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thoralf



Joined: Mar 06, 2008

Post   Posted: Jan 08, 2019 - 16:04 Reply with quote Back to top

Desultory wrote:
I completely agree and support everything Dakka wrote.


And so we have another long quote and another bit of whining for a mere +1.

Matt always wanted "clearcut" rulz. He never will obtain satisfaction for the simple reason that rulz don't apply themselves. There will always be a judgment call.

After all these years, Matt still can't distinguish what should belong to a public forum discussion and what should be settled directly with the relevant parties.

And then people wonder why this game is niche.

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MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Jan 08, 2019 - 16:09 Reply with quote Back to top

The relevant parties, if you mean my opponent, read and ignored the private message.
My public discussion is a consequence of a lack of rules enforcement.
I prefer to spend my time playing rather than writing on forums, but I'm forced to report what happened by the slim hope of changing things or at least, to inform other coaches that they should not expect the rules to be enforced if their opponents leave.
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Jan 08, 2019 - 16:16 Reply with quote Back to top

Christer wrote:
MattDakka wrote:
Thanks, I'm not mad at you, Throweck, by the way.
I just didn't like how the situation was managed, nor I demanded to fix immediately the concession bug, I would have waited with my team stuck forever if that was necessary to punish the leaver but the game was cancelled against my will, but anyway, although I do really love BB and the community around here, I think that I should blame myself if I found again a leaver, because the bad experience would repeat itself.
It's true that the community is great overall, but I might find the odd bad apple again and without tools the bad apple can't be punished and the game and my time would be lost.


Matt,

Looking at the issue specifically, it does appear that cancelling the game was a mistake and that you should have been given the option to cancel the game, push it through at its current point or simply wait until the fix for forced concessions was in place (the last option doesn't have a deadline; see my latest blog post as to why [shameless self-promotion]).

Maybe there was a private conversation between the two of you, but either way. It appears to have been cleared out regardless. Glad you're being a sport about it.

For the record, I asked not to cancel the game to the admins in my PM, because I suspected that my opponent left on purpose, when my game got cancelled against my will I didn't like it, hence my reaction, but it's just one reason.
The admins would have surely awarded the concession after 3 days, with the concession button.
So, the main reason is the lack of concession tool, that I know it's not possible to fix for the moment and I know I can't ask for it to be fixed, so my personal workaround is not playing until will be possible again to award concessions.
Anyway, thanks for the clarification, Christer!
I like to know the rules well.
Throweck



Joined: Feb 23, 2013

Post   Posted: Jan 08, 2019 - 16:22 Reply with quote Back to top

Well, we all make mistakes.

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MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Jan 08, 2019 - 16:27 Reply with quote Back to top

Yes, no problems with that. Smile I made and make a lot!
thoralf



Joined: Mar 06, 2008

Post   Posted: Jan 08, 2019 - 16:32 Reply with quote Back to top

MattDakka wrote:
My public discussion is a consequence of a lack of rules enforcement.


You omit your own inability to let things go, Matt.

Again and again.

Just look at how you *still* insist in presenting the record. Do you really think it's missing?

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Last edited by thoralf on Jan 08, 2019 - 16:34; edited 1 time in total
Dominik



Joined: Oct 29, 2004

Post   Posted: Jan 08, 2019 - 16:33 Reply with quote Back to top

Christer wrote:
Desultory wrote:
I am sick and tired of the admins lack of caring and lack of professionalism.


Desultory wrote:
I don't know what insult you refer to. I don't believe I ever directly insulted you. I don't think I was ever impolite to you. We haven't had any correspondence other than what you posted. I believe it's the first time you ever addressed me.


And yes, this was the first message you ever sent to me. Your first message was saying that the admin team, which includes me, lacks caring and lacks professionalism. A staff team that I hand picked and trust.


In all honest and respect for your great effort that you put in FUMBBL, one certain administrator lacks politeness or has at least lost it after that many years of being in an official function and dealing with thousands of inquiries.
But if I have to choose between a polite yet frequently inactive administrator and a grumpy always-online administrator, I'd choose the second one.
So maybe this explains why you stick to him for all these years.


Last edited by Dominik on Jan 08, 2019 - 16:35; edited 1 time in total
Desultory



Joined: Jun 24, 2008

Post   Posted: Jan 08, 2019 - 16:34 Reply with quote Back to top

Christer wrote:
Desultory wrote:
I am sick and tired of the admins lack of caring and lack of professionalism.


Desultory wrote:
I don't know what insult you refer to. I don't believe I ever directly insulted you. I don't think I was ever impolite to you. We haven't had any correspondence other than what you posted. I believe it's the first time you ever addressed me.


And yes, this was the first message you ever sent to me. Your first message was saying that the admin team, which includes me, lacks caring and lacks professionalism. A staff team that I hand picked and trust.

There must be a difference in the culture between you and me, because in my mind that's pretty insulting.

And yes, you'll probably respond with that you didn't mean me, or that you said "directly". And now that I've said that you'll say I'm projecting and it's insulting to you that I would think that of you.


I'm sorry if my comment insulted you, and yes I didn't mean you obviously because we have never had contact. I was only referring to Lorebass and jarvis_pants, and in hindsight I should have specifically referred to them as opposed to 'admins'.

