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Poll
What to do with the Slann Blitzer?
No changes needed, the skill access makes up for the price.
29%
 29%  [ 44 ]
Discount Blitzer Please.
25%
 25%  [ 38 ]
Exchange diving tackle or jump up for block.
11%
 11%  [ 17 ]
Stop Complaining.
33%
 33%  [ 49 ]
Total Votes : 148


gpope



Joined: Jun 04, 2010

Post   Posted: May 09, 2018 - 23:58 Reply with quote Back to top

JmBeers wrote:
The two positions that seem to compare directly to the Slann blitzer are the Norse berserker, and the Dark witch elf. All three of these potions get no discount compared to their team's lineman and all three of these players have jump up.


Norse zerkers are technically a 10k discount; Jump Up is a doubles skill for them.

Witch Elves are arguably a 20k discount; for 40k they get 3 skills and +MA/-AV, which is generally a neutral trade at worst.

Reckoning player value this way is a very rough guideline, so this doesn't necessarily mean much by itself. But Slann really weren't designed to be fully competitive with most teams (and aren't), so it's hard not to see the blitzer pricing as a deliberate attempt to hobble them. Whether that's a problem that demands fixing is a matter of opinion.


Last edited by gpope on May 09, 2018 - 23:58; edited 1 time in total
Nightbird



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: May 09, 2018 - 23:58 Reply with quote Back to top

Sounds like you want narrow tier BB matt? If so I'm cool w/ that. It bothers me that I can't both choose a race (halflings) that I am drawn to & truly be competitive. Anyways, yes, Slann blitzers are overpriced.

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garyt1



Joined: Mar 12, 2011

Post   Posted: May 10, 2018 - 00:37 Reply with quote Back to top

They are a poor low TV team, but seem to be a good mid TV team. Probably not bad that there are some races that are a bit niche..
I do sometimes wonder what to do when facing a Slaan side with some skilled leapers. Especially if lacking a really sturdy ball carrier.

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Catalyst32



Joined: Jul 14, 2008

Post   Posted: May 10, 2018 - 02:18 Reply with quote Back to top

I wouldn't change the skills. I like seeing skills you normally would take in slot 3, 4, or 5 loaded on at the beginning. And I think Jump Up is a very underrated skill.

I also like how the Blitzer starting skills work together and can influence the game in a unique way. Plus... what sort of skills would a Giant Humanoid Frog have "naturally" before he gets any "training"? Jump Up, Diving Tackle and Leap fit the Fluff PERFECTLY.

If a Slann Positional comes with some fluffy but useless skills it is the Catchers. Diving Catch is not worth having. Blitzers AV9 which would help keep them around longer (at least until the CLAW comes to town). But... idk... would that fix it? idk

And IF you say "DISCOUNT"... How much discount? 10K? More? How much?
asteflix



Joined: Jan 20, 2014

Post   Posted: May 10, 2018 - 02:42 Reply with quote Back to top

Slann are really strong, just look at HappyGrue. And please don't buff them, us in NBFL have to contend with him every year in the superbowl.

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D_Arquebus



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: May 10, 2018 - 03:07 Reply with quote Back to top

Diving Tackle is one of the best skills in the game.

Leaping at Dodge Value (VLL) for the whole team means they fundamentally change the way teams have to defend against them.

I put 4 Blitzers in my Slaan teams as soon as I can afford them. Normally start 2/2/ Linos and 4 RRs...

Wouldn't complain about a small price drop, but would fight tooth and nail to avoid losing DT and JU for Block or Wrestle...

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thoralf



Joined: Mar 06, 2008

Post   Posted: May 10, 2018 - 04:35 Reply with quote Back to top

MattDakka wrote:
Slann Blitzers are overpriced indeed, who cares if they have Diving Tackle and Jump Up


I do, and I'm sure Grue does too.

Four Diving Tackle and Leapspam wins games. Jump Up makes up for MA7.

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PaddyMick



Joined: Jan 03, 2012

Post   Posted: May 10, 2018 - 12:23 Reply with quote Back to top

i'd knock off 10k
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: May 10, 2018 - 14:33 Reply with quote Back to top

Nightbird wrote:
Sounds like you want narrow tier BB matt? If so I'm cool w/ that. It bothers me that I can't both choose a race (halflings) that I am drawn to & truly be competitive. Anyways, yes, Slann blitzers are overpriced.

