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Rags



Joined: Nov 09, 2008

Post   Posted: Apr 06, 2018 - 13:55 Reply with quote Back to top

I think it's great. Gives options. Star types can hog if you like, but if linemen pick up an SPP or two, personally I like to put them in the mix as well. Can get kicker, dirt bag, block/wrestle on the LOS, or whatever you're having yourself Coach.
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Apr 06, 2018 - 14:15 Reply with quote Back to top

The old system made harder to build up slow skilling players like BOBs, Saurus and Tomb Guardians and it could be frustrating to get the MVP on a dead/crippled player.
For sure the MVP is not a fitting name for randomly assigned SPPs not necessarily based on actual in-game performance.
Maybe a better system could be giving 1 SPP to every player after a game (to help a steady growth of the team) and assigning 1d6 SPPs randomly to one of them, or a system based on actual performance, so only players who gained 1 or more SPPs in-game could be nominated for the MVP.
The current system looks to me "intensive training" rather than an MVP.
ArrestedDevelopment



Joined: Sep 14, 2015

Post   Posted: Apr 06, 2018 - 14:57 Reply with quote Back to top

Sp00keh wrote:
Probably the biggest beneficiary of MVP rule is Underworld.



How is this even remotely true?

You can do as you say, however it does not change the fact you still have half a team of stunties. It also doesn't change the fact that one of the three you've highlighted is really stupid and the other two are st3. You could also score pretty easily with the blitzers anyway.

But you know, well done, you've made minmax underworld. Which you could do 100x more effectively in CRP just by virtue of having PO as an option and firing goblins.

UW are not huge beneficiaries of this at all imo, especially since all the teams around them are able to stack MVPs on low agi players, or are starting on a better base.

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Sp00keh



Joined: Dec 06, 2011

Post   Posted: Apr 06, 2018 - 15:44 Reply with quote Back to top

It's totally true

UW are a roster that sucks, yes
They have stunties, yes
Minmax yes. It's probably required for much success with the fairly weak roster

Minmax is now much easier with new MVP rule, because they have just 3 key players
Plus not having to fire goblins

Other rosters can also allocate MVP, yes.
I am contending that UW have benefited the most from new MVP rule
Please provide a roster who has benefited more, if you disagree
ArrestedDevelopment



Joined: Sep 14, 2015

Post   Posted: Apr 06, 2018 - 16:02 Reply with quote Back to top

Okay, here's how I'm going to refute this:

1. Pretty much every roster benefits massively from D3 mvp.
2. Minmax isn't actually long-term effective for many coaches, especially with weaker rosters. While frontloading your UW might help you short-term, if you bother to check any od the long-term winning UW teams you will see that they always have multi-skilled players, and usually some double-skill-roll goblins.
3. Only having 3-5 skilled players is not going to win you many games past games 1-15.
4. If I must actually engage your idea, then Vampires benefit a hell of a lot more and have the same "regen + apo", Lizardmen also benefit hugely.

You post a lot of theorybowl on these forums, and have done for years, and it has *never* been backed up by your own on-field results.

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Arktoris



Joined: Feb 16, 2004

Post   Posted: Apr 06, 2018 - 16:11 Reply with quote Back to top

Underworld got nerf'd with the loss of piling on. new rules kicked their tails.

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MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Apr 06, 2018 - 16:34 Reply with quote Back to top

Arktoris wrote:
Underworld got nerf'd with the loss of piling on. new rules kicked their tails.

It's true that loss of PO weakened UW, on the other hand they don't face PO either.
thoralf



Joined: Mar 06, 2008

Post   Posted: Apr 06, 2018 - 17:00 Reply with quote Back to top

Shorter Chainsaw wrote:
The rulz makes me do stuff that makes me have less fun..

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DrPoods



Joined: Nov 14, 2013

Post   Posted: Apr 06, 2018 - 17:11 Reply with quote Back to top

I like lamp.

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pythrr



Joined: Mar 07, 2006

Post   Posted: Apr 06, 2018 - 17:20 Reply with quote Back to top

to be honest, skills were better when they were random...

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Sp00keh



Joined: Dec 06, 2011

Post   Posted: Apr 06, 2018 - 17:40 Reply with quote Back to top

AD yes vamps and lizard are both good examples, we both agreed on that already
Minmax is a bit of a side topic.. but imo UW have just 3 key players to really build.

Even if you do spread skills around, UW are still the roster with the fewest key positionals, imo
Hence they benefited most. Vamps and lizards both have more key players who need skills, your MVP allocation will be not as focused


When player gets to 76 SPP you'd stop giving him MVP, though... So when the first UW blitzer does that, you'd definitely be spreading skills around.
At that point, vamps would be benefiting more, yes


Last edited by Sp00keh on Apr 06, 2018 - 17:54; edited 1 time in total
thoralf



Joined: Mar 06, 2008

Post   Posted: Apr 06, 2018 - 17:52 Reply with quote Back to top

Sp00keh wrote:
UW have just 3 key players to really build.


This applies to every race except perhaps Flings.

To determine what race benefits most from the new MVP rule does not suffice to tell us if that benefit increase makes that race OP or even if that changes the "tier" order, assuming it exists.

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Sp00keh



Joined: Dec 06, 2011

Post   Posted: Apr 06, 2018 - 17:57 Reply with quote Back to top

Yea, I definitely wasn't talking about tiers or overall power. It just relates to team building, really.
I'm saying UW have had their team building process made better, more than other rosters had theirs made better.

Not sure what you mean really about 3 players only on every roster thoralf? Lizardmen have 6 saurus who all want skills, no?
Maybe should have said positionals instead of players


Last edited by Sp00keh on Apr 06, 2018 - 18:02; edited 1 time in total
awambawamb



Joined: Feb 17, 2008

Post   Posted: Apr 06, 2018 - 17:59 Reply with quote Back to top

pythrr wrote:
to be honest, skills were better when they were random...


and doubles

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thoralf



Joined: Mar 06, 2008

Post   Posted: Apr 06, 2018 - 18:28 Reply with quote Back to top

Sp00keh wrote:

Not sure what you mean really about 3 players only on every roster thoralf? Lizardmen have 6 saurus who all want skills, no?
Maybe should have said positionals instead of players


I am not sure what you mean by 3 players in UW either.

UW has two blitzers, two trolls*, a thrower, and ideally The Ultimate Gobbo. Even normal rats could use a MVP from time to time.

Lizzies cannot build six saurii all at the same time, so you could focus on three, and keep the others for LOS duty.

The new MVP rule is all about speeding up development. This helps everyone more or less equally, in my opinion. The speed one gains can be spread faster with high SPP teams, but at least nobody should get stuck with unskilled positionals after half of a season.

BB16 is all about seasons, which is the elephant in this room.

[*] Clarification: Quarion8 brought to my attention that there's one troll that can take SPPs, for UW only has one on the field. We may then presume that the other is in the coaching staff.

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Last edited by thoralf on Apr 06, 2018 - 22:46; edited 2 times in total
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