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Keothi



Joined: Jul 08, 2013

Post   Posted: Mar 15, 2018 - 22:16 Reply with quote Back to top

I like the mentorship approach - heck I'm keen to play more games with a coach that will pay less attention to the clock and more attention to talking about the game etc

I've had 2 abortive attempts at trying to build a competitive Orc team without Guard Spam; conclusion it doesn't work. Guard is too useful to the Orc game to overlook. Secondly, build a large and competitive Chaos Chosen team that doesn't rely on CLMB(PO) <-- now obsolete but you get my point; because I found that team build trajectory to be too predictable and I wanted to see what else worked.

I've got a great Chaos Chosen team in Ranked, my difficulty is finding anyone to play it and guide me on improving my plays/coaching decisions. I put the requests to play in gamefinder and the only takers tend to be teams of similar size but with CL+MB spam (Nurgle or Chaos variants).
awambawamb



Joined: Feb 17, 2008

Post   Posted: Mar 15, 2018 - 22:39 Reply with quote Back to top

join a perpetual league. OBBA, WIL, SLUMBBL, Club 145, are all good options.

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garyt1



Joined: Mar 12, 2011

Post   Posted: Mar 16, 2018 - 03:38 Reply with quote Back to top

Tackle spam works well for Dwarfs and Cwarfs. Granted it is a starting skill but it means dodgers have few safe spots to use their skill.
Also I wouldn't say choosing ag4 is a dilemma. Quite the opposite! For a team without ag4 it is the most important improvement you can get. At least it is on a potential ball carrier. Less so on a zombie..

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Catalyst32



Joined: Jul 14, 2008

Post   Posted: Mar 16, 2018 - 04:19 Reply with quote Back to top

Tackle spam works well.

OK... 1/2 spam... 4 to 6 players depending on your roster and TV.
almic85



Joined: May 25, 2009

Post   Posted: Mar 16, 2018 - 06:18 Reply with quote Back to top

This thread has gotten well away from if you should take +AG twice on a bull centaur.

The answer to that question is yes.

Yes you should always want a 6449 block bull centaur.

If your other bull manages to roll 2 +AG skills he should take it too.

Even the hob goblins should take +AG.

Everyone but the Chaos Dwarf Blockers themselves should take +AG if rolled.

The same goes for +MA, everyone ut the CDB's should take it.

After getting 2 AG increases your bull still has mighty blow, tackle, sure hands, strip ball, frenzy or even guard (maybe even grab to help with 1 turn touchdowns) that are all viable normal skill choices.

If you happen to roll doubles you have dodge (maybe side step or even jump up or even even LEAP!!!)

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MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Mar 16, 2018 - 14:15 Reply with quote Back to top

Keothi wrote:

I've got a great Chaos Chosen team in Ranked, my difficulty is finding anyone to play it and guide me on improving my plays/coaching decisions. I put the requests to play in gamefinder and the only takers tend to be teams of similar size but with CL+MB spam (Nurgle or Chaos variants).

Make a Chaos Chosen team in Black Box and activate, your team won't be avoided.
hutchinsfairy



Joined: Jan 23, 2015

Post   Posted: Mar 16, 2018 - 14:58 Reply with quote Back to top

To the OP:

It's only bloat if it raises the TV more than it raises the utility of the piece.

Given that you've already given him +AG once I can only assume you already intend to use him as a ball carrier. In this case the second +AG offers easily enough to be worth it.

It is functionally better than Break Tackle whilst offering ball retrieval odds similar to Sure Hands, netting you 1.5 good Bull Centaur skills for 1.5 times the cost but only using 1 early skill slot.

The fact that you also kind of get Accurate, Very Long Legs and Catch thrown in and can still take Sure Hands later make it TV cheap to my mind.
Arktoris



Joined: Feb 16, 2004

Post   Posted: Mar 16, 2018 - 19:15 Reply with quote Back to top

Keothi wrote:

I've got a great Chaos Chosen team in Ranked, my difficulty is finding anyone to play it and guide me on improving my plays/coaching decisions. I put the requests to play in gamefinder and the only takers tend to be teams of similar size but with CL+MB spam (Nurgle or Chaos variants).


Ranked...you get out of it what you put into it. No free rides.

btw, if you happen to be around during NA hours, Batman and Robin would love to play them.

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Hail to Manowar! The latest charioteer to DIE for bloodbowl! - Slain, by Ghor Oggaz
PurpleChest



Joined: Oct 25, 2003

Post   Posted: Mar 16, 2018 - 20:09
FUMBBL Staff
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Keothi wrote:
I've got a great Chaos Chosen team in Ranked, my difficulty is finding anyone to play it and guide me on improving my plays/coaching decisions. I put the requests to play in gamefinder and the only takers tend to be teams of similar size but with CL+MB spam (Nurgle or Chaos variants).


I wouldn't worry. You've basically just lit a beacon on the hill screaming 'I'm a relative noob with a big chaos team without kill skills and only 2 tackles'. the sharks will come, with their elves.

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Barbarus hic ego sum, quia non intelligor illis -Ovid
I am a barbarian here because i am not understood by anyone
noobie2k7



Joined: Sep 28, 2012

Post   Posted: Mar 16, 2018 - 20:43 Reply with quote Back to top

PurpleChest wrote:
Keothi wrote:
I've got a great Chaos Chosen team in Ranked, my difficulty is finding anyone to play it and guide me on improving my plays/coaching decisions. I put the requests to play in gamefinder and the only takers tend to be teams of similar size but with CL+MB spam (Nurgle or Chaos variants).


