Catalyst32
Joined: Jul 14, 2008
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 Posted:
Jul 11, 2018 - 06:14 |
 
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| awambawamb wrote: | | Catalyst32 wrote: | | If you can't cherry pick Noobs how will Noobs get games in Ranked? |
the FUMBBL paradox |
I believe we just stumbled onto something here. I said what it was and you aptly named it. |
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tussock
Joined: May 29, 2011
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| Posted:
Jul 11, 2018 - 06:34 |
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You don't have to play your absolute min-max stats and dubs team against new coaches.
You don't have to play a 16 turn foul-fest grind to double stalled 2-0 against new coaches.
You don't have to play your leap strippers against no sure hands team against new coaches.
You don't even have to play one of the stronger rosters against new coaches.
But if you do, you'll win heaps and get a pretty good Ranked CR.  |
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JackassRampant
Joined: Feb 26, 2011
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Jul 11, 2018 - 16:55 |
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Bah, I just play what I wanna play. Sometimes that's optimal, sometimes it's just viable. Unfortunately, the rosters I enjoy playing in both short and long term tend to be fast-starters, like Humans, Underworld, Undead, Orcs, etc. (I guess I play High Elves sometimes, but that's the only exception.) So when I run into noobs, I usually splatter them. I try to be a nice guy about it, and I often give new coaches pointers and encouragement after the match, then direct them to the Faculty and 145 Club. Doesn't lead to fun games, and it means I have to seek out bad matchups vs good coaches sometimes to stay out of the top 50 overall and avoid the dreaded Legend tag ("thou shalt only play lemonpickers," yay), but at the hours I play, I can't afford to be picky. Is this acceptable?
EDIT/ADDENDUM: @ Tussock, I don't feel it's respectful or competitive to take it too easy on a beaten opponent, at least to the extent that you give them opportunities: it's a "competitive" division so I feel like I'm supposed to play in a "competitive" manner (doesn't mean 16 fouls, necessarily, but it does mean either keeping the boot down or running up the score), and while I might run up the score intstead of stalling, I can't tell which is more disheartening. Really, the disheartening feeling comes from getting your tail kicked, and I can't exactly agree not to do that, now can I? Besides, if you wanna get good, you need to learn what a successful game plan looks like, so what's they point in playing a much better coach if not an object lesson in how to dominate? I think that as a coach, while you shouldn't game matchups vs newcomers too much, you kinda have twin responsibilities to try to help the community grow while simultaneously maintaining the bare-knuckles spirit of competitive BB, which can and does lead to butt-hurt. It's a delicate balance.
Mentoring program? Maybe that's what we need. I've put such things together, for Toastmasters. Perhaps that's the way forward. I mean, we've got the Faculty already, and that's a good jumping-off point for this; it's underused and has a lot of talent on board. |
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Lude enixe, obliviscatur timor. |
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mrt1212
Joined: Feb 26, 2013
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Jul 11, 2018 - 18:00 |
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I second the idea of a mentoring program. 145 is great but it's not where the games are and the lack of carryover in teams can be a hurdle some coaches won't leap over. Personally, I'm reluctant to play Ranked because all my teams I adore are in Box.
I pinged Christer about the rollout of LFG2 which has an integrated chat function but he has no idea when he'll deploy it. The ability to qualify your coaching counterparty in a Ranked game and help guide the neophytes to an experience they'll enjoy and learn from would be great in my estimation. One of the stumbling blocks for me personally with Ranked is not knowing what the other coach is actually looking for and why I like Box is the implicit assumption that people in there are there to play the game to the best of their abilities and already have some understanding of how the game works.
Within Ranked there is a wide spectrum of what the counterparty wants from a game - a learning experience, a fun one off between two goblins teams (hat tip The_Murker), a practice for a tourney or league game coming up, team building, etc etc. I don't make any of those assumptions within Box for the counterparty even though I have varying motives from game to game - mostly it oscillates between team building, pruning nasty opposing teams, and flexing nuts with one of my ultra high TV abominations. |
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Rbthma
Joined: Jan 14, 2009
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Jul 11, 2018 - 18:24 |
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Yeah, despite some other coaches claiming R to be rife with pickers there's certainly a variety of motivations to play in R. I'm assuming the idea with LFG2 would be to somehow mark your team as a mentoring team on the gamefinder - or just identify it as such in the chat?
