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Frylen



Joined: Oct 15, 2011

Post   Posted: Mar 06, 2018 - 17:14 Reply with quote Back to top

Hi!
Half a year ago when we started a league, the founder made a mistake:
He created a league and made a new ruleset, but was unaware that teams playing in that league has to be created through the leauge in order to adopt the ruleset he created. It took a while until we noticed the situation and some of the teams grew into our hearts before the problems started to add up.

Now we can't control any rules without dismissing all teams, or is there any another way to. solve this?

Is there a chance, for instance that one could add a ruleset to a leauge division team after it has been active for a while or is there maybe a way to make tournaments that accept teams from different rulesets somehow?

//frylen (I'll donate some bucks to the page if you have contributions to solve our problems!)
koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: Mar 06, 2018 - 17:35 Reply with quote Back to top

+1

How much per team? Mr. Green

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O[L]C 2016 Swiss! - April ---- All Stars - Anniversary Bowl - Teams of Stars - 13th March
Frylen



Joined: Oct 15, 2011

Post   Posted: Mar 06, 2018 - 17:50 Reply with quote Back to top

Smile Maybe three dollar a team?
SzieberthAdam



Joined: Aug 31, 2008

Post   Posted: Mar 06, 2018 - 17:52 Reply with quote Back to top

There is a hard way to have current teams in a custom league, but it has some cons. First, teams should get cloned individually as new rosters. CIBBL follows that way and it is great as administrators have more contol over the individual teams. However, migrating existing players can NOT be done nicely because you can not set up spp for the player. So either you add them as rookies and once there is a skillup, the admins take the a skill from the player's custom position before letting the coach to pick the very same skill, or you freeze all the non-rookie players by setting them as peaked. They will not gain SPPs from that time. However you might track their achievements and resolve skillups on their custom position.

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Frylen



Joined: Oct 15, 2011

Post   Posted: Mar 06, 2018 - 18:08 Reply with quote Back to top

Ohh, Maybe I wasn't clear enough.
We play with regular LRB6ish rules and want it that way. It's just that we right now are a league but functions as a meta-group. We have no control and can't have unless our problem is solved.

Thanks for the input anyways!
Frylen



Joined: Oct 15, 2011

Post   Posted: Mar 06, 2018 - 18:10 Reply with quote Back to top

And it is important it is exactly those team with their exact players, otherwise it doesn't make the difference.
Sorry if I wasn't clear enough on that part in the opening post Sad
koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: Mar 06, 2018 - 18:17 Reply with quote Back to top

frylen wrote:
Smile Maybe three dollar a team?


If I can get mine first I'll go $10.

Though not all the teams at once. Wink

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O[L]C 2016 Swiss! - April ---- All Stars - Anniversary Bowl - Teams of Stars - 13th March
SzieberthAdam



Joined: Aug 31, 2008

Post   Posted: Mar 06, 2018 - 19:20 Reply with quote Back to top

frylen wrote:
Ohh, Maybe I wasn't clear enough.
We play with regular LRB6ish rules and want it that way. It's just that we right now are a league but functions as a meta-group. We have no control and can't have unless our problem is solved.

Thanks for the input anyways!

What control you want?

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Frylen



Joined: Oct 15, 2011

Post   Posted: Mar 06, 2018 - 20:20 Reply with quote Back to top

Well, right now we can't really change anything about any rules or client options. We have to house rule everything - like: "its forbidden to buy special play cards even though the client asks". If we were in control over the ruleset we could just uncheck the box, and the question would be no more.

It's the core of the problem really. I have a team with an original name and players that have climbed the top25 ladders on the nisched TopLists of entire fumbbl. And I have struggled through some 20 games with the team to build it into something competeable (it's ogres). If the current league/meta group we have enforce the ruleset (no team currently uses) - my team has to retire since the client won't let it play against new teams from other rulesets, which all teams will be then, (And back to my initial question: ) or is there a way to keep my very team and still apply new rules? (Allow my team to play other ruleset teams OR change the ruleset of my team?).

Your suggestions are the closest to solve it at this moment but it really doesn't fulfill all the wishes, though thanks!
pythrr



Joined: Mar 07, 2006

Post   Posted: Mar 06, 2018 - 21:09 Reply with quote Back to top

OBBA cut a deal years ago to have complete access to all client options* (including many that are "hidden", or admin only secret options such as dice-hacking (CLOUD OF DEPAIR) and the like). This cost us a a high price, including things both bodily and spiritual, and I am not sure that you would be willing to pay the dark price for this. In fact, George, our long-time admin monkey, still carries some significant scars (and hefty therapist bills) from his time on the "payment bench". /shudder







* this may be less than true.