I wouldn't worry. You've basically just lit a beacon on the hill screaming 'I'm a relative noob with a big chaos team without kill skills and only 2 tackles'. the sharks will come, with their elves.
Well, the shArktoris has already arrived xD

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mrt1212



Joined: Feb 26, 2013

Post   Posted: Mar 16, 2018 - 20:45 Reply with quote Back to top

lol sharktoris
pythrr



Joined: Mar 07, 2006

Post   Posted: Mar 16, 2018 - 20:51 Reply with quote Back to top

who da dog trainer?

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thoralf



Joined: Mar 06, 2008

Post   Posted: Mar 16, 2018 - 21:21 Reply with quote Back to top

Nobody expects the Arknado.

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PurpleChest



Joined: Oct 25, 2003

Post   Posted: Mar 16, 2018 - 21:55
FUMBBL Staff
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So. A noob got some very good advice from a lot of people, including in how to take advice. I can't fault any of it, even the multiple bashing of Kick Off Return as an option for his +2AG Bull. indeed it prompted both Antithesisoftime and mrt1212 into a lovely few posts explaining some of the complex concepts behind the general skill progression and opportunity cost/risk analysis that underpins choices in this game. All of it golden and truly great advice.

But it was me who first suggested KoR as a possible option for the 6th choice on the +2ag Bull. And Keothi took the grief for taking me seriously. Well I was serious, so come flame me.

First in my defence: I did suggest sure hands and tackle forst and second, and if skills 4,5 and 6 were all normal to take SF. OR anything as he's awesome. Then I suggested KoR as part of 'anything'. Here's why...

This is being asked by a new player. The suggestion is, for the 6th skill specifically, what to take on a Bull that already has +2ag Block, Sure Hands and Tackle.

I am assuming at this stage that the Blodge Bull has BT and at least one other skill, hopefully Tackle or MB. And that of the 6 CDB most will have guard and MB and hopefully one or two have Claw and a couple of other useful add ons, maybe some SF and even a DT (turn claw down for another double? NO!). I am also assuming the Mino is dead, or the coach was wise enough to never have one. The hobgobs should show a dp, but otherwise be the cheap filler they ought to be.

The team must surely be 1800+. So what are your risks? What does threat assessment tell you is the big worries here?

It isnt defence, as Cd are very good without the ball and you have a blodgeBT hitter and an ag4 fetcher, LOS dominating/Holding (depending on opponents team) CDB's and some untrustworthy filler quick enough to assist the Bulls and act like flies around the key areas.

It isnt breaking for the line, as again you have a solid looking cage to burst from and a matey bull to go with you and possibly some hobgobs to muddy it up.

Everyone fears the cage break, but your CDB's should be able to throw you a decent cage, and even then they are trying to take down a str4.

No. To me it's the first turn. Getting enough hitting and postional work done while safely retrieving the ball. The CDB are slow, the hobgobs not worth a damn, and the other Bull likely blitzing.

'But I have ag4 with sure hands and move 9' you smirk.

And you shouldn't because smirking is for fools. So is trusting sure feet to give you that MA9. You HAVE ma6, you can risk ma9. And MA6 str based teams do well with KoR.

Countless are the people that miss the using of sure feet and take the second and third GFI not realising they are down to reroll cover or none. Also we all know the number one killer of Bulls is missed GFI.* Avoiding needing them is far better then planning to use them for key actions.

Even if you move your 9 and scoop the ball, here come the dancers and the gutters. At this TV they'll have DT and SS, and they wont come alone, they'll come in packs.

Or if the turn ends early, a quad skull or a failed GFI you needed to make the other Bull safe after Blitzing (or you're a fool with a Mino) then the Bull with ag4 is a lot nearer the Ball.

I posit that, especially as a new player, and only on the 6th skill if no doubles were ever rolled, and only if you dont prefer SF or Guard (which I would) then KoR allows you to make safer possibly the riskiest turns of the game, your ball recovery and squirreling it away near some hitty guard before some filthy elf ties you up. You have played with 5 skills from 76 all the way to 176, now might well be the time to secure that ball better, because you might have everything you need elsewhere already.

TLDR?- I was right all along KoR rocks.





*(not statistically, or in any way, actually true)

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Barbarus hic ego sum, quia non intelligor illis -Ovid
I am a barbarian here because i am not understood by anyone
Arktoris



Joined: Feb 16, 2004

Post   Posted: Mar 16, 2018 - 22:25 Reply with quote Back to top

PurpleChest wrote:
I wouldn't worry. You've basically just lit a beacon on the hill screaming 'I'm a relative noob with a big chaos team without kill skills and only 2 tackles'. the sharks will come, with their elves.


got to bring *something* to the table to make the game worth your opponent's time. He wants a non-claw phile opponent...I want ELF points.

the art of the deal.

any dull witted joe schmoe can make only killer teams with cliche cut-throat skills and use cliche tactics.

To be good at Bloodbowl, you got to be smarter than that. you have to be good at the psychological half of the game too, not just the math/odds half.

This is why despite the mountain of charity and second chances Box has gotten over the years...Ranked is still the premiere division of fumbbl.

From those of us that don't have a problem getting a game, to those of you that do:

No

Free

Rides

"Sharktoris" out

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Hail to Manowar! The latest charioteer to DIE for bloodbowl! - Slain, by Ghor Oggaz
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