Either way it would help a lot and a good initiative! |
Last edited by Rbthma on %b %11, %2018 - %18:%Jul; edited 1 time in total |
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Arktoris
Joined: Feb 16, 2004
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| Posted:
Jul 11, 2018 - 18:30 |
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I see some elaborate solutions...but I'm confused as to what's the problem. |
_________________
Hail to Manowar! The latest charioteer to DIE for bloodbowl! - Slain, by Ghor Oggaz |
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mrt1212
Joined: Feb 26, 2013
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| Posted:
Jul 11, 2018 - 18:31 |
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| Rbthma wrote: | Yeah, despite some other coaches claiming R to be rife with pickers there's certainly a variety of motivations to play in R. I'm assuming the idea with LFG2 would be to somehow mark your team as a mentoring team somehow on the gamefinder - or just identify it as such in the chat?
Either way it would help a lot and a good initiative! |
https://fumbbl.com/p/lfg2 This is the mockup of LFG2 Christer has designed. My SOP with using this would be to chat with coaches that green light me and ask what they're looking for in the experience. Or perhaps announce that I'm there looking to help neophytes looking for pointers and whatnot. |
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mrt1212
Joined: Feb 26, 2013
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| Posted:
Jul 11, 2018 - 18:37 |
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| Arktoris wrote: | | I see some elaborate solutions...but I'm confused as to what's the problem. |
The problem is the bathtub is draining faster than it is filling. This might not seem like a problem for folks like you and me who will be here until the very end and have a social cache to fall on to gin up games. But for the uninitiated, the inexperienced, the transnationals from BB2 or TT, we as a community, need to step up a bit more so that we and others will have play mates for a long long time.
Edit: I've gone on and on about what Blood Bowl means to me and I really hope to impart some of that on other folks along my journey. It's a great game that helps you understand yourself and build resiliency to bum deals. It's not everything but it touches on everything and is a fun metaphor for life.
All us long tenured coaches know that this game isn't for everyone but...if we can convert nascent interest to full blown addiction it bodes better for all of us. Surely you'd like to get a little more practice against Khemri with Hail Mary Pass, right?  |
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Arktoris
Joined: Feb 16, 2004
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Jul 11, 2018 - 19:19 |
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heh, you watched that game huh. I got robbed
so the problem is the diminishing game volume and looking how to attract and keep the interest of new players? |
_________________
Hail to Manowar! The latest charioteer to DIE for bloodbowl! - Slain, by Ghor Oggaz |
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mrt1212
Joined: Feb 26, 2013
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| Posted:
Jul 11, 2018 - 19:26 |
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| Arktoris wrote: | heh, you watched that game huh. I got robbed
so the problem is the diminishing game volume and looking how to attract and keep the interest of new players? |
I wouldn't miss an Exorcists game if I could help it. That it was against Bazakstine's Khemri made it all the more sweet especially because he's been kvetching about how he has never really used HMP and lo and behold he used it twice in one game. Nuffle at work man, Nuffle at work. I may have the biggest bloatiest High Elves but your guys are just plain brain melting and scary and you push the risks in a way that makes me smile. Truly dauntless in your use of Dauntless. And the mass SS Shadowing makes for a lot of sticky predicaments.
And yes, that's the long and short of it. I think Ranked is the perfect place to really get our tents on newer coaches because of the ability to select your experience and unlike the 145 League you don't have to start over with team building once the addiction kicks in and you can put them in tourneys which is a fun aspect of the site. |
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koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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| Posted:
Jul 11, 2018 - 19:28 |
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| mrt1212 wrote: | | Rbthma wrote: | Yeah, despite some other coaches claiming R to be rife with pickers there's certainly a variety of motivations to play in R. I'm assuming the idea with LFG2 would be to somehow mark your team as a mentoring team somehow on the gamefinder - or just identify it as such in the chat?
