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Garion



Joined: Aug 19, 2009

Post   Posted: Aug 02, 2018 - 08:36 Reply with quote Back to top

garyt1 wrote:
Oh but will nobody think of the poor Ogres and snots! Sad


Bring back the proper titchy rule!!!

Very Happy

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Last edited by Garion on Aug 02, 2018 - 09:58; edited 1 time in total
ramchop



Joined: Oct 12, 2013

Post   Posted: Aug 02, 2018 - 09:41 Reply with quote Back to top

Ideas to improve goblins and halflings lot in Box pop up now and again.

Here's mine from a while ago.

Since then I've played 10 consecutive sprints in Box with goblins.

I now don't think you need to find ways to make stunties more successful. You merely need to redefine your own definition of success. I'm a long way off it, but there are goblin teams in Box hovering around a 50% win record - to me that's phenomenal.

If you really want to pick your inducements, there is another sandpit to freely play in.
Garion



Joined: Aug 19, 2009

Post   Posted: Aug 02, 2018 - 09:58 Reply with quote Back to top

agreed ramchop. Things are fine. Stunties are meant to suck really. The only change i would recommend for blackbox is - if a teams TV is less than 1,000k then they should count as having a TV or 1,000k for match making purposes. that way if a stunty team is really heavily beat up they will still get matched against rookie(ish) teams and get a chance to induce

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Purplegoo



Joined: Mar 23, 2006

Post   Posted: Aug 02, 2018 - 10:43 Reply with quote Back to top

Garion wrote:
agreed ramchop. Things are fine. Stunties are meant to suck really. The only change i would recommend for blackbox is - if a teams TV is less than 1,000k then they should count as having a TV or 1,000k for match making purposes. that way if a stunty team is really heavily beat up they will still get matched against rookie(ish) teams and get a chance to induce


Is that not just a licence to make Stunty teams for 600 k (or whatever the optimal number is) and then induce a whole bunch of toys on unsuspecting, brand new teams that cop an absolute pounding?

I think this may be an unsolvable ‘problem’ in the Blackbox environment. On the one hand, these rosters were designed to be often playing TV down and benefiting from inducements. On the other, any change you make would seem to make it easier for people to game the system. ‘See Stunties as – x TV than they actually are’ doesn’t work in a TV matchmade system, for my money. I’m not suggesting that you could game it to make Stunties supermen in every case, but I don’t think rookie High Elves really fancy playing against three Trees with no RRs.

As Ramchop suggests, I think the answer is playing R and generating the TV disparity you like. That way, both coaches know on the way in what they’re going to face. Even on slow days, low AV teams get plenty of green lights, so I’m sure you’ll get games. I guess the only barrier might be whatever the maximum TV difference limit is that Christer has currently set for low number of games teams? Perhaps that’s the thing to tweak, if anything.

On TT tournament Stunties – they’re never made so good they’re favourites. It’s common to give them more TV within which to build (and take inducements) or give them freebies (free Chef for ‘Flings, Bribes for Goblins, even an Apo for Ogres is common in some regions). But they never get given so much they aren’t still Stunties. I guess the difference is that the other teams are all getting skills too, so even though Stunties get more, they aren’t pounding on absolute rookies, the opposition can cope and hit back.

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jdmickleburgh



Joined: Nov 30, 2011

Post   Posted: Aug 02, 2018 - 10:45 Reply with quote Back to top

Garion wrote:
The only change i would recommend for blackbox is - if a teams TV is less than 1,000k then they should count as having a TV or 1,000k for match making purposes. that way if a stunty team is really heavily beat up they will still get matched against rookie(ish) teams and get a chance to induce


+1. Nothing worse than sitting through tons of activations with your beat up stuntys. This would also allow new 600k fling teams to enter the box environment too

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ArrestedDevelopment



Joined: Sep 14, 2015

Post   Posted: Aug 02, 2018 - 11:50 Reply with quote Back to top

Right now if you want to do that, you can run them through a rookie rumble and then brawl/smack them, and never, ever have to play a game where you have more than 600-800k TV.

Honestly, I don't see why the scheduler needs rigged to allow for people to start lowbie stuntie teams... you can already do it, just get creative.

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Java



Joined: Jan 27, 2018

Post   Posted: Aug 02, 2018 - 12:29 Reply with quote Back to top

Garion wrote:
We still have loner on goblin trolls....


That has always confused me when compared to the two trees in 'fling teams.
Garion



Joined: Aug 19, 2009

Post   Posted: Aug 02, 2018 - 13:19 Reply with quote Back to top

Purplegoo wrote:
Garion wrote:
agreed ramchop. Things are fine. Stunties are meant to suck really. The only change i would recommend for blackbox is - if a teams TV is less than 1,000k then they should count as having a TV or 1,000k for match making purposes. that way if a stunty team is really heavily beat up they will still get matched against rookie(ish) teams and get a chance to induce


Is that not just a licence to make Stunty teams for 600 k (or whatever the optimal number is) and then induce a whole bunch of toys on unsuspecting, brand new teams that cop an absolute pounding?


