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Daudy



Joined: Aug 28, 2008

Post   Posted: Mar 27, 2018 - 12:16 Reply with quote Back to top

Smegish wrote:
So the TV limit set for most TT tourneys is about as big as we can expect to get to and maintain...


Admins can modify and adjust the monetary amounts (and I think 1300ish won't be a problem after 1st season from scratch), but yes this was the criticism I had of the rules too. Rather than consider a progressive environment with highly skilled teams, Gains Workchop's attempt at finally addressing it has turned it into a version of the game that has some similarities to what is already played all the time in TT. It's not resurrect nor a hardcap on tv/skill selections, but with all this talk about 'refreshing' your low spp linos after a few seasons it certainly doesn't sound that different.

That said, even if amounts are adjusted, we won't see that many mega teams again because as discussed on discord, that's just not part of the vision a number of the league admins have (and exacerbated by the lack of any financial control in the current environment).

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D_Arquebus



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Mar 27, 2018 - 12:34 Reply with quote Back to top

Outside SWL: The full DZ1 + DZ2 rules add in Sponsors and Stadiums etc giving huge boosts to cash. We had a TT Undead team earn 250k in one match... that plus friendlies and longer seasons means the tv can grow larger then TT Tourney level play even within the confines of the existing $$$ amounts.

GWS wanted team turn over and more inducements being bought. But at no point do teams become 2mil+ rated juggernauts with 4-8 season old vets in all positions with skills everywhere... because the turn over still needs to be managed.

In fact, it means there is about a 1 season gap between the new (rapidly) growing teams and the existing (maintaining) stalwarts. Which is significantly less then the old grow for 4-5 seasons to be able to compete against the big existing monsters.

Re SWL- the decision to 'refresh' your own players is completely up to you, within the confines of the rebuy amounts you have generated Smile

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NAF Regional TT Tourney Organiser (AUS/ NZ)
TT Bloodbowl in AUS - www.ausbowl.com
TT Bloodbowl in NZ - www.theendzone.co

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Smegish



Joined: Jul 13, 2004

Post   Posted: Mar 27, 2018 - 12:41 Reply with quote Back to top

The 'salary cap' this system creates I'm okay with as an idea, just feel the default settings are WAY too low for my taste, with the short length of our season.

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Irgy



Joined: Feb 21, 2007

Post   Posted: Mar 28, 2018 - 01:11 Reply with quote Back to top

Thanks Tussock you're a hero. So glad I read all that, it's a humongous change. Now I even understand why we needed a complete redraft. Can kind of even understand why the teams are more strongly tied to the league now too.

I'm not sure I like the sound of it though to be honest. There's definitely some up-sides, but some things I really don't like the sound of. The TV at each season reset is lower than I'd like. I really don't miss the TV caps we used to have at all in the first place. I also feel like teams at ~2M is where I'd like them to sit in the long term. The new system also doesn't seem all that conducive to legendary players. Paying for their skills, and paying extra for their age as well it's going to be the right choice to retire them most of the time, which is a little disappointing.

But heck I'm happy to give it a go. Change is as good as a holiday and all that. Plus, it makes my thrid-choice povvo elves look a lot better, what with player cost actually mattering, everyone having low TV, and the free end of season team refresh to make up for the lack of armour.

PS I read somewhere (while trying to search for this info) that the change to spending cash on inducements wasn't intended to be a change at all in the first place and was actually meant to be interpreted the same way it worked before. What's the latest on that? It actually sounds like the change fits in well with the way everything else works to me though, whether intended or not.
D_Arquebus



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Mar 28, 2018 - 01:26 Reply with quote Back to top

Legendary TEAMs irgy... Teams! Smile

Team Management for a successful long term franchise will be more important then individual players over the long haul. Smile

Re the FAQ - it reads as posted. The "alternate facts" that is just like the past seems a mistake if anything. Because they explicitly changed the wording.

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NAF Regional TT Tourney Organiser (AUS/ NZ)
TT Bloodbowl in AUS - www.ausbowl.com
TT Bloodbowl in NZ - www.theendzone.co

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Daudy



Joined: Aug 28, 2008

Post   Posted: Mar 28, 2018 - 01:52 Reply with quote Back to top

D_Arquebus wrote:
Outside SWL: The full DZ1 + DZ2 rules add in Sponsors and Stadiums etc giving huge boosts to cash. We had a TT Undead team earn 250k in one match...


That's great and all, but what does 250k do in one game with EM lurking about? You can spend it on more rookie players or more rrs (or other things with new rules) to make an inefficient bloatfest, or just lose it if you bank too much. Even if we weren't playing a hybrid of the rules (this sounds familiar), you're not going to be able to bank repeated 250k amounts for your end of season.

Subsequently, you're going to get artificially inflated teams (spend it or lose it, and I know there's more stuff to spend it on with full rules) over the course of the season or teams that choose to stay efficient and just forego all that extra money to EM (aka makes no difference to them).

tl;dr: More cash earned per game still doesn't really help the rebuy at the end of season with Expensive Mistakes being a thing.

