koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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 Posted:
Jan 14, 2018 - 14:06 |
 
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| JellyBelly wrote: | | koadah wrote: | | PurpleChest wrote: |
I also don't see why any team built in a competitive division should not be allowed to enter. When I was Tourney manager I always had plans ready for the day someone told me to let everyone into everything. |
That is why the Fumbbl Cup is the big one.  |
This is a good point. Allowing both Ranked and Box teams now in every tournament (not even just every major), will somewhat de-value the FUMBBL Cup.
Now, every week we can have an uncapped-TV tourney where both R and B teams can join ... why wait?!  |
No. You missed the point. The Fumbbl Cup allows any team. I have not looked at any Major but the Fumbbl Cup for a while, but they used to have restrictions. e.g. only top n teams. If too many teams of the same race enter some won't get in etc. TV was used to decide which teams made the cut.
The Fumbbl Cup and Black Cup were the simplest. No odd rules. No missing out because you picked the wrong team. No missing out because your team's TV wasn't high enough.
The others seemed designed to keep out the more casual coaches. Which maybe reduced forfeits? |
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gpope
Joined: Jun 04, 2010
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Jan 14, 2018 - 16:16 |
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| koadah wrote: | This idea is just "merge the divisions" with the extra restriction that if you start a new team as Box it won't be able to use the scheduler.
You still need a "pure only" flag for Box teams that don't want to play vs Ranked teams. |
IMO the more important part of the Box ethos to preserve is the "this team is not farmed" flag, which a one-way merge accomplishes.
I don't object to letting coaches opt out of cross-division matches, but it's a complication that would take more work to implement and I'm not convinced it's entirely necessary. A coach who activates with a farmed Ranked team is completely waiving their ability to pick safe matches and in fact exposing their pixels to decidedly unsafe matches, so it seems like the problem is likely to be self-correcting. Nobody is going to want to spend time farming up a team so they can grind out a few easy but expensive wins unless it's a tournament environment... which is already in the plans. |
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koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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Jan 14, 2018 - 17:47 |
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| gpope wrote: | | koadah wrote: | This idea is just "merge the divisions" with the extra restriction that if you start a new team as Box it won't be able to use the scheduler.
You still need a "pure only" flag for Box teams that don't want to play vs Ranked teams. |
IMO the more important part of the Box ethos to preserve is the "this team is not farmed" flag, which a one-way merge accomplishes.
I don't object to letting coaches opt out of cross-division matches, but it's a complication that would take more work to implement and I'm not convinced it's entirely necessary. A coach who activates with a farmed Ranked team is completely waiving their ability to pick safe matches and in fact exposing their pixels to decidedly unsafe matches, so it seems like the problem is likely to be self-correcting. Nobody is going to want to spend time farming up a team so they can grind out a few easy but expensive wins unless it's a tournament environment... which is already in the plans. |
If you don't care about pure vs pure then you may as well just merge the divisions. |
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Grod
Joined: Sep 30, 2003
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Jan 14, 2018 - 19:21 |
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So if you could opt out from cross division matches in the scheduler, would anyone be unhappy with it on principle? |
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koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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Jan 14, 2018 - 19:46 |
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| Grod wrote: | | So if you could opt out from cross division matches in the scheduler, would anyone be unhappy with it on principle? |
Someone is always going to be unhappy.
The point really is that from a practical point of view that would be exactly the same as merging the divisions.
Pure Box would probably slowly die as more people opt for hybrid scheduler/gamefinder. |
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Catalyst32
Joined: Jul 14, 2008
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Jan 14, 2018 - 23:53 |
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| Fanky wrote: | | Grod i guess the answer is that ranked teams have less injured players (no tv change) and more stat freaks. MattDakka explained it before quite in detail. |
So... in Ranked teams do not suffer injuries?
Where is THIS land of milk and honey you speak of?
Apparently I have never played there. |
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Catalyst32
Joined: Jul 14, 2008
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Jan 14, 2018 - 23:57 |
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| Balle2000 wrote: | | Catalyst32 wrote: | | You BOX coaches |
I stopped reading at this point. |
How DARE I address the audience I am speaking too. 
You were so right to shun the best idea this site has seen since the original idea that created it in the 1st place because I DARED to correctly address my audience.
