amazingprizzini
Joined: Dec 08, 2009
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 Posted:
Dec 21, 2018 - 20:09 |
 
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I think Antithesisoftime is right there on the classification of them. |
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Khaltan
Joined: Jun 22, 2011
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| Posted:
Dec 21, 2018 - 21:27 |
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Dwarf Linemen is properbly correct. It would be more correct at 0 skills and there will be many situations where and elf lineman with block or wrestle or an amazon with blodge can get to where you need to go (to blitz the enemy ballcarier or pick up the ball) while the dwarf is yelling threateningly a few aquares from the target.
Still those things are primarily the job of positionals, while linemen have to stand on the LoS and beat up or get beaten up and dwarwen linemen are fantastic at both those things. On balance I'd value the dwarven excelence at the bread and butter job of killing and not dying over the elven ability to impersonate a positional if needed. |
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ClayInfinity
Joined: Aug 15, 2003
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| Posted:
Dec 21, 2018 - 21:28 |
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| Antithesisoftime wrote: | | MattDakka wrote: | | Kondor wrote: | | Long Beards are easily the best linemen in the game. It does not matter how many skills you give them. Rookies come with block/tackle/thick skull. The first three skills are Guard/Stand Firm/Mighty Blow. No doubles needed to create a monster. No matter the level, the dwarf will always be more skilled than linemen from other teams. |
Chaos Dwarfs have more potential, same regular skill access as Long Beards but M access with double.
That makes a huge difference in the long run. |
I'd argue that Chaos Dwarf blockers are a positional and not a lineman. Chaos Dwarves use Hobgoblins as linemen, which renders your argument moot. |
Agree... we're talking the 0-16 roster slots here |
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PurpleChest
Joined: Oct 25, 2003
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for no skills the Dwarf lineman wins 100% for sure. The only team where i drop positionals to fit more linemen into the starting team.
At one skill the DP Zombie, Blodge Linezon and the (new to me as idea) leader Pact marauder have merits, but I still think the Guard Beard is really hard to beat for value. |
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Barbarus hic ego sum, quia non intelligor illis -Ovid
I am a barbarian here because i am not understood by anyone |
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fidius
Joined: Jun 17, 2011
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| Posted:
Dec 22, 2018 - 00:46 |
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There is no such thing as a Dwarf Lineman, they have 0-16 Blocker positionals. This is pretty much the whole reason we hates them. |
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Wuhan
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Dec 22, 2018 - 01:56 |
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Arktoris
Joined: Feb 16, 2004
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| Posted:
Dec 22, 2018 - 06:45 |
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| fidius wrote: | | There is no such thing as a Dwarf Lineman, they have 0-16 Blocker positionals. This is pretty much the whole reason we hates them. |
their very low movement and agility balances out the skills. They're linemen. |
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Hail to Manowar! The latest charioteer to DIE for bloodbowl! - Slain, by Ghor Oggaz |
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fidius
Joined: Jun 17, 2011
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| Posted:
Dec 22, 2018 - 07:50 |
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| Arktoris wrote: | | fidius wrote: | | There is no such thing as a Dwarf Lineman, they have 0-16 Blocker positionals. This is pretty much the whole reason we hates them. |
their very low movement and agility balances out the skills. They're linemen. |
Alright smarty-pants -- what's Underworld's Skaven Lineman, then, huh? A positional you say? |
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Khaltan
Joined: Jun 22, 2011
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| Posted:
Dec 22, 2018 - 08:10 |
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| Arktoris wrote: | | fidius wrote: | | There is no such thing as a Dwarf Lineman, they have 0-16 Blocker positionals. This is pretty much the whole reason we hates them. |
their very low movement and agility balances out the skills. They're linemen. |
Honestly Dwarwen linemen are good enough that they could be positionals. There are many teams who could be improved by replacing some of their positionals with dwarven linemen, and this isn't just bad positionals, but also rather good ones. I might be willing to exchange two Dark Elf blitzers with Dwarven linemen and concider it a boon. Then again. Elven linemen couold also be used as positionals for many teams.