Yes I'd like closer tiers.
Halflings could be more playable and fun with some tweaks, like new positionals (0-4 Catchers/Runners with AG 4 AV 6, while normal Halflings could have AG 3 AV 7), a rostered Master Chef, Sure Hands as Agility/General skill, and a discount of 10 TV from each skill/stat taken by a Stunty player (i.e. a normal skill would cost 10 TV, a double 20 TV, +MA 20 TV, +AG 30 TV, +ST 40 TV).
thoralf wrote:

Four Diving Tackle and Leapspam wins games. Jump Up makes up for MA7.

Hard to see 4 Slann Blitzers in the Box, honestly.
I never said that Diving Tackle and Jump Up are useless, my point was that they would be absolutely better with a starting core skill Blitzer-related (be it Wrestle or Block) because they would be more reliable when blitzing (as Blitzers are supposed to do), more useful as sackers even when rookie and blodged up at 6 SPPs.
With one skill slot now free, they could take either Mighty Blow or Guard or Side Step or Tackle at 16 SPPs.
Moreover, replacing them when a league is running would be faster and less frustrating.
Let's not forget that with Spiralling Mistakes 110k is a critical price; cheaper Blitzers with Wrestle or Block (way more important) than Jump Up and Diving Tackle would be better.
Because there is no Blitzer without Wrestle or Block (well Bull Centaurs are Blitzers according to the silly new name, but they are multi-role players rather than pure Blitzers and they have ST 4 so they can't start with Block), but there are many Blitzers without Jump Up and Diving Tackle.
Jump Up and Diving Tackle have their uses, but have lower priority than Wrestle/Block, especially on a team already lacking desperately the best core skills (Block, Dodge, Wrestle) in the game.

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petalwarfare



Joined: May 23, 2017

Post   Posted: May 10, 2018 - 15:26 Reply with quote Back to top

I have thought about what if they started with Wrestle/Block and took a way a skill. I think if they did then they wouldn't be Slann Blitzer but just like any other one. Slann at low TV are just hard to play period compared to other races. I think you just understand that if you get stats on the blitzer then they become gamewinners. The skill access they have though means doubles aren't really useful for them so the upgrade path is relatively straightforward

Now in the box, Slann are much harder because of the kill factor removing peices from the team that are hard to replace in the box. But the box is the box and you understand it. I play primarily Slann because of the differences and I think others do as well. They can do things other teams can't and they lack things that make them a challenge.
harvestmouse



Joined: May 13, 2007

Post   Posted: May 10, 2018 - 18:19 Reply with quote Back to top

The slann niche was oddball but a superior being. so core skills go against there nature. They descended from aliens afterall. It does kind of feel like theyre are paying for their skill access though, which shouldnt be the case.
JackassRampant



Joined: Feb 26, 2011

Post   Posted: May 10, 2018 - 18:33 Reply with quote Back to top

Maybe 100k blitzers? Happygrue would be no more insufferable with an extra 40k handicap.

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Malmir



Joined: May 20, 2008

Post   Posted: May 10, 2018 - 18:58 Reply with quote Back to top

Slann are awesome. Such fun to play. Once my period of mourning ends for my lost str4 ag4 blitzer, I'll be back playing them again. Blitzers are awesome btw and jump up and diving tackle are actually very useful though I wouldn't take them through choice so to have them 'free' is very helpful. Bit like thick skull on dwarves.
Kondor



Joined: Apr 04, 2008

Post   Posted: May 10, 2018 - 19:48 Reply with quote Back to top

This is Slann in the box utilized by the best Slann coach around. This is why Slann need no changes. They just need good coaches to decide to use them.

https://fumbbl.com/p/team?team_id=890495

12-2-1 It is hard to imagine a better record with any other team. No changes needed.
Shraaaag



Joined: Feb 15, 2004

Post   Posted: May 10, 2018 - 20:48 Reply with quote Back to top

Slann lineman is too cheap, make it more expensive so the blitzers seem cheaper.

To elaborate: Slann linemen have the same cost and statline as chaos chosen beastmen runner. The beastmen get 1 normal skillchoice (horns) and strength and mutation access, and the slann lineman get 1 double skillchoice (leap) and a mutation (very long legs). This supports the first choice in the poll, that skill access makes up for the cost. Or slann linemen are too cheap.

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Last edited by Shraaaag on May 10, 2018 - 22:20; edited 2 times in total
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