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Catalyst32



Joined: Jul 14, 2008

Post   Posted: Jan 12, 2018 - 23:45 Reply with quote Back to top

JellyBelly wrote:
Catalyst32 wrote:
The chest pounding would all go away if you combined them into 1 division. In truth... you have all but combined them NOW in every way but the most important way possible.


Many of the 'chest pounders' (aka: people who don't agree with you) would probably go away, leaving the FUMBBL player pool even more diminished. Sounds great for the future of the site Smile



I seriously doubt they would leave the only place they can pound their chest about how PURE they [play the game DESPITE the impurity of having to play a few UNLEAN teams that bothered to play in a Openly scheduled game 1 or 2 times.
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Jan 13, 2018 - 00:02 Reply with quote Back to top

Catalyst32 wrote:

As for the rest you are just WRONG and if nothing else playing your BOX team in Ranked tournaments should teach you that... to a point.

What playing in FC taught me is that the teams I faced there from Ranked were generally higher TV and better developed than mine.
Catalyst32 wrote:
I could get 5 easy or lucky games in a row if I was in Box... and then face you after the 5 worst games ever... but BOTH teas would be TV1400... and it would be as FAIR as any other matches you get.

If you can choose your games it's more likely that your 5 games will be easier than 5 games chosen by an impartial scheduler, unless you accept to play whatever game is offered to you.
Catalyst32



Joined: Jul 14, 2008

Post   Posted: Jan 13, 2018 - 00:08 Reply with quote Back to top

MattDakka wrote:
Catalyst32 wrote:

As for the rest you are just WRONG and if nothing else playing your BOX team in Ranked tournaments should teach you that... to a point.

What playing in FC taught me is that the teams I faced there from Ranked were generally higher TV and better developed than mine.
Catalyst32 wrote:
I could get 5 easy or lucky games in a row if I was in Box... and then face you after the 5 worst games ever... but BOTH teas would be TV1400... and it would be as FAIR as any other matches you get.

If you can choose your games it's more likely that your 5 games will be easier than 5 games chosen by an impartial scheduler, unless you accept to play whatever game is offered to you.


But with what I am saying YOU get to set up an "easy" game if you want to also.
OR
You can REALLY be PROUD about how PURE your team is... and it is even MORE PURE because the temptation of the easy game is available... the ultimate unclean sin is there tempting your PURITY.
You are making argument you cannot win because you are wrong Matt. Just accept it.
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Jan 13, 2018 - 00:18 Reply with quote Back to top

Catalyst32 wrote:

But with what I am saying YOU get to set up an "easy" game if you want to also.

Considering the selfish human nature, most coaches are not going to play hard matches, given the possibility to accept/refuse them.
Catalyst32 wrote:

OR
You can REALLY be PROUD about how PURE your team is... and it is even MORE PURE because the temptation of the easy game is available... the ultimate unclean sin is there tempting your PURITY.
You are making argument you cannot win because you are wrong Matt. Just accept it.

There are two aspects:
1) being tempted (but the temptation is not a problem for me, if I wanted to play easy matches I would still be playing in Ranked, instead I retired all my Ranked teams and I play in Box only);
2) opponent coaches either not accepting fair offers, with same TV and good racial match up or offering bad match ups; this happened in Ranked and still happens when I try to find games in SL, and mind, it's an unranked division, where you don't lose CR, yet people want to play easy matches, generally speaking.
Catalyst32



Joined: Jul 14, 2008

Post   Posted: Jan 13, 2018 - 00:31 Reply with quote Back to top

Well... anyway... having won this argument by having the only opinion based in facts and logic... I now retire the field to the weak counter arguments motivated by Purity and Box Pride... which as I have clearly established are the priary forces ruining the site just as the Spanish Inquisition and child molesting ruined the Church and turned generations of people to Atheism and the Devil.
Where once was a possible internet utopia that could have risen from 'swounds now sits an unholy alliance build an hubris and avarice and pixel hugging. An every expanding such and such led by so and sos.

By the way. I love you guys. Which is why I have fought so hard even to the point of ALMOST being irrational to save you from ruin. You don't see it that way for the most part because you don't see anything other than the expansion of your loves and not the theft of my loves. And you don't see the denial you insist on inflicting upon my loves. For how can I love your purity if'n it be denied me and about 1/3 of all others.
For this be the attitude that led to the discovery of everything that is not is not the Old World. This is the attitude that tore brothers and sisters away fro your shores in hopes of a better place. And this is the attitude that kept your forbears where they remain today.
I lay down my protest like the lamb on your digital whatever.
Catalyst32



Joined: Jul 14, 2008

Post   Posted: Jan 13, 2018 - 00:35 Reply with quote Back to top

MattDakka wrote:
Catalyst32 wrote:

But with what I am saying YOU get to set up an "easy" game if you want to also.

