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koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: Jan 11, 2018 - 02:36 Reply with quote Back to top

Box can't even have one Major of it's own?

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keggiemckill



Joined: Oct 07, 2004

Post   Posted: Jan 11, 2018 - 02:41 Reply with quote Back to top

I liked them separate. Did Brasky convince you of this?

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tussock



Joined: May 29, 2011

Post   Posted: Jan 11, 2018 - 04:52 Reply with quote Back to top

@JellyBelly : Building teams in box is more fun, it also lets you build Dorfs, Chorfs, and real Orcs, Chaos, and Nurgs with regular games rather than tournaments all the time.

To some extent, if you want proper bash teams, build them in B, and if you want lightweight elf teams, build them in R and pick your way around the bash. Though, really, building elfs in box is easy because your opponents are all built to protect themselves against bash and can't really tie up an Elf team long enough to hurt them.

Hard work in box is like Norse and Frogs and even Zons, the bash around 1800 TV when it gets to be Guard and Tackle heavy, that's just mean, even Humans will take your team apart. And Khemri of course, once the Guard Claw MB spam gets going, it's hard to get proper big.

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Dominik



Joined: Oct 29, 2004

Post   Posted: Jan 11, 2018 - 05:09 Reply with quote Back to top

I mentioned it many times that there were too many majors. There was no coverage for the Black Cup and no excitement. And so it was and would be with many others. This changed now. It is a good step.
mrt1212



Joined: Feb 26, 2013

Post   Posted: Jan 11, 2018 - 05:39 Reply with quote Back to top

JellyBelly wrote:
mrt1212 wrote:
JellyBelly wrote:
So, from the chat in Discord, apparently Brawls are going to be consolidated as well, meaning that there will be no more Box-only official tourneys at all.

This is a very sad day indeed for the Box. For me personally, a big reason to play in the open divisions on FUMBBL at all has just been shot in the face at close range (I dislike Ranked).


JellyBelly, I get ya. I too was once very opposed to Ranked conceptually. But as time has passed and I've actually gotten familiar with the coaches and teams within, it's not a bad alternative to Box, especially when you've filled over 90% of the Box Grid and most of the experiences you are seeking are subverted by the activation choices of other coaches.

You've been here long enough to be ready to shed whatever animosity you have towards Ranked.


Sorry, mrt, but I have no interest at all in playing in Ranked. I strongly dislike the concept and, if anything, I've grown to like it less the more time I have spent on FUMBBL.

For me, one of the main pleasures on FUMBBL is building up a team to enter tournaments with, and I was really looking forward to the Box-only tournaments this year. However, I have little interest in spending my time building up a team in Box, to enter tournaments where I'll be playing against coaches who have taken the easier, less risky option of pimping up a team in [R]. It really doesn't appeal to me at all.

So, where is my incentive now to bother building teams in Box? This sort of decision is probably going to push me closer to being an [L] only coach.


Okay, I tried good cop.

Now for bad cop.

1. The mechanics between Box matchmaking and tourney matchmaking is functionally similar. You don't choose your opponent in the tourney nor do you choose them in Box - they are provided by psuedo random pairing, in the case of Box with Bowlbot pairing using a few factors and in tourneys with results selecting matchups (okay that's not psuedo random, but why else would you participate if you didn't fancy yourself capable of beating the odds against coaches like Relezite or Jos75? Is not any tourney you enter rigged against you by virtue of your own coaching ability?). Therefore it doesn't matter if you're playing Ranked teams or not in a tourney from a pairing perspective.

2. You are so off base with your impression of Ranked vs. Box teams and the perceived competitive advantage of Ranked teams that I truly wonder if you're operating off a script written circa 2015. I even provided a personal example of a Box team being comparable, if not better, to a Ranked team both created by myself, both of the same type. If you can't build teams in Box given the scant implementation of BB2016 then that's an admission of your own issue as a BB coach and building teams. Building in Box really isn't that difficult or harder than Ranked.

In fact I have been having a hell of a time building my humans up in Ranked to a similar TV as my Box ones at their apex during the CRP Era. I thought Ranked was EZ-Mode - it isn't.

3. FWIW, how many Black Box Brawls have you actually entered and participated in? Maybe if you had you'd see where the bad ass teams are at in Box? This goes for a lot of you bemoaning the loss of Box only tourneys as well, but you had more than ample opportunities to participate in Box only tourneys and you didn't. For 2 years!

Oh, you only wanted to play the occasional minor and 3/4 Majors a year? So maybe a max of 8 tourneys a year? Well then, here we are in our current situation with that kind of participation.

4. The lack of imagination here is astounding. Instead of looking at the situation and finding an opportunity for a fun metagame like picking a side and duking it out in a tourney for divisional supremacy, you're simpering like cowards over the myth that the playing field isn't level in mixed tourney settings. Instead of banding together to face the challenge head on, you're fleeing in a huff perceiving a grave material loss.

