: all these Steps require work.
ramchop



Joined: Oct 12, 2013

Post   Posted: Jan 07, 2018 - 20:56 Reply with quote Back to top

How easy do we want to make it? A barrier to entry to ward off some of the worst elements doesn't seem too bad sometimes Smile
sann0638



Joined: Aug 09, 2010

Post   Posted: Jan 07, 2018 - 21:09 Reply with quote Back to top

This is similar to a conversation that is sometimes had in the NAF - no membership fee would mean that anyone could join, but then it is good to have people committed enough to pay the princely sum of $10/year.

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MonkeyMan576



Joined: Jul 02, 2008

Post   Posted: Jan 07, 2018 - 21:15 Reply with quote Back to top

I prefer fumbbl because I know I am playing against some of the best players in the world, even though I might lose a lot, and I know there is a community that cares about the site and isn't going to quit games on me. Honestly I could care less about the lack of graphics. Of course, I am 41 years old and am used to playing games when bad graphics were the norm, but I can understand why that might be hard for new players.
grant85



Joined: Dec 19, 2005

Post   Posted: Jan 07, 2018 - 22:27 Reply with quote Back to top

Sp00keh wrote:
if you've ever played a blizzard game recently through the battlenet app, you'll appreciate how easy it is to get started

hearthstone is a good example as it even has a 'innkeeper' bot who you play some basic instructional games with first
overwatch also has an intro mode.
generally the whole process is very slick and streamlined and they've carefully minimised the "exit points"


fumbbl.com isn't a friendly, easy site. there's stuff spread out all over the place and it doesn't link together in a particularly cohesive way


i'd really like to see a 'new player' button that takes you through the whole process, can be resumed, leads you into making an account, (automates) making a team, reading the rules, then explains match making


yes, blizzard does amazing work. but fumbbl is free and run by mainly one man with additional volunteers. blizzard has offices all across North America, Europe and Asia. Reality check.
JellyBelly



Joined: Jul 08, 2009

Post   Posted: Jan 08, 2018 - 12:48 Reply with quote Back to top

DarthPhysicist wrote:
JackassRampant wrote:

One can't get past the graphics; he'll play BB2, but not FUMBBL.


I have ten coworkers who fall into this category. They all play regularly and heavily in my league, but I tried to get them to use FUMBBL before (so we could all learn the interface together) and only one of them played a match, never to play again (and he beat me, which he never does...).


It was my best mate that got me in to FUMBBL in the first place. We were both in to GW at school and he suggested I try out FUMBBL. I got hooked pretty quickly; however, he quit about 6 months after I joined, swearing blind that rng was rigged. That was back in the old days of the Skijunkie client. I have tried to lure him back in recent years, with tales of the new(er) FFB client, improved rng and Secret League, but he isn't really interested. He plays his online BB on BB2 these days.

Having BB2 as such an easy alternative obviously makes things difficult for FUMBBL. FUMBBL doens't have much time to make an impression - if a new player has a bad experience for any reason, then they will say "screw this, I'll go and play on BB2, where they have better graphics anyway." Somehow, we need to highlight the reasons why someone should play here, rather than BB2. This site really can't afford anything that makes it more difficult or sets up a 'barrier to entry' for newcomers.

I introduced one of my other old mates from school to FUMBBL and he seems to have taken to it pretty well. He's now a fairly regular player and plays several games per week (Chrisratbane - you might have seen him around).

My brother-in-law is also quite into gaming and I tried to get him in to Blood Bowl, suggesting that he try BB2 on Steam. He did buy the game and try it, but he thought it was rubbish. I think perhaps he just didn't appreciate the luck element and thought it was all a bit random. I might try to work on him some more at some point Smile

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neubau



Joined: Nov 12, 2016

Post   Posted: Jan 08, 2018 - 13:53 Reply with quote Back to top

we had a short chat in the secret league discord about this thread and most of the quality of life changes like one (or few) click team creation and randon name generators are good ideas, but thats nothing that puts fumbbl over its competitor.

fumbbl's main advantage is the community, be it the various leagues, the dozens of discord servers, the ingame spec chat, the amazing tournament scene, various meta groups like ARR etc., thats what we should promote. the main fumbbl discord server is somehow very well hidden and a bit lackluster in terms of content. theres definitely room for improvement here.

the burden to play your first game here if you are new is pretty overwhelming, this does need streamlining. turning the 145 league into its own division would help new coaches a lot. rbthma and the crew are doing a great job of nurturing players into fumbbl (half of the incoming cibbl members come directly from 145), but even getting into 145 is pretty tricky, with creating your team, applying to the league, messaging others for scheduling and so on. their discord server made it a bit easier for all parties, but having a proper newbie division, maybe with an integrated chat or a direct link to the 145 discord server would be a huge plus to get new players in.

tldr: turn 145 into its own division so newbies know where to go straight away; better discord integration to promote the community

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Throweck



Joined: Feb 23, 2013

Post   Posted: Jan 08, 2018 - 14:22
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I still think we have to distinguish between the fact the FUMBBL is designed to be a TT emulator and BB2 is more of a video game. I find it hard to compare sometimes I guess.

145 does bring coaches in for sure and I saw that under my tenure. It's own space would be good.

We are always going to have people that stay and people that go. Making more people stay than go is the trick. How? The reasons are too vast to address individually so there is not a 'one answer solves all questions' thing we can do.

It would be good to ask questions to the people that left to identify issues (We have had some from the coaches that know some of these) but this won't really have the desired effect as they have already left! Smile
koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: Jan 08, 2018 - 15:48 Reply with quote Back to top

Part of the problem with the old Academy division is that there were far too few games.

People generally couldn't just roll up and get a game whenever they wanted. That was with the old gamefinder where you could see who was LFG. With the new game finder you cannot see who is waiting unless you put up teams (with the right TV) in the right division.

Personally, I don't play many games. If I saw someone waiting in Academy with 0,1,2 etc games I could offer to get them started. Sometimes only play a half just so that they could get the feel of the game/client.

Old gamefinder + chat was much better for this.
A team generator would also be good as the helper may not have a TV1000 team and it is a PITA to create one just to play one half.

Though you did get cherrypickers even in Academy.

Having teams in the league division can be confusing but it does give a better chance of getting a game.
Not being able to play against teams of different rulesets does reduce you match opportunities.

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