Considering the selfish human nature, most coaches are not going to play hard matches, given the possibility to accept/refuse them.


YEAH... but YOU and the same BOX PRIDE guys wouldn't. And that is who you would still be playing probably 90% of the time. And odds are the 10% of the coaches you seem to fear so much would be coaches that SUCK that you would beat EASILY.
But go ahead and keep fearing the Noobs that would throw you easy wins when they venture into the BOX scheduler.
I don't care any more. I already won tis debate in my previous post.
DrDeath



Joined: Mar 27, 2011

Post   Posted: Jan 13, 2018 - 00:41 Reply with quote Back to top

Have to say I'm sad at this development. I think it will be a very bad move for FUMBBL. There was an interesting thread on here recently which bemoaned the declining playerbase, and various coaches discussed ways to recruit new players. Well the main thing I think which puts off new players is the very high difficulty level on here. There are a lot of very good coaches, with very good teams - it is an unforgiving environment. The Majors were rightly seen by all as the jewels in the FUMMBL crown, they were what everyone aspired to. But the recent changes to the rules have seen the creation of huge teams way over 2000 TV (especially due to no spiralling expenses now), particularly in Ranked. Hard-core coaches on here often play at least once a day, and in time with farming in Ranked and lots of rolls of the managerial dice they can build mega-sides with loads of stat-ups, few or no permanent injuries, even big pots of gold to buy games before they have even begun (don't get me started on the new inducement system - but interesting GW seem to have backtracked on that recently). Now imagine you are a new player, or even a part-timer who only has the time to play here once a week or less. How does making all Majors accessible to mega-farmed-Ranked sides incentivise such coaches to even bother playing? They will see it will take a huge amount of effort to get on even a remotely level playing field. It takes a fair amount of effort just to get a team up to say 1600TV, if even then you have to take the best part of 1000 gold in inducements you don't really have much chance - inducements were never really that good, even before the wizard went (which was arguably the best option).

Blackbox-only Majors should have been part of the answer. At least there it is very difficult to get teams over 2000TV because matching is random and they can't be farmed. As a result the brackets are narrower and it becomes more accessible, a more level playing field. Another answer I would suggest would be creating a new Major with a maximum TV of say 1600 as an accessible entry point to encourage newcomers, and get back some of the occasional or part-time coaches.

As it is I see this decision as a bad own-goal by FUMBBL. I love to play here even for one-off games, but part of the fun was always 'Can I get this team up to standard for a Major'? I look at my Blackbox teams now and I've immediately lost a lot of enthusiasm to play them - you need to be lucky to get a Blackbox team competitive with farmed Ranked sides, especially if you like playing with agility sides as I do. So Blackbox just died a bit for me, though it is the fairest way of arranging games and should really be the best format of the site. I know some of you will be thinking now 'Blackbox Trophy'; well that was a great idea, but I have a busy job and a young family. To enter that you need to play about 200 games in a year - I get to play about one or two a week so I'm excluded there too. There are many middle-aged guys on here with busy jobs and families who are in the same boat.

So Blackbox and Majors just lost a lot of meaning for me, and I suspect many others. I'll still play here of course because I love the game and it's still a good site; but I'll increasingly prefer to play tabletop. This change on Majors is a spectacular mistake in my opinion and will speed - rather than reverse - the decline of FUMMBL. Many of the coaches who weren't too bothered earlier in this thread I see are old hands who play here a lot and are more vocal on the Forums. To such coaches this change is not a big deal, because they will have several big teams in Ranked anyway. But if you are one of those (and nothing wrong with that, in fact in a way I envy you Smile) - I would urge you to consider what these changes are going to do to the newbies and part-timers. If those coaches are not given a decent incentive to start, FUMMBL slowly dies Sad
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Jan 13, 2018 - 00:45 Reply with quote Back to top

Catalyst32 wrote:

YEAH... but YOU and the same BOX PRIDE guys wouldn't. And that is who you would still be playing probably 90% of the time.

Not if opponents refuse my offers, and assuming I would not pick, why should I play vs guys who farmed their teams through picking? It would be unfair and against logic. I don't pick, therefore I don't want to play vs pickers.
Catalyst32 wrote:
And odds are the 10% of the coaches you seem to fear so much would be coaches that SUCK that you would beat EASILY.

Maybe they suck but they could have teams better developed than mine. This game is not based only on coaching, you know. There are other variables, like dice and team development. Even a bad coach can 1TTD with a MA 10 Gutter Runner and it's hard to stop a ST 5 Blodge Bull Centaur with a less developed/without stat freaks team.
Catalyst32 wrote:
I already won tis debate in my previous post.