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SzieberthAdam



Joined: Aug 31, 2008

Post   Posted: Mar 06, 2018 - 22:24 Reply with quote Back to top

What I suggested would require to recreate the teams so the FUMBBL top list positions would be lost. However, you could continue your league with teams almost identical to the current ones. I know you are not for this but for the record I write down how I would do a migration:

- Create a ruleset.
- Set your group as a League based on that ruleset.
- For each migrating team:
- - Clone the respectible roster of that team with the common positions and settings.
- - For each player of that team:
- - - Create a positional on the new roster set up as 0-1, all skills, type: Peaked, TV price. Injuries are healed or retire the injured.
- - Sum up all the palyer's price + 10k * (FF+Cheerleaders+Ass.coaces) + reroll value + treasury and set this up in the ruleset as the gold available for new team.
- - Wait the coach to create his team (this time for the group) and buy every custom players coaches, cheerleaders, fan factors, rerolls. At the end it should have the same amount of gold in the treasury.
- - Set all the custom player positionals to 0 allowed.
- - Set up the roster as non-playable as it is dedicated to that single coach who has it already.
- Set up the gold available to new teams to the default value.
- For each new team:
- - Clone a roster, let the coach create a team, then close the roster.

Pros:
* You have the control over the ruleset.
* You can do some house ruling with the rosters/teams
* You can adapt to a rulebook faster than FUMBBL official divisions.
* You can award irregular players as tournament prices.

Cons:
* You should manage skill rolls manually for the peaked players. This means bookkeeping of SPPS and using Discord+BowlBot for skill rolls with admin assistance. It will get easier over time as players die and retire.
* Cloning rosters could be a pain manually. I can help to spare such a work. PM me if you are a gold supporter and we can talk about that.

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tussock



Joined: May 29, 2011

Post   Posted: Mar 07, 2018 - 00:57 Reply with quote Back to top

Hey frylen.

Southern Survivalists League is running as a meta-group league, as after 12 seasons it is what we started with. We use custom rules setting in tournament settings to give us some control over what's happening, though we did lose Spiralling Expenses and Wizards with the BB16 changes.

You can, in tournament settings, change maximum cards to 0, for instance. SSL uses 8 cards max, and various other options to help with our league setup. To activate them, after you configure the tournament (as that also resets the custom rules), you have to tick "Use custom settings for this tournament" and any options in there you want, under "Edit" on the tournament page.

There's a lot more client and site options available in a custom ruleset, importing teams to a ruleset isn't likely to turn up terribly soon (SSL will be switching to a ruleset league after we can import the old teams), and something like SzieberthAdam's list there is the method to work around that limitation with the current tools we have for that.

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Frylen



Joined: Oct 15, 2011

Post   Posted: Mar 10, 2018 - 09:51 Reply with quote Back to top

Thank you!, SzieberthAdam. I have taken a few days to consider the few options we have and you bring forward a solution that acctually solves 4 out of 5, which is high above the 0 I anticipated before writing the original post!

I have made a few rulesets and custom rosters before but I was unaware of how the "peaked" setting worked and did not know you could add skills, like you say after teams have been made and played games.

You mention help of admins, and to clearify: you mean fumbbl staff admins? I have grown a maybe unhealthy respect of those guys so I need clear instructions how to contact them and how they will respond Smile

Anyhow the guide you wrote, despite my lack of understandment really explained and I hope it can be useful to others in the future! Thanks again

And tussock: thanks for your input as well. I was however aware of the tournament settings and I have used it before (I guess it was a bad example from my side to front with the "how do I ban cards"-problem since it's not a real problem per se). I hope you are right about the upcoming changes!

Since I have darlings on the top25 lists I am going to wait for them to desease and then I will go with SzieberthAdam's method!
Frylen



Joined: Oct 15, 2011

Post   Posted: Mar 10, 2018 - 09:56 Reply with quote Back to top

And I forgot!
Offcourse I'll do all the labour transitioning the teams myself. It was very generous of you to offer to help, though, I appreciate it!


Last edited by Frylen on Mar 10, 2018 - 11:13; edited 1 time in total
SzieberthAdam



Joined: Aug 31, 2008

Post   Posted: Mar 10, 2018 - 10:07 Reply with quote Back to top

I meant you the tournament admins. Note that with my method teams are created one by one. You setup the roster adjust the ruleset's new team gold value, then ask the coach to create his team and make it identical to the current one. It might be time consuming.

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