"Oh yeah, I basically stopped playing BB because I couldn't deal with mixed tourneys...ya know, something I only do like 3 or 4 times a year" LIKE WHAT THE FRESH HELL IS THAT NONSENSE?

Other Metagame Idea:

Blood Drive - Set a goal for CAS to Ranked teams and try to beat it, collectively.

I could probably come up 3 or 4 more over the next few hours.

I swear, if someone gave some of you guys lemons, you'd squirt it in your eye and complain about it not being the grapefruit you'd prefer instead of fetching a cup of sugar and some water and ice cubes.

5. Purity of experience for what? For what? Look, I don't want to roast you for your personal preferences but they just seem so self indulgent and willfully ignorant of the current state of Fumbbl.

Okay, bad cop off.

You do you JellyBelly but honestly, consider this as a moment to throw off the shackles of your self-imposed dilemmas. You might find yourself having fun along the way.
asteflix



Joined: Jan 20, 2014

Post   Posted: Jan 11, 2018 - 06:08 Reply with quote Back to top

That Mrt rant made me harder than I would care to admit. Box rulezzzzzz 4ever and ranked is for chumpzzzz.

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morehouse



Joined: Sep 29, 2005

Post   Posted: Jan 11, 2018 - 06:14 Reply with quote Back to top

I have been saying for years that Fumbbl needs to combine the two divisions and for years people have been laughing at me. Well who is laughing now?

Hint: It's me.
Catalyst32



Joined: Jul 14, 2008

Post   Posted: Jan 11, 2018 - 07:02 Reply with quote Back to top

Are they actually combining the 2 divisions?
Can my Ranked team enter the Box scheduler for a few games and then play a few Ranked games etc etc ?
Can I do that with my Box teams? Can they go back and forth using BOTH types of scheduling AND play in tournaments etc etc?

That is what I wanted in the beginning. And what I had to do to even get close to it was play RANKED and when I wanted a random matchup like I might get from the BOX I would just accept whatever the 1st offer was no matter who offered what. I know... it wasn't really random... but I wasn't picking that game so it was from my end. And when I didn't feel like being random I also played RANKED and tried to find a fair or favorable matchup... or maybe I was trying to find specific matchup... as an example I had a Norse team that only played against Elves for a long time (it was a cool challenge for me at the time).

ANYWAYS... Can I use my Ranked teams in the scheduler sometimes now? Or soon?
ArrestedDevelopment



Joined: Sep 14, 2015

Post   Posted: Jan 11, 2018 - 07:47 Reply with quote Back to top

Can you read?

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asteflix



Joined: Jan 20, 2014

Post   Posted: Jan 11, 2018 - 07:52 Reply with quote Back to top

Thanks for reading. Also please introduce seasons to the R division only , box doesn't need it.

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dorfeus



Joined: Nov 18, 2005

Post   Posted: Jan 11, 2018 - 08:43 Reply with quote Back to top

I also dont see why we need to keep R and B seperated. Why just not offer two different mach making system for one division. Mergin majors is first step to this direction anyway.

Then we would have room for Rookie division.
Sp00keh



Joined: Dec 06, 2011

Post   Posted: Jan 11, 2018 - 08:48 Reply with quote Back to top

What was the reason for this change?
Where is the demand for allowing both divisions?
I don't get it... I feel that most of the time playing against your divisional peers is preferred, and then it made the fumbbl cup feel like a special event.


-Was it too much admin work?
but the number of tournaments is staying the same, isnt it? (OP doesn't make it clear)


-Was it overlapping tournaments?
but they (used to) alternate between R and B so it didnt tie up your team
also, the people who survive late into the finals are typically those who've got 2+ tournament ready teams


-Was it too many tournaments?
why not just kill some off, instead of this strange thing


Currently we have 4x R majors, 3x B majors, and the fumbbl cup for R+B

Could just have 2xR 2xB and 1xR+B?

Or if there was genuine demand to allow both (i doubt so) then make more combined events eg 2xR 2xB and 2xR+B


Last edited by Sp00keh on Jan 11, 2018 - 08:52; edited 1 time in total
ramchop



Joined: Oct 12, 2013

Post   Posted: Jan 11, 2018 - 08:52
FUMBBL Staff
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The whole thing seems pretty sensible to me.

Unless they take that extra step to merge R and B open play, I'd need serious convincing that that was a good idea.
Grod



Joined: Sep 30, 2003

Post   Posted: Jan 11, 2018 - 08:56 Reply with quote Back to top

Why even have 2 divisions then? Why not just merge them and make scheduler optional?

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Sp00keh



Joined: Dec 06, 2011

Post   Posted: Jan 11, 2018 - 08:56 Reply with quote Back to top

Grod, that's a separate question of R v B...


What is the reason for this change though? what's the upside?


Downsides imo, you lose:
-the sense you're playing against divisonal peers
-motivation to build tournament level bash in R or elves in B
-a lot of flavour for the FC

Could the upsides (whatever they are) not be achieved by tweaking tournaments or schedule without making this change?
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