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Last edited by Daudy on Mar 28, 2018 - 01:53; edited 1 time in total
Sharper



Joined: Nov 22, 2006

Post   Posted: Mar 28, 2018 - 01:53 Reply with quote Back to top

Think it will be very interesting to see how teams develop/are limited over the redraft. Personally i think this will see a far lower TV than we're used too, mainly as we've got no friendlies/extra things, and a lowish amount of games per rebuy.
D_Arquebus



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Mar 28, 2018 - 02:32 Reply with quote Back to top

Daudy - it means that post rebuy they are able to quickly buy up any and all good they want/ need for the new season. Bounce back game = Wink .

Also it means they have all that tasty inducement money to spend to win games in season.

They are able to quickly replace expensive players without needing to be sitting on a dragon's hoard of gold.

It means they can reliably 'top up' to the 190-ish sweet spot just prior to rebuy at end of season.


**EDIT** I suppose what I am suggesting to all... the admin team will monitor the situation... Speculation (theory-bowl) will count for little compared to demonstration. The manner in which one presents their arguments goes a long way to aiding or inhibiting the message being taken on board Smile . We all know what the current circumstances are, and can try our best to navigate them to create the best outcomes for ourselves Smile

_________________
NAF Regional TT Tourney Organiser (AUS/ NZ)
TT Bloodbowl in AUS - www.ausbowl.com
TT Bloodbowl in NZ - www.theendzone.co

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Last edited by D_Arquebus on Mar 28, 2018 - 02:37; edited 1 time in total
Irgy



Joined: Feb 21, 2007

Post   Posted: Mar 28, 2018 - 02:37 Reply with quote Back to top

D_Arquebus wrote:
Legendary TEAMs irgy... Teams! Smile

Team Management for a successful long term franchise will be more important then individual players over the long haul. Smile


Legendary players are a part of what makes legendary teams though. That and winning things, but we can't all have that. I don't expect team management matters anywhere near as much any more, when you re-buy your whole team at the end of every season and all the players you've spent a long time developing are the first to go.

Does the cash you get from the last game go through "expensive mistakes" before you can spend it on keeping your existing players? I'm guessing not, since we're told not to "ready" the team after game 7. In that case all these final round dead-heats are going to be hard fought, just for the winnings re-roll if nothing else.
D_Arquebus



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Mar 28, 2018 - 02:41 Reply with quote Back to top

Legendary Teams are above and beyond the players that make them up. Players come and go and have finite lives... Teams can be Immortal...

Team Management is EXACTLY about managing the cycling group of players to always have the tools you need, in place of ever enduring old reliable players. It is about managing the skills and the RRs and the Bench to ensure the team is competitive with less stability then before. Team Management from CRP may have been about 'grooming Super Stars and Legends', but not so much anymore. It can be done but it will require trade offs elsewhere to afford them... managing the competing interests Smile

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NAF Regional TT Tourney Organiser (AUS/ NZ)
TT Bloodbowl in AUS - www.ausbowl.com
TT Bloodbowl in NZ - www.theendzone.co

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ramchop



Joined: Oct 12, 2013

Post   Posted: Mar 28, 2018 - 03:00 Reply with quote Back to top

I am genuinely excited about the new system. However, that doesn't mean we can't be sad about losing the legendary player aspect of the game.

The characters in the team are a big part of the character of the team. Clark (not a legend) added fun to Freezy Trees, it was rare that he wasn't mentioned by an opponent. He should have been fired long ago. No choice in the new system, he'd have to go.

Yes, I'm a pixel hugger from way back.
Smegish



Joined: Jul 13, 2004

Post   Posted: Mar 28, 2018 - 03:21 Reply with quote Back to top

Playing in a long running league loses alot of appeal for me if my team is just a revolving door of rookies every season, with just one or two older players that get constantly targeted for fouls -even worse than they used to..

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Redgum



Joined: May 19, 2009

Post   Posted: Mar 28, 2018 - 03:49 Reply with quote Back to top

I'm a big fan of Legendary players and stars of the league (obv), so I'm hoping these rebuys don't completely remove the opportunity for a new generation to arise.
That said, rebuying at approx 13-1400 would be a disaster for my Revolutionaries, who could be in that range with only 6 or 7 players.

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Thanks Redgum, you are a legend...
Sharper



Joined: Nov 22, 2006

Post   Posted: Mar 28, 2018 - 04:01 Reply with quote Back to top

D_Arquebus wrote:

**EDIT** I suppose what I am suggesting to all... the admin team will monitor the situation... Speculation (theory-bowl) will count for little compared to demonstration. The manner in which one presents their arguments goes a long way to aiding or inhibiting the message being taken on board Smile . We all know what the current circumstances are, and can try our best to navigate them to create the best outcomes for ourselves Smile


Yeah, i think overall constructive feedback after a (few) season(s) is the way to go.
Might come down to slightly adjusting the base gold given out.

Either way, excited to see how it develops and evolves.
Irgy



Joined: Feb 21, 2007

Post   Posted: Mar 28, 2018 - 04:52 Reply with quote Back to top

Yeah I'm not pushing for any change just stating my expectations. I can't say "I told you so" if I don't speculate in advance.
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