FUMBBL :: Online Blood Bowl League

asteflix

Joined: Jan 20, 2014

Posted: Jan 12, 2018 - 19:32

Yes, catalyst, you're not gonna find many allies here. I think it's a great thing for both division if only the coaches would stop whining. Like you should do. Stop whining.

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mrt1212

Joined: Feb 26, 2013

Posted: Jan 12, 2018 - 19:40

Catalyst32 wrote:

What did you lose? Seriously?

You had, what? 3 Box Majors AND the FUMBBL Cup and the XFLs and the Scheduler.
Was it 3 or 4 BOX ONLY Majors? It really doesn't matter.

What did you lose? 3 Majors JUST FOR YOU
What did we lose? 4 Majors JUST FOR US

What did you gain? 4 Majors to play in... 1 more than before
What did we gain? NOTHING

Seriously?

1. The XFL was not open to Box teams until fairly recently. Your words make it seem like opening the XFL to Box teams was taking something away from you. If that wasn't your intent, why did you even mention it and phrase it that way?

2. What is this garbage, us vs. them mentality? Like, there's a fun rivalry that I alluded to and then there's taking stuff to a level that is far greater than what a free iteration of BB on the internet warrants. Both Box and Ranked coaches are huffy about this in a really tribal way and it's gross and stupid. It perplexes me to no end that the words 'friendly rivalry' are a foreign esoteric phrase to many of you.

3. I'm not a Box or Ranked coach at this point. I honestly don't care about the rivalry because in the big picture, the picture outside of myself and my tastes and preferences, it is actually kind of crappy for the health of the site. You guys can't help but slap fight one another like it actually means anything about the other person or yourself. Do any of you malcontents actually think your posturing comes across as anything beyond self interested and petulant?

For the longest time I took a kind of pride in only playing Box but the more involved I've become with BB and the site the less meaningful that is. My ego and pride aren't the most important thing going on here. It seriously doesn't matter where you pick up games on the site and if you DO believe it matters I have some bad news for you - You need to do better as a coach so that the impact on you as a coach is almost non existent. If you want pointers and help in achieving your best, I and many others are more than happy to help along the way and learn some stuff ourselves. But it's a little hard to do that when you are so unpleasant and inside your own head and biting everyone that comes within arm's length telling you that your frets far exceed the tangible impact that playing against Box coaches has in a tourney.

I get so frustrated that ya'll take the meta aspects of the game way more seriously than the game itself.

mrt1212

Joined: Feb 26, 2013

Posted: Jan 12, 2018 - 20:04

This is you guys, right now.

Sp00keh

Joined: Dec 06, 2011

Posted: Jan 12, 2018 - 20:05

Lolol expertly crushed, mrt

Cata, ranked-only coaches now get the same amount of tournaments they did before, right?
But now they may have to face some box opponents

Who cares?

Anyway like I said earlier, I would like one of the 5 majors to be ranked only, and one to box only. It'd reduce some of this angst, but mainly for variety / interest / flavour

Last edited by Sp00keh on %b %12, %2018 - %20:%Jan; edited 1 time in total

Catalyst32

Joined: Jul 14, 2008

Posted: Jan 12, 2018 - 20:08

MattDakka wrote:

Catalyst32 wrote:

3rd WRONG. What fixes the BOX in NA is the COMBINE the community into 1 Division. Rather than DIVIDING it in 2 Divisions.

You got it almost right. What fixes the BOX in NA is the COMBINE the community into 1 Division, the Black Box.
Ranked should be deleted and NA coaches would have to play in Box if they want to earn their CR and farm their teams for the Majors. That would suddenly increase the Box pool even during NA timezone. Rocket science, eh?
But there is no interest in doing this, so we are stuck with two Divisions and small pool in NA.

Catalyst32 wrote:

I'm not going to spend my entire hour or 2 of free time WAITING AROUND to NOT PLAY.

That happened to me when I played in Ranked.
Either I had to wait for hours or accept an unfair match offer. When I wanted to play my starting Dwarf, Orc, Chaos Dwarf teams I couldn't because only my Elves got match offers.

That's easy for you to say Matt.
When BOX came along you were already a very good coach.

I WAS NOT. I was still learning. I was still eligible for the 145 League.
I NEEDED an environment where I could chose my team and my opponent.

I NEEDED an environment where I could practice games against Elves or Lizards or Necro or whatever.
It took me forever to figure out how to not get pounded by every Lizard team and Necro team and Elf team I met.
It took me forever to learn how to play using a Human team vs Orcs or Nurgle etc.

And I threw my chosen roster of that time up against teams I could not beat over and over again until I figured it out.

IF you had your way any NEW coach would have been stuck facing nothing but CLPOMB CHAOS rosters 90% of the time while trying to learn the game.