Either way it would help a lot and a good initiative! |
https://fumbbl.com/p/lfg2 This is the mockup of LFG2 Christer has designed. My SOP with using this would be to chat with coaches that green light me and ask what they're looking for in the experience. Or perhaps announce that I'm there looking to help neophytes looking for pointers and whatnot. |
Looks interesting.
How do you mark your teams as LFG?
| mrt1212 wrote: |
And yes, that's the long and short of it. I think Ranked is the perfect place to really get our tents on newer coaches because of the ability to select your experience and unlike the 145 League you don't have to start over with team building once the addiction kicks in and you can put them in tourneys which is a fun aspect of the site. |
Though if we could play across leagues or move teams between leagues, [L]eague teams wouldn't be so stranded once their first league ended. |
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O[L]C 2016 Swiss! - April ---- All Star Bowl - Teams of Stars - 2 more teams needed |
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mrt1212
Joined: Feb 26, 2013
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| Posted:
Jul 11, 2018 - 20:05 |
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| koadah wrote: | | mrt1212 wrote: | | Rbthma wrote: | Yeah, despite some other coaches claiming R to be rife with pickers there's certainly a variety of motivations to play in R. I'm assuming the idea with LFG2 would be to somehow mark your team as a mentoring team somehow on the gamefinder - or just identify it as such in the chat?
Either way it would help a lot and a good initiative! |
https://fumbbl.com/p/lfg2 This is the mockup of LFG2 Christer has designed. My SOP with using this would be to chat with coaches that green light me and ask what they're looking for in the experience. Or perhaps announce that I'm there looking to help neophytes looking for pointers and whatnot. |
Looks interesting.
How do you mark your teams as LFG?
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Right now, the test bed draws on teams you've already marked in the current LFG as being available. In the test bed, you merely need to click on the team itself and then the opposing team you'd like to play to bring up a 'Send Offer' dialogue. Thats as far as the test bed goes.
| Quote: |
| mrt1212 wrote: |
And yes, that's the long and short of it. I think Ranked is the perfect place to really get our tents on newer coaches because of the ability to select your experience and unlike the 145 League you don't have to start over with team building once the addiction kicks in and you can put them in tourneys which is a fun aspect of the site. |
Though if we could play across leagues or move teams between leagues, [L]eague teams wouldn't be so stranded once their first league ended. |
Again with this song and dance?  |
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koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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| Posted:
Jul 11, 2018 - 21:27 |
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| mrt1212 wrote: |
Right now, the test bed draws on teams you've already marked in the current LFG as being available. In the test bed, you merely need to click on the team itself and then the opposing team you'd like to play to bring up a 'Send Offer' dialogue. Thats as far as the test bed goes.
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I haven't marked any teams. It would be good to not have to leave that page to mark teams.
| mrt1212 wrote: |
Again with this song and dance? |
Indeed. 
[L]eague should be the place to give people training games.
145 Club has great community. (I am biased )
It also has follow-on leagues and tournaments. |
_________________
O[L]C 2016 Swiss! - April ---- All Star Bowl - Teams of Stars - 2 more teams needed |
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mrt1212
Joined: Feb 26, 2013
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| Posted:
Jul 11, 2018 - 22:25 |
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I wish we could see conversion rates from 145 to Box and Ranked. Not everyone wants to start off on a tricycle and not everyone stops riding a tricycle. |
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mrt1212
Joined: Feb 26, 2013
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| Posted:
Jul 11, 2018 - 22:41 |
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| koadah wrote: | | mrt1212 wrote: |
Right now, the test bed draws on teams you've already marked in the current LFG as being available. In the test bed, you merely need to click on the team itself and then the opposing team you'd like to play to bring up a 'Send Offer' dialogue. Thats as far as the test bed goes.
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I haven't marked any teams. It would be good to not have to leave that page to mark teams.
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It's a mock up, not a final product. |
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