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Daudy



Joined: Aug 28, 2008

Post   Posted: May 29, 2018 - 11:53 Reply with quote Back to top

Grod wrote:

You can also carry cash to pay for the new team. That could easily be 150-200K if you are prudent (don't rebuy injured players etc, run loners etc). Is that part of your analysis?


He mentions that earlier in reference to Expensive Mistakes, so I'm sure he's considered it. Sounds like a pretty good TV range to be dorfs with few predators around, hey? Razz

EM is also the exact reason why all this talk about the full financial rules (if ever implemented) being some sort of godsend is also just optimistic. You may be able to get hundreds of thousands of dollars per game with full stadium rules, yadda yadda, but EM effectively softcaps your savings to the EM limits + last game cash.

That, of course, is a long way off so we're stuck with the limitations of this system without the toys (friendlies, additional rules like stadiums, etc) used to somewhat alieviate them. It also places admins in an unenviable position, because unlike being a commish in person, you can't just easily houserule sensibly or implement things in this environment. So we're stuck in this hybrid that a number of us aren't convinced is better than the previous hybrid.



I also completely disagree about the likelihood of teams being scaled down versions of LRB6 teams with tight cores of interesting players.

Retirement rules (or the exponentially prohibitive cost of playing on) already rule out a lot of speculative builds that do not hog spp but would otherwise be potentially very cool or useful. The payoff for these players not always being as immediately useful (e.g. taking dodge or diving tackle on a rookie beastman instead of block for less TV) was that they COULD turn into something uniquely useful with time and luck. You no longer really have that time anymore for a large chunk of types of players given our seasons are only 7 games long, so there is even less incentive for some diversity.

On tighter budgets, you also have less support casts. All the great players had a good support cast around them, which help them gain those SPP and minimise things like random rookie 1db RIP blocks or a no assist foul RIP/RIP (which happen even with a support cast). You can address this argument a bit saying there will also be fewer counter tools available, but I think on the whole this will still be a less forgiving environment for building super players.

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Balle2000



Joined: Sep 25, 2008

Post   Posted: May 29, 2018 - 12:00 Reply with quote Back to top

Daudy casts Wall of Text lvl 3...


Smegish wrote:
clearly we aren't getting paid enough at season's end.

So you want a raise after just 7 games? We just went through a long-winded economic crisis, with many treasuries vanishing over night due to bitecoin and other methods of payment going bust. With the new frail economy in the Wastes, the league would be hazardous, at best, to enter wage negotiations after just one season. However, when a steady flow of revenue comes in, there might be more money available for the different franchises.

polemarch wrote:
OK. What does the niggle recovery mean?

Apparently an apothecary up in The Empire has researched a way of treating BB players giving them a chance at having those pesky niggling injuries cured. This advancement in medical treatment has not yet come to the Southern Wastes, however the league is considering ways of procuring this knowledge. We are in talks with a clandestine band of masked goblins, for example.
Wex



Joined: Apr 21, 2015

Post   Posted: May 29, 2018 - 12:47 Reply with quote Back to top

Daudy wrote:
EM is also the exact reason why all this talk about the full financial rules (if ever implemented) being some sort of godsend is also just optimistic. You may be able to get hundreds of thousands of dollars per game with full stadium rules, yadda yadda, but EM effectively softcaps your savings to the EM limits + last game cash.


Last 2 games (or more). EM is only rolled when you ready up, so you roll EM before your last game and after pre-season. Your last game money is never touched.
Dlock



Joined: Mar 08, 2014

Post   Posted: May 29, 2018 - 12:47 Reply with quote Back to top

Hmmmm... so, after winning the division and losing only one game, I have to get rid off players...? I thought that you werent supposed to keep more than 100k due to "expensive mistakes" or whatever they are called.

I wander how many players I could have kept with losing season?

Does this system make strong teams stronger and weaker ones even weaker?

I am officially annoyed.

- D
tussock



Joined: May 29, 2011

Post   Posted: May 29, 2018 - 13:52 Reply with quote Back to top

Sorry for where we failed to get across the idea of saving up later in the season, but it's for a good cause to do so and we did try.

My advice still
First 2-3 games, spend up, build your team, fill the gaps. Any loss of money is a waste, 90k max, get big, or at least buy inducements.

Middle 1-3 games, maybe stay under 100k, if you have anything to spend it on, especially inducements when topping up, great value can be had, but sitting at 190k is safe enough too.

Last 2-3 games, save up, build your treasury, get to 190k at game six if you can, maybe take a risk and build for 290k from mid-season for a huge payoff if it holds.

Post game 7, you don't ready your team, and the winnings there and all previous savings goes to being a bigger team next season. Average treasury after game 7 this season was 170k, I expect that to be higher in future, when there's bigger teams and better players to hang onto, and people have the hang of it a bit.


But with goblins, I'd have still spent it all on bribes. Or Ripper. Or Both. The new inducement system is wonderful for the smaller teams, 700 TV goblins would be such fun in this, and fortunately DE also get wonderful star players. Good luck in S72, Dlock.

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almic85



Joined: May 25, 2009

Post   Posted: May 29, 2018 - 15:48 Reply with quote Back to top

Would be interesting to see some meta stats on the rebuy.