And I understand your dilemma that existed before BOX came along because I know people ducked good coaches.
Even I would sometimes. I would try to play maybe a weak CR coach 1 game of lets say my Humans vs his Necros... and then I would try to find a higher level CR coach for the same rosters matchup but different coach.
But I was looking out for my own education in this game. Playing the Elite coaches over and over would not have been good for my experience as a newer coach.

BUT MORE TO THE POINT...
There is ABSOLUTELY NO REASON that 1 Division could not have BOTH OPTIONS in getting games.
The is no reason for 2 Divisions.
1 division that has BOTH a computer scheduler AND the open matching environment is the best option.

There is no reason to FORCE either group to use only 1 method to arrange games.
Only DUMB PRIDE has ever been given as a reason to keep them separated.
Only pounding your chest superiority complexes insist on the separation.

LISTEN TO LOGIC...
In Ranked you can play whoever is willing to play you. You can't really complain because YOU had to AGREE to play the game.

In Box you will be paired with a team of similar TV to yours. You can't really complain because YOU chose the TV of your team and agreed to a random pairing to a random team of a similar TV.

So WHO CARES where your opponent played their last 5 to 10 games?
In Ranked you don't have to agree to play them if you don't want to.
In Box you are playing a team of similar TV to you RIGHT NOW regardless of who they played last.

How different is the Undead team you got paired with at 1200 (or 1400 or 1800 etc) going to be in a Box match if it played its previous game in Ranked rather than Box?

Follow along and LEARN kiddos...

That Undead team is likely to be the same team no matter where it played last.
You could say... "yeah but, it played in Ranked last game because the Mummy was mng and NOW the Mummy is back for the Box".
BUT YOU ARE WRONG... and if given the option that Undead coach was PERHAPS a FOOL for going to Ranked in that instance.
That Undead team would be in danger of PICKING in Ranked and might get a tougher match by playing there RATHER than getting to step down a level in the Box and get an opponent who will not know going in that he will get to play a wounded Undead team.

What is safer for that Undead team?
A random opponent that is a step down in competition in the Box.
OR risking his chances with getting PICKED by the evil pickers you Box coaches hate so much.

asteflix

Joined: Jan 20, 2014

Posted: Jan 12, 2018 - 20:14

And the National Center for Health Statistics says the average weight for an adult male in the United States is 189.8 pounds. That means the average man produces 360 pounds of poop a year... almost one whole pound a day.

Turns out catalyst spewed enough shit for an entire year !

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Catalyst32

Joined: Jul 14, 2008

Posted: Jan 12, 2018 - 20:28

You don't get it. That much is obvious. I'm not slapping my chest about Ranked being the best.
I'm lamenting the loss of what made Ranked cool... and how all of that stuff gets to be a part of the Box experience... but the Box never has to share the best toy on the site (the scheduler).

I can't use the scheduler because the divisions separate the Coaches. MEANING that there will not be enough coaches OUTSIDE OF EUROPE to JOIN ME in using the Box BECAUSE the coaches are divided.

The Box gets to keep the best toy on the site and never has to share their toys with coaches outside of Europe.
And the only justification for it is BOX PRIDE.
There is n other justification for it.

Box couldn't support its own Majors... but they were given them. They got those toys to play with.
But that wasn't enough. So they got the XFLs and the FUMBBL Cup to play with.
And then their own Box Majors basically crapped out and they were given the rest of the Ranked Majors to play with.

All I want is a CHANCE to play with the best toy on the site. And THE ONLY WAY that is ever going to happen is if they MERGE the Divisions and allow both types of scheduling.

But BOX PRIDE stands in the way.
And meanwhile BOX PRIDE (and hubris) has finally taken everything it can away from Ranked. And some of these chest slappers are even suggesting taking the Open Scheduling of Ranked away too.

BUT SOMEHOW... I'm the problem for complaining.

I feel like Ukraine... facing Russia stripping away every cool piece of Ukraine that they can. Meanwhile the UN stands by and/or helps Russia do it.

mrt1212 wrote:

Catalyst32 wrote:

What did you lose? Seriously?

You had, what? 3 Box Majors AND the FUMBBL Cup and the XFLs and the Scheduler.
Was it 3 or 4 BOX ONLY Majors? It really doesn't matter.

What did you lose? 3 Majors JUST FOR YOU
What did we lose? 4 Majors JUST FOR US

What did you gain? 4 Majors to play in... 1 more than before
What did we gain? NOTHING

Seriously?

1. The XFL was not open to Box teams until fairly recently. Your words make it seem like opening the XFL to Box teams was taking something away from you. If that wasn't your intent, why did you even mention it and phrase it that way?

