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Poll
Best 1980s cult film?
Goonies
27%
 27%  [ 15 ]
Big Trouble in Little China
30%
 30%  [ 17 ]
The Burbs
5%
 5%  [ 3 ]
Videodrome
1%
 1%  [ 1 ]
An American Werewolf in London
9%
 9%  [ 5 ]
They Live
5%
 5%  [ 3 ]
Escape from New York
20%
 20%  [ 11 ]
Total Votes : 55


Tricktickler



Joined: Jul 10, 2004

Post   Posted: Jul 28, 2018 - 21:30 Reply with quote Back to top

Anyway, another way attrition can be increased is to simply edit the casualty table and increase the chance of perms and deaths and decrease the chance of BH. This way you get more attrition without increasing the amount of cas and KOs on the pitch.
ph0enyx13



Joined: Nov 14, 2015

Post   Posted: Jul 29, 2018 - 00:37 Reply with quote Back to top

Tricktickler wrote:
Garion wrote:
Similarly changing crowd surf rules so that no apothecary can be used when the crowd cause a casualty to one of your players would help increase attrition a small amount, in a way that increases tactical/positioning awareness and cause a more damage at the same time. without increasing luck. Because either way the player's out for this drive anyway.

Disallowing apos on crowdpushes could cause people to be so afraid of being crowdpushed that they sacrifice defense just to avoid being crowdpushed. Not sure I like that. In general I prefer when you have to make as few choices as possible between: "Should I focus on winning or saving my team?"



I very much like making coaches have to chose between protecting their mans and winning
ph0enyx13



Joined: Nov 14, 2015

Post   Posted: Jul 29, 2018 - 01:08 Reply with quote Back to top

If you were to do 40 game seasons that would be 1000k to start + 10k per game so 1400k + 5K per touch down and 5k per cas so say you average a TD OR CAS per game that is 1600k + 100k in your treasury means you are starting next season with 1700k. You could easily keep your team in the 2000k range plus you keep your fan factor for free so more gold when the season starts.
Garion



Joined: Aug 19, 2009

Post   Posted: Jul 29, 2018 - 08:52 Reply with quote Back to top

I think the other thing not mentioned here is although there are clearly some pixel huggers about, there are equally people that enjoy killing players. That causing casualties is where they get a lot of enjoyment from.

Although ageing can be functional and I don't really mind it (didn't even mind it in lrb4) I can't see why anyone would rather sell their best player after a match rather than see them killed or retired because of serious injuries.


The problem koadah keeps alluding to is rebuild of heavily damaged teams being hard because of SE. If there is a rebuild squad button. Or something like that which a coach can press when they want to take them to the seasons/redraft phase, it could work. That way destroyed teams could get refinanced when they need to and rebuilt but would have a chance their players would leave. Though this only helps at the bottom end of the issue and still does address huge tv teams ( of they are a problem)

FF adding to your tv is still a pain in the backside for re build now. Why this relic of old editions still exists I don't know. If after a season you have a rookie team again yet you add 120 tv for FF you will just retire and start again. It should have been dropped from the game by now. It serves no real purpose any more.

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koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: Jul 29, 2018 - 09:14 Reply with quote Back to top

Pixel huggers? Twisted Evil

The number of games played isn't increasing. If there is a problem with teams reaching 3000K I don't think that introducing measures that hit small teams, as well as big ones, will help.

I would have thought that most of the ultra killers would have already quit for Cyanide. Wink

I have no problem with FF counting for TV. Except on those old LRB4 teams. Wink

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O[L]C 2016 Swiss! - April ---- All Stars - Anniversary Bowl - Teams of Stars - 13th March
Garion



Joined: Aug 19, 2009

Post   Posted: Jul 29, 2018 - 09:53 Reply with quote Back to top

In that last post What I proposed was self selecting seasons end at an individual team level, so totally optional. Which would only benefit small beat up teams in need of rebuilding. But it would do nothing at the top end. So if 3000 tv teams are a problem how within the rules can this be dealt with.