In your own self-made reality, sure.
JellyBelly



Joined: Jul 08, 2009

Post   Posted: Jan 13, 2018 - 00:54 Reply with quote Back to top

@DrDeath: well said. I echo many of those sentiments, being a busy dad and 'part-timer' myself. This decision is, in a way, the end of FUMBBL being accessible to everybody. Now, official tourneys are only for those who have endless hours to farm teams in R.

Edit: this will be especially true if there are no more/ fewer TV-capped tourneys (except for RRR).

_________________
"Opinions are like arseholes, everybody's got them and they all stink." - The protagonist, Fallout 2

"Go for the eyes, Boo! Go for the eyes!!" Razz


Last edited by JellyBelly on Jan 13, 2018 - 00:59; edited 1 time in total
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Jan 13, 2018 - 00:56 Reply with quote Back to top

Yes, well said DrDeath. /clap
mrt1212



Joined: Feb 26, 2013

Post   Posted: Jan 13, 2018 - 01:05 Reply with quote Back to top

JellyBelly wrote:
@DrDeath: well said. I echo many of those sentiments, being a busy dad and 'part-timer' myself. This decision is, in a way, the end of FUMBBL being accessible to everybody. Now, official tourneys are only for those who have endless hours to farm teams in R.

Edit: this will be especially true if there are no more/ fewer TV-capped tourneys (except for RRR).


How long did it take to create this prison in your mind?
morehouse



Joined: Sep 29, 2005

Post   Posted: Jan 13, 2018 - 01:10 Reply with quote Back to top

Good grief... it's the end of fumbbl because somebody doesn't have enough time to farm his teams for majors. I have officially heard it all. Laughing
JellyBelly



Joined: Jul 08, 2009

Post   Posted: Jan 13, 2018 - 01:56 Reply with quote Back to top

mrt1212 wrote:
JellyBelly wrote:
@DrDeath: well said. I echo many of those sentiments, being a busy dad and 'part-timer' myself. This decision is, in a way, the end of FUMBBL being accessible to everybody. Now, official tourneys are only for those who have endless hours to farm teams in R.

Edit: this will be especially true if there are no more/ fewer TV-capped tourneys (except for RRR).


How long did it take to create this prison in your mind?


Another trend that has been happening in recent years, but which I don't see mentioned much, is how more and more minor tournaments have been shifting towards being uncapped TV.

Those that have been on FUMBBL for a few years might remember the days when it was mostly just the majors and XFLs that were uncapped. Previously, SMACKs used to have various TV caps - 1250, 1500, 1750, 2000 (and yes there were uncapped Legend ones as well). In my opinion, this made official tournaments more accessible to newer players and those who were more time-constrained.

Nowadays, the weekly Scheduled SMACKs and Brawls are, for all intents and purposes, uncapped. Sure, there are the capped 'Minors', but they are relatively few and far-between. So, tourney-wise, there is very little now for a newer player to cut their teeth on, in between RRRs and uncapped tourneys, which are always going to be dominated by 2000+ TV monsters.

To me, this trend, as well as this decision to make all tourneys accessible to R teams, is a sign of FUMBBL moving in the wrong direction. Rather than trying to open up to appeal to a wider range of players, more and more it seems to be turning into an exclusive stomping ground for old-timers (who already have big teams) and those that have the spare time to farm them.

FUMBBL is already dying - these decisions will hasten it, imo.

_________________
"Opinions are like arseholes, everybody's got them and they all stink." - The protagonist, Fallout 2

"Go for the eyes, Boo! Go for the eyes!!" Razz
mrt1212



Joined: Feb 26, 2013

Post   Posted: Jan 13, 2018 - 01:58 Reply with quote Back to top

Man, I wish one of you malcontents had won more than 3 official tournaments over your tenure here so that the complaint of 'uneven playing field' had some sort of basis. As is, I think I only saw 2 Box tourney wins among the whole of those thinking this is the end of BB.
JellyBelly



Joined: Jul 08, 2009

Post   Posted: Jan 13, 2018 - 02:06 Reply with quote Back to top

mrt1212 wrote:
Man, I wish one of you malcontents had won more than 3 official tournaments over your tenure here so that the complaint of 'uneven playing field' had some sort of basis. As is, I think I only saw 2 Box tourney wins among the whole of those thinking this is the end of BB.


What does the number of tournaments that we've won have to do with any of this?

_________________
"Opinions are like arseholes, everybody's got them and they all stink." - The protagonist, Fallout 2

"Go for the eyes, Boo! Go for the eyes!!" Razz
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