2. What is this garbage, us vs. them mentality? Like, there's a fun rivalry that I alluded to and then there's taking stuff to a level that is far greater than what a free iteration of BB on the internet warrants. Both Box and Ranked coaches are huffy about this in a really tribal way and it's gross and stupid. It perplexes me to no end that the words 'friendly rivalry' are a foreign esoteric phrase to many of you.

3. I'm not a Box or Ranked coach at this point. I honestly don't care about the rivalry because in the big picture, the picture outside of myself and my tastes and preferences, it is actually kind of crappy for the health of the site. You guys can't help but slap fight one another like it actually means anything about the other person or yourself. Do any of you malcontents actually think your posturing comes across as anything beyond self interested and petulant?

For the longest time I took a kind of pride in only playing Box but the more involved I've become with BB and the site the less meaningful that is. My ego and pride aren't the most important thing going on here. It seriously doesn't matter where you pick up games on the site and if you DO believe it matters I have some bad news for you - You need to do better as a coach so that the impact on you as a coach is almost non existent. If you want pointers and help in achieving your best, I and many others are more than happy to help along the way and learn some stuff ourselves. But it's a little hard to do that when you are so unpleasant and inside your own head and biting everyone that comes within arm's length telling you that your frets far exceed the tangible impact that playing against Box coaches has in a tourney.

I get so frustrated that ya'll take the meta aspects of the game way more seriously than the game itself.

Catalyst32

Joined: Jul 14, 2008

Posted: Jan 12, 2018 - 20:30

Sp00keh wrote:

Lolol expertly crushed, mrt

Cata, ranked-only coaches now get the same amount of tournaments they did before, right?
But now they may have to face some box opponents

Who cares?

Anyway like I said earlier, I would like one of the 5 majors to be ranked only, and one to box only. It'd reduce some of this angst, but mainly for variety / interest / flavour

And I want a scheduler that I can use.

Mind the argument or mind your business.

mrt1212

Joined: Feb 26, 2013

Posted: Jan 12, 2018 - 20:32

That idea that you posit yourself as Ukraine and not Russia...that speaks to some lack of self awareness something fierce.

Catalyst32

Joined: Jul 14, 2008

Posted: Jan 12, 2018 - 20:35

asteflix wrote:

Yes, catalyst, you're not gonna find many allies here. I think it's a great thing for both division if only the coaches would stop whining. Like you should do. Stop whining.

I've had plenty of allies in this thread, assTflex.
But none of them were personally attacked by your friend.
IN FACT, some of my allies have been primarily BOX coaches and they agree with my solution.
But I doubt you read the whole thread to find that out. Or maybe you didn't comprehend what was written.
So since you don't know what is going on maybe you can go back to trolling somewhere else.

Catalyst32

Joined: Jul 14, 2008

Posted: Jan 12, 2018 - 20:36

mrt1212 wrote:

That idea that you posit yourself as Ukraine and not Russia...that speaks to some lack of self awareness something fierce.

Is UKRAINE trying to take stuff from RUSSIA?

NO. So please. Troll elsewhere.

asteflix

Joined: Jan 20, 2014

Posted: Jan 12, 2018 - 20:41

I'm personally of the opinion that you are disturbing the conversation quite well all by yourself catalyst

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ArrestedDevelopment

Joined: Sep 14, 2015

Posted: Jan 12, 2018 - 20:41

Not gonna respond to the rest since it's just vitriolic diatribe, but:

Catalyst32 wrote:

4th You prove my point being that guys like YOU just DON"T GET IT.
I cannot join a pool in Box to play in and lead an initiative. A POOL would require other PLAYERS. There have to be other people to join in with. I'm not going to spend my entire hour or 2 of free time WAITING AROUND to NOT PLAY.

How about YOU stay up really late looking to play games when it is convenient for ME. And see how long you last sitting there NOT PLAYING before you get a clue.

I do get it, because I have done that. Plenty of times. I've probably played more NA box in the last two years than some of the NA coaches on this site.

I've also played FC games/brawl at 3-5am my time for NA coaches plenty of times too.

You gotta meet people halfway.

_________________

Catalyst32

Joined: Jul 14, 2008

Posted: Jan 12, 2018 - 20:50

MEET PEOPLE 1/2 WAY?
I am suggesting a total merger of Ranked AND Box that maintains BOTH scheduling options.

What could be more 1/2 way than that?

I can't possibly play you while at work. It would KILL people if I did for 1 job.
And I would be fired and rightfully so if I did it at any other job.
I am AT WORK when you Euros play.
My work requires active attention to what is going on at all times.

Bazakastine

Joined: Mar 21, 2014

Posted: Jan 12, 2018 - 20:51

Catalyst AD is a euro who for a long time was playing during NA evenings. Thats why he said he has played more NA box than some of the NA coaches. Usually when having a discussion its good to read what people are writing.