On the topic at large it's very difficult, and in a sense meaningless to determine how good a player is absent of context. For example I'd take a team with elven positionals and dwarwen linemen over a teams with dwarven positionals and elven linemen. If on the other hand we were comparing a team made only of linemen (with one skill). I'd take Dark/high Elves over Dwarves. It's all about context. |
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fidius
Joined: Jun 17, 2011
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| Posted:
Dec 22, 2018 - 08:57 |
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| Arktoris wrote: | | their very low movement and agility balances out the skills. They're linemen. |
I don't think "they are Linemen because they suck as much as Linemen on other teams" will win many arguments. Compared to Dwarf Blitzers, Blockers trade 1 MV and 1 AG for Tackle and 10k -- pretty close to a positional in my book. Compared to Zombies (certainly in Top-5 Linemen by value) they trade Regen and 30k for Block, Tackle, 1 AV, Strength access, and Thick Skull. I mean come ON. Or take the "other white meat" for min/maxers (after Zons), the Norse Lineman (an actual Lineman): Dwarf Blockers trade 2 MV, 1 AG, and 20k for Tackle, Thick Skull, 2 AV, and Strength access. OK, close. Norse Linemen are great. Now add 2 levels: your Norse Lineman has, what, Tackle and Fend, while your Blocker has Guard and Mighty Blow? Or Mighty Blow and [snort] Piling On? Pack it in, show's over.
Not a Lineman.
And they're not even called Linemen. They're named after a defined player position! With capital letter and everything! |
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Khaltan
Joined: Jun 22, 2011
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| Posted:
Dec 22, 2018 - 09:42 |
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| fidius wrote: | | Arktoris wrote: | | their very low movement and agility balances out the skills. They're linemen. |
I don't think "they are Linemen because they suck as much as Linemen on other teams" will win many arguments. Compared to Dwarf Blitzers, Blockers trade 1 MV and 1 AG for Tackle and 10k -- pretty close to a positional in my book. Compared to Zombies (certainly in Top-5 Linemen by value) they trade Regen and 30k for Block, Tackle, 1 AV, Strength access, and Thick Skull. I mean come ON. Or take the "other white meat" for min/maxers (after Zons), the Norse Lineman (an actual Lineman): Dwarf Blockers trade 2 MV, 1 AG, and 20k for Tackle, Thick Skull, 2 AV, and Strength access. OK, close. Norse Linemen are great. Now add 2 levels: your Norse Lineman has, what, Tackle and Fend, while your Blocker has Guard and Mighty Blow? Or Mighty Blow and [snort] Piling On? Pack it in, show's over.
Not a Lineman.
And they're not even called Linemen. They're named after a defined player position! With capital letter and everything! |
Only 10-11 out of 24 teams (depending on whether you count the 0-2 Skaven linerats from Underworld have a position called lineman/linewoman or similar. |
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bghandras
Joined: Feb 06, 2011
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| Posted:
Dec 22, 2018 - 12:06 |
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Norse lino with kick is awesome value, but not when spammed. Dork guard, or amazon wrestler or blocdger are spammable bargains. |
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spinball
Joined: Jul 01, 2004
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| Posted:
Dec 22, 2018 - 13:02 |
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I agree with many of the previous, just going to add some that I think are still valuable.
Wood Elf with dodge
Beastman with two heads (4 ag dodge, 4 str blitz)
Norse Lineman with tackle, fend or strip ball
Skink with sidestep or diving tackle |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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| Posted:
Dec 22, 2018 - 14:27 |
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| Antithesisoftime wrote: | | I'd argue that Chaos Dwarf blockers are a positional and not a lineman. Chaos Dwarves use Hobgoblins as linemen, which renders your argument moot. |
If you consider Linemen players with 0-16 or 0-12 roster cap then you are right.
If you consider the roster name both Dwarfs Blockers and Chaos Dwarfs Blockers are positionals and Hobgoblins are Runners. |
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Arktoris
Joined: Feb 16, 2004
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| Posted:
Dec 22, 2018 - 14:58 |
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the lineman of the chaos dwarf team is the hobgoblin. |
_________________
Hail to Manowar! The latest charioteer to DIE for bloodbowl! - Slain, by Ghor Oggaz |
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