No of teams that gained money and average amount gained.
No of teams that lost money and average of money lost.
Average rebuy tv for next season.
Biggest negative and positive gaps and their end of season tvs and rebuy values.
Prem, conf and Reggie end of season tv and rebuy amounts average, high and low).

Any other interesting stats?

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Irgy



Joined: Feb 21, 2007

Post   Posted: May 30, 2018 - 01:29 Reply with quote Back to top

Grod wrote:
You can also carry cash to pay for the new team. That could easily be 150-200K if you are prudent (don't rebuy injured players etc, run loners etc). Is that part of your analysis?


I personally saved up 180k (suffering EM to get there), which is the only reason I'm not sacking skilled players after one season*. So, yes, basically.

Whether other teams were saving up though I admit I don't know, it's not directly visible on the list. This might make the average position higher than it is now (but still about 600k lower than I'd like it to be).

I'll freely admit that a treasury the size that I'd like would be ridiculous for new teams though, which is why I'm proposing to tie it to divisions. And I'd recommend basing it on qualifying for the division rather than having just been in it, so that everyone in the division starts on a level playing field.

* I actually made a profit overall from the rebuy, and used said profit to buy myself back to 11 players and all positionals. I would currently still be worse off under the old system savings or not. I'm not unhappy with the system or even unhappy with the impact this season. I'm just saying that my 7 skill no reserve team looks to be the level we're staying at forever unless we make a change, and I don't look forward to that.
D_Arquebus



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: May 30, 2018 - 03:37 Reply with quote Back to top

Tomay wrote:
... We will be monitoring the effects of these rules and if required we will be making alterations. When we perfect our numbers the SWL will likely remain at a certain level for many years, so my suggestion is to just enjoy the variable environments in the meantime. At each level of TV, blood bowl has different challenges and is exciting in different ways - this is a great time to experience that with your team. You can rest assured that the league will eventually get it to click - we always do!


Smile

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tussock



Joined: May 29, 2011

Post 1 Posted: May 30, 2018 - 06:24 Reply with quote Back to top

Hey, almic*, stats!


End of season Fan Factor: 1 to 9, average 5. Win some games, slackers, uh, I mean, good luck in reggies?

End of season Treasury: 70k to 270k, average 170k. The smaller treasuries did line up with the smaller teams, it's a big chunk of your replacement TV with a shorter season.

Season 72 starting TV: 1220 to 1560, average 1390.

Prem TV: average 1450 (1310 to 1560).
Confs TV: average 1390 (1220 to 1480).
Reggie TV: average 1320 (1240 to 1410).

Some of those could be out a little, but not too much, doesn't include the new squads in reggies.

Numbers for gain is tricky, a lot of teams cut their unwanted players before I recorded them, and not everyone wants to hit the limit. Pass.

Cutting looks like 7 teams: up to -140k, average -60k, most had an injury or two that were replaced at the same time.

Biggest drop, Dlock's Dark Elves, cut to 1310 for prem. Go the big DE star players!

Biggest winner, a few teams had a lot of late cas or accumulated injuries, Wood Elves, Pro Elves, Rats, the usual suspects, probably replaced 400k+ of injuries/deaths at the top, and a couple teams like Dwarfs and Wood Elves have changed structure and effectively spent at about that much before simple replacements.

Honourable mention to Wozzaa*, who didn't even want 130k of his rebuy allowance. It was just too much money. Expensive Mistakes took care of some of that for him.

Others?

TDs went from 2 to 17, average 9.
Cas went from 4 to 21, average 11, for the blocking kind that count here.

Note: 9 TDs, +11 Cas, +7 games, +170k treasury, +5 FF = 1390 TV.

I'll guess next season conf average will be 1470 TV, FF up, MB kicking in, better treasury management. Even easier to score with those prem teams busy in prem, and people might notice at some point that playing elfball is good for both teams, as is just having a massive war mid-pitch for the bash squads.


Teams, from what I saw, spent between 250 and 600 cash on shaping the team and replacing the goofballs. Nice to have the Million just in case.

Good luck in S72 everyone, especially me, I know everyone really wants a Khemri team to finally break the big glass ceiling on AG 2 ball handlers winning prem. Very Happy

Edits: *Mostly me mixing up names. Le sigh.

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polemarch



Joined: Mar 20, 2009

Post   Posted: May 30, 2018 - 23:39 Reply with quote Back to top

If we are not doing forced retirements in the league. Is there any real reason for me to retire and rehire players with 0SPP.

I think the easiest way for me to drop my 20K in gold is to fire and rehire my blitzed with guard and a niggle. Any other advice?

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Tomay



Joined: Apr 26, 2008

Post   Posted: May 30, 2018 - 23:59 Reply with quote Back to top

We are doing "Wants to Retire", it just doesn't factor in after 1 season. That is a good way to drop 20k.

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Grod



Joined: Sep 30, 2003

Post   Posted: May 31, 2018 - 12:20 Reply with quote Back to top

Does that mean you should rehire any zero spp players ideally? You know, planning ahead?

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Wozzaa



Joined: Apr 23, 2016

Post   Posted: May 31, 2018 - 14:07 Reply with quote Back to top

I had two Black Orc Blockers on 0 SPP, I rehired so that when I start rollin for 'wants to retire' I won't have to for those two initially.

Also, the likelihood that they will want to retire goes up each season. So, having some newbies will be good in a couple of seasons.
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