In hindsight I should have sent you a supporting message before, but I didn't want to bother you until I experienced this saga.

I'm sure these guys must have some redeeming characteristics, but from my experience of them, they wouldn't be my first choice to represent my site.
Not that you seem to care about money, but these guys cost you donations from me. I would be surprised if their attitudes haven't driven others away.

If the concessions were automated somehow, the stress and problems of having to deal with admins having a bad day wouldn't even exist.


Throweck wrote:
Welcome back Matt.

I apologised yesterday. We understand your argument. Realistically, does it REALLY matter that much to the point you aren't willing to play here anymore? Is it that bad in comparison to other stuff? If I only had that one thing to get that upset about I'd be a really happy man Smile

Is it time to acknowledge what happened, reflect and learn from it? I have.

Let's leave it there shall we and concentrate on improving the site as a whole as a group of people that share a very niche love (including above issues).


Christer wrote:


The thing is, this stuff never ends because it's apparently *very* difficult to drop things. May I remind you that this was in 2017?


Personally, If the attitude of the management is to address problems that I find important with 'does it really matter', which is basically the same as 'shit happens', or similarly "it's apparently *very* difficult to drop things." then I find that a sad state of affairs that is definitely worth leaving for.

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MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Jan 08, 2019 - 16:36 Reply with quote Back to top

thoralf wrote:
MattDakka wrote:
My public discussion is a consequence of a lack of rules enforcement.


You omit your own inability to let things go, Matt.

Again and again.

Just look at how you *still* insist in presenting the record. Do you really think it's missing?

You omit the inability of following the rules by my opponent too, but I understand you don't care about your games and rules enforcement as much as I do.
Also, since Black Box is a competitive ranked division and not unranked League division, expecting to finish games is a reasonable expectation, as reading the site rules suggests.
If I wanted to play with less committment I would do it in League division.


Last edited by MattDakka on Jan 08, 2019 - 16:40; edited 1 time in total
Wozzaa



Joined: Apr 23, 2016

Post   Posted: Jan 08, 2019 - 16:39 Reply with quote Back to top

'After all these years, Matt still can't distinguish what should belong to a public forum discussion and what should be settled directly with the relevant parties.'

Lets not be naive, Matt knows full well what should belong in public forums and what should be settled privately. He had alterior motives other than voicing a greivance. He wanted to make a point and a stand. He wanted to make the administrators look bad. He wanted to educate those of us that read his original post with his passive aggresive ideas.

Why else would someone put this stuff in a public forum?

Unfortunately, the whole thing has made him look petulant and childish.
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Jan 08, 2019 - 16:43 Reply with quote Back to top

Wozzaa wrote:
Unfortunately, the whole thing has made him look petulant and childish.

When there is an issue, some people tend to be petulant, other people just remain silent and accept the status quo.
Maybe things don't change because too many people passively accept the status quo.
Anyway, yes, sorry, posting on a public site forum issues experienced in the site was clearly not a good idea.
I should have kept what happened hidden, without disturbing the sleep of the silent part of the community.
Wozzaa



Joined: Apr 23, 2016

Post   Posted: Jan 08, 2019 - 16:48 Reply with quote Back to top

Desultory wrote:

Personally, If the attitude of the management is to address problems that I find important with 'does it really matter', which is basically the same as 'shit happens', or similarly "it's apparently *very* difficult to drop things." then I find that a sad state of affairs that is definitely worth leaving for.


You keep talking about leaving. But here you are. Writing on forums after two years.

Off ya pop. You've made your perspective known.
thoralf



Joined: Mar 06, 2008

Post   Posted: Jan 08, 2019 - 16:50 Reply with quote Back to top

MattDakka wrote:
You omit the inability of following the rules by my opponent too, but I understand you don't care about your games and rules enforcement as much as I do.


The first point is wrong. Throweck said enough on this already, so there's no need to return to *any* detail in public.

The last point is wrong too, but more importantly it's irrelevant to what I'm saying. Which is that once again you exploit a topic to air personal grievances.

The point in the middle is also irrelevant, and none of your business.

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Wozzaa



Joined: Apr 23, 2016

Post   Posted: Jan 08, 2019 - 16:52 Reply with quote Back to top

MattDakka wrote:
Wozzaa wrote:
Unfortunately, the whole thing has made him look petulant and childish.

When there is an issue, some people tend to be petulant, other people just remain silent and accept the status quo.
Maybe things don't change because too many people passively accept the status quo.
Anyway, yes, sorry, posting on a public site forum issues experienced in the site was clearly not a good idea.
I should have kept what happened hidden, without disturbing the sleep of the silent part of the community.


Ah, passive aggressive again.

Perhaps a positive spin wouldve been better e.g. 'Ive had problems recently with someone leavong a game, are forced concessions possible?'

'No, (see reasons outlined by Christer)'

'Thats a shame. Thank you for your time'

All over PM.

What is interesting with this approach is we arrive at the exact same place.
Throweck



Joined: Feb 23, 2013

Post   Posted: Jan 08, 2019 - 17:05 Reply with quote Back to top

@Desultory - you have only taken part of that sentence from me to suit your needs. The context is completely different if you read it again. Compared to other things in life, does it really matter? As said previously, I think the premise is a valid point.

I don’t understand the reaction but we have to put that down to that we are different I guess.

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