You must do the same to posts that begin "Balle2000" if you were to act consistently.
Because HOW DARE they address their message to YOU when talking to you.  |
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Catalyst32
Joined: Jul 14, 2008
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Jan 15, 2018 - 00:13 |
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| gpope wrote: | | koadah wrote: | This idea is just "merge the divisions" with the extra restriction that if you start a new team as Box it won't be able to use the scheduler.
You still need a "pure only" flag for Box teams that don't want to play vs Ranked teams. |
IMO the more important part of the Box ethos to preserve is the "this team is not farmed" flag, which a one-way merge accomplishes.
I don't object to letting coaches opt out of cross-division matches, but it's a complication that would take more work to implement and I'm not convinced it's entirely necessary. A coach who activates with a farmed Ranked team is completely waiving their ability to pick safe matches and in fact exposing their pixels to decidedly unsafe matches, so it seems like the problem is likely to be self-correcting. Nobody is going to want to spend time farming up a team so they can grind out a few easy but expensive wins unless it's a tournament environment... which is already in the plans. |
Exactly. Why would someone bring the team they have been trying to PIMP for a Major into the BOX where they might have their pimped team ripped to shreds? For a cheap win?
Again. You are proving my point that the fears of this PURE BOX guys is totally irrational.
Who has pimped their Woodies with 2 Legend War Dancers so they can win a Major and then risks them in the most dangerous environment on the site when they can keep them safe by picking games OR by NOT PLAYING?
The greatest fear of BOX Purists is facing something they would only face in a Tournament... outside of their PURE environment. And they can totally avoid those teams by not entering Tournaments. (They might catch a disease in those tournament anyway outside of their quarantined pure environment.)
Give them a BLACK FLAG to carry for as long as they want to protect them from the Ranked or Crossover PLAGUE. And they can keep that Flag until they chose to either USE the Game Finder or CHOOSE to allow Crossover teams to be paired with them as an opponent in the Scheduler.
BUT... bar them from Tournaments until they are willing to Crossover. That would be FAIR... but I wouldn't really want them to be excluded the way the actively fight to exclude ME (and almost all non-Euro coaches from the best toy on the site.) |
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ramchop
Joined: Oct 12, 2013
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JellyBelly
Joined: Jul 08, 2009
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| Posted:
Jan 15, 2018 - 14:25 |
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| Grod wrote: | | JellyBelly wrote: | | @Grod: No. Because that means that decent, honest Box teams will have to risk playing against farmed, tainted Ranked teams, without even knowing about it!. I honestly can't imagine anything worse. |
Just why would that matter if the scheduler is choosing matchups on the basis of TV etc? Why would the match be more or less competitive? Just curious. |
Because, like I said with the tourneys: for me, it's not just that game that matters - it's how the two teams got to that game. The two teams might have gotten to the same point, but their journey has been different. One has taken a difficult route, fighting its way through trials and tribulations; whereas the other one has taken an easier, cheesier, more convenient path. Again, to me, that Ranked team, which may have been farmed, doesn't deserve to play against my genuine Box team.
Think about a similar example of a tabletop RPG: two different players have two characters at level 15. One character has been leveled up by fighting its way through countless dangers, fiendish dungeons, evil wizards, etc. The other one got leveled up by taking the character into the woods and grinding up by killing rabbits over and over. The two characters are at the same level and might be indistinguishable in terms of abilities. But, do you think that first character is going to want the second one in their party? No, of course not. Because the second one is a cheesy fraud that doesn't deserve to be there. If the first character was mine, I would use it to kill the second character (preferably torturing it first over a long period of time). Tbh, most DMs would probably step in pretty quickly to prevent that second character happening in the first place. |
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JellyBelly
Joined: Jul 08, 2009
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| Posted:
Jan 15, 2018 - 14:27 |
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| Catalyst32 wrote: | | Fanky wrote: | | Grod i guess the answer is that ranked teams have less injured players (no tv change) and more stat freaks. MattDakka explained it before quite in detail. |
So... in Ranked teams do not suffer injuries?
Where is THIS land of milk and honey you speak of?
