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garyt1



Joined: Mar 12, 2011

Post   Posted: Aug 06, 2018 - 19:05 Reply with quote Back to top

Koadah May have a screenshot or something useful, but there were a few types of sprint we could choose to display. Such as with a different tv range. They were in 2 month periods and ranked the best 16 results of every box team in the tv range (say low and high). Ranking based on points for wins draws and losses. Then on to difference and then in cas difference etc.
As I recall there were columns for team name, coach name, games played, won, drawn, loss, td for and against, cas for and against, average tv (in sprint), points.
If you clicked on a team in the table it showed their current sprint match results. Click on the team in the results and it showed the roster on fumbll.

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garyt1



Joined: Mar 12, 2011

Post   Posted: Aug 06, 2018 - 19:06 Reply with quote Back to top

Oh and race. And you could also filter the table on race.

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happygrue



Joined: Oct 15, 2010

Post   Posted: Aug 06, 2018 - 19:13 Reply with quote Back to top

I can write up more later, but for a rough idea here is a spreadsheet of past sprint data for ARR badge winners ( seasons as tabs). It's basically points for wins/ties/losses, and some data on casualties, average TV and such.

In a perfect world, more granularity and flexibility would be awesome, as there are many things that could be _wished_ for that were not tracked (people love data on fouls, to pick one example). I'll write up some things at a later date. koadah can speak more to what he was doing to set it all up, but basically a "sprint" is a team's best 16 consecutive games over a 2 month period. So playing more means you could improve your results if you managed to play a better 16 consecutive games than what was previously recorded.

The details of a new implementation might be the subject of some debate, but that's what it has been. I'll pitch my wishlist later.

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koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: Aug 06, 2018 - 22:05 Reply with quote Back to top

I have put the pages back for now.

As the guys said...


Old style Sprints.

A Sprint is played over a given time period. Usually 2 months.
Scoring is by team. A team's best n consecutive games count. n is usually 16.
A team may play as many games as they like. All Box teams can be considered.
Teams get points per game. e.g. w/d/l 4/2/1 or 3/1/0 or 2/1/0.
Tie break is TV average or TV difference could be used.

A Sprint may be restricted to only games where at least one team is over a certain TV. e.g. 1600. Or both teams are below a certain TV.

A Sprint may be restricted to a certain race (e.g. Human League Premiership) or races (e.g. ARR - Goblins, Halflngs, Ogre, Vampire, Elf, High Elf, Slann, Underworld).

Results can be broken down by race

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ramchop



Joined: Oct 12, 2013

Post   Posted: Aug 07, 2018 - 12:41
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Thanks Koadah for putting it back up.

I really like the Box sprints. 16 games in 2 months for a team is very doable.

The Box Trophy is more a marathon than a sprint (200 games in 12 months).

Both systems are really good for raising interest in Box and I hope they both continue.
Christer



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Aug 07, 2018 - 12:54
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All this "usually" stuff is vague and a bit tricky to deal with. Is there a method to the variation? The same goes for the TV limits (over/under X TV)

Implementing a core bi-monthly thing with the best consecutive 16 matches count should be relatively easy. If there's no seriously compelling reason to have differing scoring systems, I might unify them to 4/2/1 which seems to be the most used one.

What happens to series of games where the TVs move outside of the allowed range? Are they just ignored as if they weren't there or does the streak of games get cut and you begin counting from 0 again?

I'm also likely to fix the number of games per sprint to a single number (16), unless (again) there's a compelling reason to allow that to vary.

The core reason for the limitations is to reduce the amount of data needed to be stored and processed.
ramchop



Joined: Oct 12, 2013

Post   Posted: Aug 07, 2018 - 13:21
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Christer wrote:
What happens to series of games where the TVs move outside of the allowed range? Are they just ignored as if they weren't there or does the streak of games get cut and you begin counting from 0 again?


They are just ignored as if they weren't there.
koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: Aug 07, 2018 - 14:41 Reply with quote Back to top

Christer wrote:
All this "usually" stuff is vague and a bit tricky to deal with. Is there a method to the variation? The same goes for the TV limits (over/under X TV)

Implementing a core bi-monthly thing with the best consecutive 16 matches count should be relatively easy. If there's no seriously compelling reason to have differing scoring systems, I might unify them to 4/2/1 which seems to be the most used one.

What happens to series of games where the TVs move outside of the allowed range? Are they just ignored as if they weren't there or does the streak of games get cut and you begin counting from 0 again?

I'm also likely to fix the number of games per sprint to a single number (16), unless (again) there's a compelling reason to allow that to vary.

The core reason for the limitations is to reduce the amount of data needed to be stored and processed.


