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bancobat



Joined: Aug 25, 2013

Post   Posted: Jan 08, 2019 - 19:13 Reply with quote Back to top

I think there are 2 types of newcomers :
- people who play BB but not on FUMBBL (TT or other digital solution)
- newcomers in BB

For the first, although most of them seem to know Fumbbl, it would be good to maybe improve the visibility of the site in TT event and league, T-shirt, Facebook group as someone said, rookie team tournament like the NAF ones are good for this

For newcomers, most of the time they need someone to bring them on fumbbl, already member, maybe there is some tools to improve/implement to help this, like the member will be the « coach » of the newcomers : teams ready to play, possibility to easily go in a 1 vs 1 (like the test mode which is really great but hard to find) will be like a « demo mode », pre set up game human vs ork etc
The_Murker



Joined: Jan 30, 2011

Post   Posted: Jan 08, 2019 - 21:39 Reply with quote Back to top

My suggestion, for which I submit there be a GoFundMe page created for, would be a complete set of YouTube videos that take a noob though becoming a FUMBBL player, in the logical order. Preferably with screen action and live commentary. Vidoe series would include everything, including but not limited to:

A)Installing java (perhaps 3rd)
B) Navigating to and signing up for FUMBBL in Firefox, Explorer, and/or Safari
Creating a team in League, and joining the 145 club.
C) Playing a game, including pre and post game considerations (Concession policy, 90 min requirement, disconnect actions)
D) Creating a team for Black Box, and playing a game, brief overview of paring algorithm/Box matching/new team protection.
E) Creating a team for Ranked, navigating Gamefinder, and playing a game. (brief overview of pairing requirements sub 30 games)
F) Advanced features, such as logo creation and usage (image policy) Joining a league, navigating the forum, and anything else.
G) Connecting to Discord, confirmeng FUMBBL nickname, etc.
H) Advanced tutorial on how the feck to actually use the bloody search feature in the forum to actually find the answer to questions that have been asked and answered 100 times. (perhaps last.. but a deffo a must watch for me)

I have $100 to donate to such a GoFund me, but zero time to set it up, sorry. Any good video producers out there?

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Seventyone



Joined: Dec 02, 2010

Post   Posted: Jan 08, 2019 - 22:37 Reply with quote Back to top

Didn't quite a few of the videos mentioned by the murker get made already?

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Throweck



Joined: Feb 23, 2013

Post   Posted: Jan 08, 2019 - 22:43
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Yep

www.youtube.com/throweck

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bghandras



Joined: Feb 06, 2011

Post   Posted: Jan 08, 2019 - 23:03 Reply with quote Back to top

i think a lot of material was done, but the information is scattered.

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JellyBelly



Joined: Jul 08, 2009

Post   Posted: Jan 08, 2019 - 23:17 Reply with quote Back to top

thoralf wrote:
JellyBelly wrote:
If Fumbbl wants to grow, then it needs to do a better job of listening to the community and being more receptive to user suggestions and feedback.


That's not the impression I get from the tech giants. Apple became the biggest company in the world because it obdurately did its thing for decades. FB pretends to care about feedback and does nothing. Take a look at the Windows' forums and tell me with a straight face that feedback is considered.

Paraphrasing what the Big C underlines in his recent post, most feedback isn't easily actionable. To suggest a change that is unambiguously good for everyone and that can be implemented without too much effort is the true measure of constructiveness. Good intentions just aren't enough.

So my suggestion would be that we all grow out of our innate clientelism and become an active part of this community. We all have itches. It's all up to us to scratch them.


Well, Fumbbl isn't Apple. The uncomfortable truth is that Fumbbl has been 'doing it's thing' for the past few years, yet the number of games played today is around 1/3 of what it was back in 2007/8. I don't mean any disrespect by saying that, but it's a fact that can be clearly seen in the site stats.

Christer's blog post provides some great insight into his motivations and priorities. I totally understand that he is the only developer, his time/energy is limited and growing the Fumbbl userbase may not be a high priority for him atm. But, it seems to me that if there was (hypothetically) going to be a serious push to boost the userbase, something fairly fundamental would need to change, because it's clear which way the momentum has been going over the past several years.

mrt1212 wrote:
JellyBelly wrote:
If Fumbbl wants to grow, then it needs to do a better job of listening to the community and being more receptive to user suggestions and feedback. I mean, what is actively being done right now to gauge what the userbase wants and where the main pain points are?