I don't see that as a problem tbh. Halflings with 600k have 1 rr, and 1 benched player. sure they can then induce deeproot and a chef (averages 1.5 rrs pinched), but they are still substandard. Their roster was intentionally designed with this in mind. Not being able to use their toys makes them a lot worse than they were intended to be. I'm sure you have played many fling teams using this exact build in tourneys etc.. I've also seen them plenty in rookie rumbles here and they still get a beating most of the time.

Also this change wouldn't just be for flings + gobos, I have also seen humans for example that have been beat up and drop to a TV so low they cant get games, sure its rare, but it just means auto retire.

Thats just my opinion anyway, I doubt anything will change, and its not a big deal really. As you say - just play ranked.

Also worth noting if you play over 10 games with flings then you start getting matched in high TV differences, so get some toys sometimes, and I think after 20 games the tv cap falls off,so you can play whatever in theory.

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Last edited by Garion on Aug 02, 2018 - 18:20; edited 1 time in total
Purplegoo



Joined: Mar 23, 2006

Post   Posted: Aug 02, 2018 - 13:38 Reply with quote Back to top

Sure - it’s certainly up for debate as to whether or not this is a ‘problem’ (hence the inverted commas). I think I’m always mindful of some of the LRB4 Stunty monsters we saw gaming that particular system, but it may well be that time has passed and / or the environment has changed.

Either way - playing R gets around the issue, as noted.

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razmus



Joined: Jun 23, 2017

Post   Posted: Aug 02, 2018 - 15:03 Reply with quote Back to top

Java wrote:
Garion wrote:
We still have loner on goblin trolls....


That has always confused me when compared to the two trees in 'fling teams.


Flings (and snotlings) don't have to wear ipecac shorts as safety equipment either. (Lifetip: If you are worried about the flavour of the clothes you wear, it's time to seriously question your life choices.) It's hard not to treat teammates as outsiders when they might eat ya in any particular game or practice. (Goblins just need a handful of sneaky gits and/or dirty gits like hobgoblins. It always seemed MORE wrong to me that gobbos can only have a dirty player on a double...)
Garion



Joined: Aug 19, 2009

Post   Posted: Aug 02, 2018 - 15:19 Reply with quote Back to top

sneaky git was meant to be the stunty fouling skill, but it's pretty crap and not worth having on a stunty team really.

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Java



Joined: Jan 27, 2018

Post   Posted: Aug 05, 2018 - 01:35 Reply with quote Back to top

razmus wrote:
Java wrote:
Garion wrote:
We still have loner on goblin trolls....


That has always confused me when compared to the two trees in 'fling teams.


Flings (and snotlings) don't have to wear ipecac shorts as safety equipment either. (Lifetip: If you are worried about the flavour of the clothes you wear, it's time to seriously question your life choices.) It's hard not to treat teammates as outsiders when they might eat ya in any particular game or practice. (Goblins just need a handful of sneaky gits and/or dirty gits like hobgoblins. It always seemed MORE wrong to me that gobbos can only have a dirty player on a double...)



That is very true from a fluff point of view, but it does not help an already stunted (heh) team at all!
delusional



Joined: Jan 18, 2013

Post   Posted: Aug 05, 2018 - 13:30 Reply with quote Back to top

Garion wrote:
Wozzaa wrote:
Fluff wise it makes a tonne of sense to have both rostered bribes and a rostered chef. I wonder what GW will give flings when they bring em out.... Hopefully a positional and a rostered chef.


I really really hope to God they don't give them a positional. The team is fine.

However having the chef as coaching staff is a must. But I wouldn't hold your breath.they seem reluctant to make any positive changes like that in this rule set. We still have loner on goblin trolls....


Yes, this is the hatething I have about GW and blood bowl. If your chosen team sucks, it SUCKS. Do they introduce balance, no they make the sucky thing suck more so that you either choose something that does not suck or you quit.

Ofcourse Halflings need positionals. They are short and slow, at least give them a thrower! Would two blockers hurt either? Really?

Goblins should get a stalker or tracker. I.e. a player with Shadowing and tackle or similar.
Garion



Joined: Aug 19, 2009

Post   Posted: Aug 05, 2018 - 14:06 Reply with quote Back to top

The key to playing with fling teams is keeping their tv down and using inducements. I really do not want flings especially to get any positionals. They're my favourite team. By far. They should have master chef on the rostered staff permanently though - for 200k and thier rolls should be 3+ for them, not 4+. This is the only change i'd be happy with for them. This or them left alone.

Goblins need loner removed from the trolls so they have a safe(ish) 1st move. Which they rarely get.

Ogres need a redesign. Or the old titchy rule brought back.

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MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Aug 05, 2018 - 14:29 Reply with quote Back to top

Halflings, as they currently are, lack variety.
They should have the rostered Master Chef and some positionals (either runners or catchers and maybe a thrower, because in every fantasy lore halflings are adept at throwing objects).
Goblins have many positionals, Halflings none at all, that makes no sense, and by the way Trolls should lose Loner and Goblins should have 2 rostered bribes, they are cheaters.
Ogres should have Gnoblars (AV 6 Goblins) instead of Snotlings, either 0-6 Ogres or 0-4 Ogres and 0-2 Maneaters with G access. RR price should be decreased to 60k.
Sure Hands should be allowed as A skill to Stunty players, and they should have a TV 10 discount for skills/stats earned.
These changes would make more playable the stunty teams without making them overpowered.

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