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Poll
What to do with the Slann Blitzer?
No changes needed, the skill access makes up for the price.
29%
 29%  [ 44 ]
Discount Blitzer Please.
25%
 25%  [ 39 ]
Exchange diving tackle or jump up for block.
11%
 11%  [ 18 ]
Stop Complaining.
33%
 33%  [ 50 ]
Total Votes : 151


tussock



Joined: May 29, 2011

Post   Posted: May 30, 2018 - 10:26 Reply with quote Back to top

Catalyst32 wrote:
Why would you choose to Dodge with a player that has AG3, Diving Tackle and Jump Up?


Because you want to move nine or less squares and put your DT on the guy you want it on, or covering the space that's useful, instead of maybe hitting the guy your opponent has left next to to your jump up for the sake of stopping him there.

Jump Up means your prone blitzer can DT half the map, if he can make a dodge at 8:1 odds for without wasting a team RR, that's often an excellent thing to do with a couple of them each and every turn, instead of wasting your time hitting some random zombie after you move an assist to the equally useless part of the field and then make a 2+ to block.

Don't mind pro on primary sackers, but those are the catchers, not the blitzers. Frog blitzers are pitch control, they need to move, and any competent opponent will make them dodge to do that.

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cdassak



Joined: Oct 23, 2013

Post   Posted: May 30, 2018 - 11:45 Reply with quote Back to top

Catalyst32 wrote:
Best skill to have Dodge or Pro:

When Dodging... DODGE
When Picking up Ball... PRO
When Going For It... PRO
When Catching... PRO
When Passing... PRO
When Leaping... PRO

When Blocking... PRO
When Jumping Up to Block.. PRO
When being Blocked w/o Tackle... DODGE
When being Blocked w Tackle... TIE
When doing absolutely nothing... TIE
When Fouling... PRO (actually, idk... can you use Pro on fouls?)



A similar case can be made for Block vs Pro.
Block is only good for blocking and getting blocked while Pro is better for all other actions.

How about Pro vs Guard? Guard doesnt help the player in any action (it does help his teammates blocking and getting blocked though)

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Harad



Joined: May 11, 2014

Post   Posted: May 30, 2018 - 12:29 Reply with quote Back to top

And critically this analysis misses the big point: not all rerolls are equal. How valuable is the reroll? For example if it is a pass or a catch, it's likely to be a critical action (although not definitely) and so it's far more likely you use a team reroll than trust in pro. And even within each action there is a scale of importance.
Or a slightly more subtle example, weaker coaches tend to roll more dice and so have greater need for rerolls than do stronger coaches on average and so they are likely to perceive the value of rerolls differently.
Cloggy



Joined: Sep 23, 2004

Post   Posted: May 30, 2018 - 12:46 Reply with quote Back to top

How charitable of you to call that silly rant an analysis Razz

Pro... LOL

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Proud owner of three completed Ranked grids, sadly lacking in having a life.
MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: May 30, 2018 - 13:58 Reply with quote Back to top

Catalyst32 wrote:

Why would you choose to Dodge with a player that has AG3, Diving Tackle and Jump Up?

Maybe because he's adjacent to a player with Claw/Mb (or just Mb)?
You know, even with Dodge you don't want to risk being knocked down and injured, hence the need to dodge.
thoralf



Joined: Mar 06, 2008

Post   Posted: May 30, 2018 - 18:17 Reply with quote Back to top

Catalyst32 wrote:
There ARE better skills available that have synergy with the Slann Blitzer.


A claim, at LAST!

OR is it?

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There is always Sneaky Git.
bghandras



Joined: Feb 06, 2011

Post   Posted: May 30, 2018 - 19:59 Reply with quote Back to top

One could argue that the lack of dodge makes divingtackle less synergistic. And i would believe it!

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cdassak



Joined: Oct 23, 2013

Post   Posted: May 31, 2018 - 00:16 Reply with quote Back to top

Fine points all around

@catalyst32
give us some theoretical examples of Slann teams going pro
say one at 1750 (good for a BAR Brawl Low - say 5FF), one at 2100 (good for the XFL or a BAR Brawl High - say 9FF) and one at 2400 (good for a Major - say 12FF)

So many options in the Slann roster but lets say Blitzer heavy build (that's what we're talking about) with Apo.

Krox /no Krox, 0 / 1 / 2 catchers, 3RR/4RR, +Stat up to you.

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mrt1212



Joined: Feb 26, 2013

Post   Posted: May 31, 2018 - 00:31 Reply with quote Back to top

Catalyst32 rolls too many dice ergo he puts too much stock in Pro. Fin.
garyt1



Joined: Mar 12, 2011

Post   Posted: May 31, 2018 - 00:41 Reply with quote Back to top

If you have diving tackle and you plan to get sidestep, it makes sense to get Dodge on the way inbetween..
Even without sidestep the diving tackler is someone who is likely to be hit but you don't want being knocked down easily. Unless absorbing a blitz is enough.
As folks have said Pro has its uses. But you can't trust in it.

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“A wise man can learn more from a foolish question than a fool can learn from a wise answer.”
cdassak



Joined: Oct 23, 2013

Post   Posted: May 31, 2018 - 01:01 Reply with quote Back to top

mrt1212 wrote:
Catalyst32 rolls too many dice ergo he puts too much stock in Pro. Fin.


He does obviously, his only developped Slann at 2240 have:

5RR

no Pro or Dodge on the Blitzers

one wrestle/pro/fend Catcher which I don't know why isn't a blodge/sh or even a wrestle/SB/dauntless Catcher

one wrestle/pro/fend Lino which could be a wrestle/sb/tackle (or dauntless) one

and an injured Block/Pro/Dauntless Lino which would be better gone or Block/Kick/Tackle (or Fend)

Still, would be interesting to see how (bad) such teams would look ideally.

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mrt1212



Joined: Feb 26, 2013

Post   Posted: May 31, 2018 - 01:04 Reply with quote Back to top

cdassak wrote:
mrt1212 wrote:
Catalyst32 rolls too many dice ergo he puts too much stock in Pro. Fin.


He does obviously, his only developped Slann at 2240 have:

5RR

no Pro or Dodge on the Blitzers

one wrestle/pro/fend Catcher which I don't know why isn't a blodge/sh or even a wrestle/SB/dauntless Catcher

one wrestle/pro/fend Lino which could be a wrestle/sb/tackle (or dauntless) one

and an injured Block/Pro/Dauntless Lino which would be better gone or Block/Kick/Tackle (or Fend)

Still, would be interesting to see how (bad) such teams would look ideally.


WHAT?!

To think we've spent any amount of time indulging him...
Balle2000



Joined: Sep 25, 2008

Post   Posted: May 31, 2018 - 03:40 Reply with quote Back to top

Godspeed slann blitzer you black emperor
thoralf



Joined: Mar 06, 2008

Post   Posted: May 31, 2018 - 03:59 Reply with quote Back to top

Harad wrote:
And critically this analysis misses the big point: not all rerolls are equal. How valuable is the reroll?


CATALYST already answered that one, Harad:

CATALYST wrote:
If I would chose Pro 1st it would be at a moment that it would be OK for the turn to end... but it could be AWESOME for it to continue. (Or maybe it would just be smart to save the Team Reroll at the moment.)


I'm not sure what it MEANS, but that's a response.

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Sp00keh



Joined: Dec 06, 2011

Post   Posted: May 31, 2018 - 09:07 Reply with quote Back to top

mrt1212 wrote:
WHAT?!

To think we've spent any amount of time indulging him...

The only excuse is that there's not much else going on in the forum
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