And FF adding 120k to a rookie team is a problem. Any rule that serves no function really yet promotes deleting a team and starting from scratch has no place in the game, it's just bad design.

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mattwakeman



Joined: Feb 15, 2005

Post   Posted: Jul 29, 2018 - 11:42 Reply with quote Back to top

I'm sure this has been mentioned somewhere (if not there then somewhere else on this forum) but I always liked these ageing rules:

- Every player has an EXP stat, which starts at 0.
- After each game, every player eligible to play that game makes an Experience roll (D6). If the roll is higher than pre-game EXP, player gains +1 EXP. A 6 always succeeds, and a 1 always fails.
- EXP points are worth 1 SPP each.
- Once the player has EXP of 6 or higher, an Experience roll of 1 forces the player to roll on the Ageing Table.

Ageing Table:

2 ST -1 and Miss Next Game
3 AG -1 and Miss Next Game
4 MA -1 and Miss Next Game
5 AV -1 and Miss Next Game
6 Niggle and Miss Next Game
7 Niggle and Miss Next Game
8-12 No Effect

This replaces MVPs totally but always seemed very elegant to me. Players gain exps quicker when they are inexperienced but high AV players get hit 'hardest' because they stay around the longest.

I don't imagine that it would ever become mainstream but it seems to tick most of the boxes that people are looking for. It trims teams but organically (I would personally take out the MNGs) and gives for a slow degrade of players who can still turn out on a pitch but at a reduced level.
koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: Jul 29, 2018 - 13:35 Reply with quote Back to top

Garion wrote:
In that last post What I proposed was self selecting seasons end at an individual team level, so totally optional. Which would only benefit small beat up teams in need of rebuilding. But it would do nothing at the top end. So if 3000 tv teams are a problem how within the rules can this be dealt with.

And FF adding 120k to a rookie team is a problem. Any rule that serves no function really yet promotes deleting a team and starting from scratch has no place in the game, it's just bad design.


Why would a rookie team have 12 FF?

FF is clearly a mild handicapping mechanism. If commishes doesn't like it they can leave it out. I don't see how you can call it "bad design". By that measure, the whole game is bad design.

Which is why the commish's word is law. My view is to take the whole rulebook well salted.

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O[L]C 2016 Swiss! - April ---- All Stars - Anniversary Bowl - Teams of Stars - 13th March
Garion



Joined: Aug 19, 2009

Post   Posted: Jul 29, 2018 - 18:24 Reply with quote Back to top

You missunderstand. I was saying if a team is beat up badly and is basically the same as a rookie team, maybe a bunch of journey men, maybe 1 skill or 2, but basically similar to a starting roster for that race yet they are lumbered with a fan factor of 12. This gives them a very big disadvantage as they have 120 extra tv but nothing to show for it. which essentially means you have no choice but to retire. Which is stupid.

While you are happy to ignore chunks of the rules and house rule stuff (which I'm not criticising you for) we both know the main divisions here stick as close to the rules as possible. So working within those parameters what can be done is the question. If huge tv teams is even a problem?

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Last edited by Garion on Jul 29, 2018 - 18:33; edited 1 time in total
Garion



Joined: Aug 19, 2009

Post   Posted: Jul 29, 2018 - 18:32 Reply with quote Back to top

mattwakeman wrote:
ageing table from the lrb5 vault process

Yeah I've used it before. It worked ok. But upkeep was too much work for table top. It would of course be more straight forward online though as it would be automated. Ultimately though I'd rather players weren't retired anywhere other than by dead or injury from cas on the pitch.