Yes and no.

There are qualifiers towards suggestions and feedback.

1. Is this a suggestion that can be implemented at current? Is there a social work around by the community?
2. Is this a suggestion that pertains to a large enough swath of the userbase to warrant developing an implementation?
3. How complicated is a developed implementation? How many man hours will it take?
4. If you open up feedback will it be self defeating by the volume of feedback and the myriad dangling suggestions that will never get done? If you build a feedback forum and everyone uses it and very little of it gets done because of logistics, is the feedback forum worth it at a certain point?

The other aspect here is that feedback and discussion is more of a retention tactic than a grow user base tactic. So I would say that while feedback and discussion is important to the overall health of the site and userbase, it is triage for those that already stepped foot onto Fumbbl and are somewhat familiar with it but desire more. Fumbbl isn't unique in how people who have made their peace with the quirks of something they like tell others to simmer down and appreciate what is and many of us old heads should show more patience.

FWIW, I have opened up discussion on how Brawls work and incorporated it to the 2519 season. Would it be neat to see that for every other tourney? Maybe, maybe not.


I was thinking that a structured 'feedback forum/tracker' might actually help Christer and the admins in the long run. If improvement suggestions were listed and people could up/down-vote them, then the next time someone suggests something that's been suggested two dozen times before, people could point to the list and say "well, that has been suggested before and it's on the list. However, it doesn't seem to be as popular as all these other suggestions that are above it, so the chances of it getting implemented any time soon are fairly low." It would help to show that at least it's being considered and that discussion could be headed off nice and quick, so we can stop going round and round discussing the same things over and over ...

"Yeah, it's there on the list. You like it: vote it up. You don't: vote it down. Then be quiet Wink"

As for your other point, I'd say retention (i.e. 'stopping the rot') should be an important part of growing the user base. It's a simple equation:

[userbase growth] = [new people coming in] - [people leaving]

There are clearly two aspects to it and trying to reduce the number of people leaving should definitely be a factor, imo. It's a battle with two fronts.

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Last edited by JellyBelly on Jan 08, 2019 - 23:29; edited 1 time in total
awambawamb



Joined: Feb 17, 2008

Post   Posted: Jan 08, 2019 - 23:24 Reply with quote Back to top

Burnalot wrote:
4. The need for premade teams.


I think... having the users meddle with the buying/selling players system is going to ease them in the future.

maybe adding a guide in the "buy players" page.... or maybe just in the first 5 the new user will open. there is no pixel shortage on the screens nowadays, and as far as I remember the "buy players" windows has always been the same since...2004?

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thoralf



Joined: Mar 06, 2008

Post   Posted: Jan 08, 2019 - 23:28 Reply with quote Back to top

JellyBelly wrote:
Well, Fumbbl isn't Apple.


No kidding.

Tell me how feedback is working for you right now.

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Seventyone



Joined: Dec 02, 2010

Post   Posted: Jan 09, 2019 - 00:00 Reply with quote Back to top

I think Sann made videos too?

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The_Murker



Joined: Jan 30, 2011

Post   Posted: Jan 09, 2019 - 00:24 Reply with quote Back to top

With respect, I see Throweck's videos in and among his other videos.. as are some of Sann's videos.

My suggestion was more towards a YouTube account (and handle) limited strictly to 10 or fewer videos, clearly numbered in a logical order, so a monkey like me would know easily which vids to follow to learn the basics of FUMBBL.

I draw a comparison of my unwillingness to navigate sites like YouTube to a non-English speaker's inability to navigate YouTube or the FUMBBL help section.

Even I can find the first video on a YouTube channel if there are only 6 to choose from.. any more than that, and I can't be bothered searching. (most search functions just aren't intuitive to me)

Ideally, I'd love to be able to advertise a perfect jump off point, by saying "Want to play 'Goblin Football' Online, for free, against world-class opposition? Start HERE."

The YouTube channel would then automatically roll the videos in order.

This desire could very well be a separate YouTube channel containing just Throweck's and/or Sann's intoduction videos. (with their permission, of course) I'm not sure if they feel that would affect their personal hits, or links, or likes, etc.)