Apparently I have never played there. |
Catalyst, I could show you numerous examples of farmed Ranked teams (but I won't). |
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"Opinions are like arseholes, everybody's got them and they all stink." - The protagonist, Fallout 2
"Go for the eyes, Boo! Go for the eyes!!" |
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dorfeus
Joined: Nov 18, 2005
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Jan 15, 2018 - 15:30 |
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Just an Idea and I know that you are trying to reduce number of tournament not to increase them:
Black box Steel Gauntlet tournament
As you might know popular Black box Trophy takes a year and you can only count in the first 40 games you have played with the team.
Why not run a cup or tournament after the one year period has passed. To take part to this tournament you can have max 40 games played for the team and you must be part of group Black box Trophy group. You could select any of your 5 teams.
This would really put all players to equal position at the very start of tournament and this would be Box only |
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happygrue
Joined: Oct 15, 2010
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| Posted:
Jan 15, 2018 - 15:51 |
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| dorfeus wrote: |
Black box Steel Gauntlet tournament
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That is a really fun idea. I like it! |
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ArrestedDevelopment
Joined: Sep 14, 2015
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| Posted:
Jan 15, 2018 - 16:21 |
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Tbh making the box challenge itself a major would probably suit the environment of the box best. |
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Catalyst32
Joined: Jul 14, 2008
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Jan 15, 2018 - 23:36 |
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| JellyBelly wrote: |
Think about a similar example of a tabletop RPG: two different players have two characters at level 15. One character has been leveled up by fighting its way through countless dangers, fiendish dungeons, evil wizards, etc. The other one got leveled up by taking the character into the woods and grinding up by killing rabbits over and over. The two characters are at the same level and might be indistinguishable in terms of abilities. But, do you think that first character is going to want the second one in their party? No, of course not. Because the second one is a cheesy fraud that doesn't deserve to be there. If the first character was mine, I would use it to kill the second character (preferably torturing it first over a long period of time). Tbh, most DMs would probably step in pretty quickly to prevent that second character happening in the first place. |
YES. Let's do that. But let's also remember that in an RPG you are on the same TEAM with that Lamer and in Blood Bowl you actually get to KILL that Lamers characters... in fact it is part of THE POINT of Blood Bowl... to KILL the other team.
And which Character or Team would you want to be using... the one that EARNED that level and knows how to actually play the game and use the skills etc that you have EARNED... or the Cheeser that had just killed bunnies in this fight to the death?
If you Lamed your way their you know you are a Fraud, facing a near-God. Do you think MAYBE there is enough psychological disadvantage in the heart of the Fraud to be taken advantage of.
You BOX Purists SPEC games too. right? Wouldn't you be banding together to add to the intimidation factor that would shake this Frauds confidence? I bet you would.
I know when I made my best Majors Tourney Run I had ALL of SWEEDEN showing up to root against me. In part because I was a relative NOOB playing Orcs and winning. And I would bet my team would have qualified as FARMED under most standards because at the time I was so NEW to the carnage that I was a major pixel hugger. I had never had such a high TV team before and I was pretty attached to me team that had almost ZERO Doubles or Stat Ups.
And ALL of SWEEDEN (nothing against you guys Swedes... I would have done it too... was fun in the end) was showing up to BOO ME and root for whoever I played. In part because I was on a path that ran through multiple Sweedish coaches... but mainly because I RETIRED a Sweedish Champions Legendary Team. And I did it right after by almost any standards his tea was about to go up 2-0 last in the 2nd Half. I did it by just getting LUCKY AS HELL.
I think... if I remember right... that I DODGED a Rookie LineOrc (or maybe he just had Block) and he Blitzed a Legendary Bull Centaur with the ball and -2D blocked him for Double Pows and KILLED HIM. I then KILLED 1 player per turn on his team while running and passing and handing the ball up the field for the TIE.
And I didn't know the Overtime Rules meant the game ENDED on the 1st OT TD. So I punished the hell out of his team for 8 turns and a Tombstone.
And my run continued to either the SemiFinals or QUarterfinals where I lost to 1 of the 1st Lizardmen team I ever faced that ended up the Tournament RUnner Up. So... they boo'd me the whole way.
I lost soe of my point because I got called into work. BUt cool story Bro. DON"T FEAR THE PIMPERS. They aren't good coaches. |
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