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fidius



Joined: Jun 17, 2011

Post   Posted: Jul 30, 2018 - 01:42 Reply with quote Back to top

I think a hybrid approach of what has been discussed would be pretty slick, at least for the online perpetual format. ie: do a post-match d6 EXP roll per player, and if a player accumulates enough EXP they are more susceptible to injuries. So for example every EXP gives you a higher chance of acquiring MNG and/or Niggling Injury between games. Each Niggling Injury adds +1 to the d6 portion of the d6d8 Casualty Roll, to a maximum of 5 (6=death must be natural).

EXP would be worth 1 SPP each. They could also be used to prematurely "top out" skill progression, since you can't teach an old dog new tricks. You could buy potions with inducements that give you a 1/6 chance of lowering EXP by 1. Acquire 1 EXP per injury sustained. etc.

Lots you can do with that concept. But simpler it is not.
Garion



Joined: Aug 19, 2009

Post   Posted: Jul 30, 2018 - 08:43 Reply with quote Back to top

Yup ageing that stops players gaining new skills seemed a better way to go about things. So even after 3 skills for example the player would reach their full potential if they fail their ageing roll. Then when they get to their next level in spp they wouldn't get any new skills but would start picking up niggles if they fail their ageing roll again. A good way to prevent silly high tv, and it's not immediate auto fire. Plus very fluffy. For online you could create something great with automation.

The one part of the new seasons/redraft rules I actually quite like is healing niggles. Stopping them being auto fire. Quite a nice possibility.

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MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Aug 01, 2018 - 14:18 Reply with quote Back to top

How Expensive Mistakes rule could be changed:

the first step is 150,000 (instead of 100,000), this is the first change;

Treasury modifier
150k-249k: +3 (all the modifiers are decreased by 1 to make up for higher starting step; this is the second change)
250k-349: +2
350k-449k: +1
450-549k: +0
550k or more: -1

EM table
1: lose all but 2d6 x 10,000
2: lose all but 2d6 x 10,000
3: lose all but 2d6 x 10,000
4: Treasury is halved and rounded up to closest 10,000
5: lose 1d6 x 10,000 (1d6 replaces the 1d3 to make up for the higher starting step; this is the third change)
6: lose 1d6 x 10,000
7: no loss
8: no loss
9: no loss
10: no loss
mrt1212



Joined: Feb 26, 2013

Post   Posted: Aug 02, 2018 - 19:09 Reply with quote Back to top

https://fumbbl.com/p/team?team_id=759098

FWIW, nothing lasts forever in BB.

From 3240 to 2000 in 21 games. Teams as large as mine were are great and all but...

The combo of fouls, clawmb, and saws makes it exceedingly difficult to keep them up there. In the last 5 games I had 6 RIPs.

But hey, thats the nature of the game and what happens when you have such a top heavy team - you simply can't replace good players with even a quarter of their equivalency in utility in such a short amount of time. I lost all my tackle and MB about 10 games ago and it just got worse from there.

But the journey continues!

Edit:

I also violated some of the things I did that helped the team grow.

1. I was monoactivating them which means I got some really bad matchups for CAS. Usually I threw either of my dwarf teams in to catch some of the baddies and punish them instead. Fewer games for the Whalelf but more longevity.

2. I actually activated them which was kind of necessary given the holes in the team but in general I only played them in tourneys. In tourneys most folks don't have the zeal to kill nearly as much because of the stakes involved.
uzkulak



Joined: Mar 30, 2004

Post   Posted: Aug 02, 2018 - 21:59 Reply with quote Back to top

Tricktickler wrote:
Anyway, another way attrition can be increased is to simply edit the casualty table and increase the chance of perms and deaths and decrease the chance of BH. This way you get more attrition without increasing the amount of cas and KOs on the pitch.



If it was up to me I would increase the chances of mng and perms rather than deaths, people find it easier to accept the loss when they do the firing themselves. Plus (if kept on) injured players have more character.

Another way might be to introduce a mechanic where players might be mng for d3 games rather than just 1 game - or even to correlate the amount of games missed based on the skill level of the player hurt. Carrying lots of highly skilled players on your team therefore comes at a risk.
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