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Christer



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Jan 09, 2019 - 00:55
FUMBBL Staff
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YouTube has a feature called playlists that could be used for doing exactly that without needing another channel.
koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: Jan 09, 2019 - 00:58 Reply with quote Back to top

JellyBelly wrote:

Well, Fumbbl isn't Apple. The uncomfortable truth is that Fumbbl has been 'doing it's thing' for the past few years, yet the number of games played today is around 1/3 of what it was back in 2007/8. I don't mean any disrespect by saying that, but it's a fact that can be clearly seen in the site stats.


Most of that drop is directly down to Cyanide. It shouldn't be surprising if new coaches try Cyanide first.

I would expect the Fumbbl population to continue to fall until Cyanide shuts off it's server.

JellyBelly wrote:

Christer's blog post provides some great insight into his motivations and priorities. I totally understand that he is the only developer, his time/energy is limited and growing the Fumbbl userbase may not be a high priority for him atm. But, it seems to me that if there was (hypothetically) going to be a serious push to boost the userbase, something fairly fundamental would need to change, because it's clear which way the momentum has been going over the past several years.


Christer is working on the new client and has opened it up to other devs.

That addresses the screen size issue. Also being able to play on tablets and getting off of java.

What else are people really calling for other than that?

JellyBelly wrote:

I was thinking that a structured 'feedback forum/tracker' might actually help Christer and the admins in the long run...


There is already a forum for ideas and bug reports. I wouldn't really expect to hear much that Christer hasn't heard before.

It seems to me that a lot of time and effort has gone into doing stuff that Cyanide cannot do (or won't) do.

I think that the population will continue to fall but there will still be people playing BB on Fumbbl until Christer finally switches off the server.

People may just have to be a little less picky about their matches. Wink

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The_Murker



Joined: Jan 30, 2011

Post   Posted: Jan 09, 2019 - 01:36 Reply with quote Back to top

ref "Playlists"

I'm sure YouTube 'does' have a logical way to get to content, my point is more that it isn't simple enough for the simplest, or perhaps those who don't read English well.

When I hit the playlist button earlier today, and sorted T's channel 'By Date', Throweck's first video wasn't a 'Welcome to FUMBBL' video.. it was something else. Fair enough. I'm suggesting a separate channel, with nothing but 'welcome videos', and acknowledging that such videos may already exist.

I'm remembering my own entry story, and how I knew that something 'like' FUMBBL was out there, somewhere, but I didn't have the time or motivation to go and discover where, let alone learn how to use it by myself. I can't remember what exactly motivated me to find FUMBBL and fuddle with java, but whatever it was, it could just as easily have not have happened.

In this day and age, if I want to fix my toilet, or a headlight in my car, I don't take out a book from the library, I go straight to YouTube and watch the first video that has the most appropriate title. I watch for about 10 seconds, and if it isn't perfect I move on to the next.

If I knew how awesome FUMBBL was ahead of time, and someone held my hand, I would have been here ages ago.

And now I imagine if Video #1 had also taken 15 seconds near the end for a personable video host to say, ".. and hey, give it a few weeks before you start making forum suggestions or comment on the RNG. Get a good feel for things first.", perhaps Harvestmouse would hate my guts less.

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reroll_LGC



Joined: Dec 17, 2017

Post   Posted: Jan 09, 2019 - 01:46 Reply with quote Back to top

Seventyone wrote:
I think Sann made videos too?


He did, and I watched them wen getting into FUMBBL - very helpful videos, not too long. I watched all the FUMBBL videos on his channel and that covered everything I needed to know (as far as I remember).

Maybe the podcast could do an Absolute Beginners episode? (Sorry if you already have, but I've listened to them all and don't recall anything much for noobs, good though the podcast is!). I know it would be a bit of a useless episode for most of the listeners, but we'd forgive that to help new guys Smile
A new guy scrolling down through the episode list and seeing one called FOR BEGINERS (or whatever) would be happy to see that I think.
Sorry Throweck & co. for making more work for you if this idea goes anywhere. I'd help if I could but I'm not an expert like all the more experienced guys Smile
Burnalot



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Jan 09, 2019 - 01:52 Reply with quote Back to top

awambawamb wrote:
Burnalot wrote:
4. The need for premade teams.


I think... having the users meddle with the buying/selling players system is going to ease them in the future.

maybe adding a guide in the "buy players" page.... or maybe just in the first 5 the new user will open. there is no pixel shortage on the screens nowadays, and as far as I remember the "buy players" windows has always been the same since...2004?


I agree with you, I just mentioned it because it came up several times in similar discussions.

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