Standardising makes sense. 2 months//16 games was chosen because it suits "guys like me". Smile

In the league division, I tend to use 10 or 12 games because it is harder to get games. But also things like 1 month/8 games for a quicker turnaround.

You may want to review what the TV limits should be or even whether they are still needed.
Is HLP still even needed? Is it my imagination or did interest fall off a cliff after going to BB2016? Wink

If you are doing ARR, is it worth doing an elf version?

Ramchop is right. Games outside the TV ranges are ignored.
The idea behind TV min/max was to make some Sprints a bit more hardcore by pushing people to keep their TVs up. Twisted Evil

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koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: Aug 07, 2018 - 14:48 Reply with quote Back to top

It seems to be ARR that are making the most noise. Wink
But they are only using Sprints because Sprints were already there. If you starting from scratch should it be a little different?

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MattDakka



Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Post   Posted: Aug 07, 2018 - 14:56 Reply with quote Back to top

Feature request related to sprints: please, is it possible to have the Black Box Racial sprints (i.e. the best series of 16 games for every race in a 2 months-period?) officially implemented?
Ideally the coaches' names should be displayed on the main FUMBBL page (or at least rotating in the "Did you know?" entry).

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Christer



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Aug 07, 2018 - 15:25
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The various racial subsets (humans, arr, whatever) do not require much more than a UI to allow filtering of the total list (assuming the same scoring system etc), so I'm not too worried about that.

Am I correct in the assumption that you were only persisting the top 250 in each category? It'd be slightly storage intensive to maintain scores for *all* teams on the site for each sprint.
koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: Aug 07, 2018 - 15:40 Reply with quote Back to top

Christer wrote:
The various racial subsets (humans, arr, whatever) do not require much more than a UI to allow filtering of the total list (assuming the same scoring system etc), so I'm not too worried about that.

Am I correct in the assumption that you were only persisting the top 250 in each category? It'd be slightly storage intensive to maintain scores for *all* teams on the site for each sprint.


I actually persist them all though never got around to viewing past 250. I'm not paying for the server. Wink
Offloading all this to you before I lose the server works out nicely. Wink

If you do ARR properly rather than the quick hack I put in, you won't need more than 250.

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happygrue



Joined: Oct 15, 2010

Post   Posted: Aug 07, 2018 - 17:35 Reply with quote Back to top

Christer wrote:

Implementing a core bi-monthly thing with the best consecutive 16 matches count should be relatively easy. If there's no seriously compelling reason to have differing scoring systems, I might unify them to 4/2/1 which seems to be the most used one.

...

I'm also likely to fix the number of games per sprint to a single number (16), unless (again) there's a compelling reason to allow that to vary.


I think that standardizing scores to 4/2/1 and 16 games per bi-monthly period would work well.

Storing only the top 250 placing scores per race would more than cover what ARR uses. I think that's probably a useful starting place, because if new metagroups arise that play around with more popular races than ARR that should still cover their needs too.

Moving on to wishlist stuff:

One thing it would be worth considering would be adding the granularity of the normal match report data (such as interceptions, passing yards, fouls and so on). If this is easy to do and sustain I imagine a lot of enjoyment from people diving into those numbers. But it's probably not worth a huge amount of effort if there are technical reasons to skimp on that. Currently, ARR gives out bonus prizes for things like inflicting or taking the most casualties in a season, among several others (listed in the loot section of our group page). With more granular data we can provide more bonus prizes. Being able to sort the display UI by such tracked stats (e.g. most fouls, fewest TD) for completed sprints (only) would also be delightful.

The pie-in-the-sky dream would be to display badges earned next to the earning teams so that old seasons could be browsed and compared. This has always been a manual process, which is why I had a spreadsheet of badge winners in addition to the sprint data. But automating the scoring of bonus content like that strikes me as a separate project with different challenges.

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ramchop



Joined: Oct 12, 2013

Post   Posted: Oct 06, 2018 - 05:24
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another sprint has finished. I've posted an ARR update and a Blackbox Sprint update.

So a wee bump now that a new sprint is to be started: Christer, is it still on the potential to do list to roll sprints into the main site?

Here is the page for the Aug/Sep'18 sprint data.

Table column headers:
Team Coach Race Played Win Draw Loss TDF TDA CasF CasA Points TVAvg
TVAvg is the average TV of the opposition teams for the sprint
Points is 4win, 2draw, 1loss

Filters for Season, Race (the 24 singles, and ARR) and TV (All & >1400) would be enough to cover two of the current Sprint categories which have a big history.

And in the meantime, Koadah can we please have Oct/Nov18 set up on your site?
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