MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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 Posted:
May 08, 2019 - 14:11 |
 
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Are the world connections so bad and slow in 2019 to the point you can't load up a 2d client with minimal players' icons in 10 minutes?
Really? I mean, this client would probably load quickly with 56k modems.
Anyway, if your connection sucks and you are not sure to join a game in 10 minutes then don't activate in the Box, you can play in other divisions.
By the way, maybe it's my impression but as far as I can guess by looking at MenonaLoco's games played in Ranked and in Box, I think that, no matter how the Box draws were handled, he would lean towards Ranked division anyway. So, it's quite fun to see him so upset for a simple suggestion to speed things up in the Box division.
Also, it's incredible some persons around here can't understand that, when you activate for a game in the Box you are under obligation to play it, no matter how much casual you think the game is, the relevant part is the "social contract" you subscribe whenever you activate for a game.
Even if for you the game is just casual messing around with pixels, your opponent has the right to play it.
If you are not committed to the game then don't lock the team of your opponent, who, unlike you, is interested in playing the game and follows the site rules.
It's a matter of principle, hard to understand for some people here.
Heck, 10 minutes to join a game, most online games feature an almost instant-join to games, and 10 minutes create a turmoil. Even 1 hour would be better than having to send PM, bother admins, etc. |
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aerofool
Joined: Jun 11, 2008
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May 08, 2019 - 14:48 |
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Wasn't it stated in this thread that no-shows were not a major issue?
Anyway, the idea here is trying to fix something that can't be fixed without human intervention? There are too many intangibles and situations outside the game that can affect the game. These things just can not be controlled by anything internally within the game. Honestly, there is no way a computer will be able to discern whether a persons reason for a delay, or no show, is legitimate or an outright lie to avoid punishment.
Is the real issue trying to be fixed here making the admins job easier? Unfortunately, Admins doing their job is intended to be part of the fix of this kind of issue. You need to have that human element to make things work and flow. |
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Scott |
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koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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May 08, 2019 - 14:56 |
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Joost
Joined: Mar 17, 2014
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May 08, 2019 - 16:17 |
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Right this moment either jos75 or bancobat would see a team concede. Given they are regular players I would assume RL issues. Conceding after 10 mins would have hurt either of them quite harshly and I think that would have likely been unjust. |
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Lorebass
Joined: Jun 25, 2010
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Is there a reason this thread is still showing at the top of the site? We have a Ticket System
Use it. |
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mrt1212
Joined: Feb 26, 2013
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May 08, 2019 - 16:56 |
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| Rawlf wrote: | | smallman wrote: | | I have a team locked up for 3 months now, due to a quitter making zero effort to finish. I expect admin will prefer to cancel, so best to just wait forever so he not rewarded. |
Literally laughing out loud!! 
The battle of stubborn is ON!! Two guys on a casual fun gaming site lock horns to suck the last drop of fun out of each other.
Please let us know if you ever get around to playing this one out, it will be hilarious! 14 minutes decisions of where to side step, 'brb' avalanches and all the other little tricks. You guys crack me up.  |
One tic of both smallman and mattdakka is how rewards and punishment are binary outcomes with seemingly no neutral outcome possible.
If a man accused of murder was acquitted at trial, couldnt you imagine both insisting he was rewarded for murder? |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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May 08, 2019 - 17:12 |
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| Lorebass wrote: | Is there a reason this thread is still showing at the top of the site? We have a Ticket System
Use it. |
I used it on 25 december 2018, but my opponent was allowed to abandon the game and game got cancelled after 13 days (as per site rules, after 3 days I should have got my win).
Ticket system works, but if admins can't force concessions writing tickets is an exercise of futility. Admins lack an important tool at the moment (not their fault and not blaming admins). |
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mrt1212
Joined: Feb 26, 2013
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May 08, 2019 - 17:14 |
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| MattDakka wrote: | | Lorebass wrote: | Is there a reason this thread is still showing at the top of the site? We have a Ticket System
Use it. |
I used it on 25 december 2018, but my opponent was allowed to abandon the game and game got cancelled after 13 days (as per site rules, after 3 days I should have got my win).
Ticket system works, but if admins can't force concessions writing tickets is an exercise of futility. |
Can you break this down as a percentage of games you've played in the interim? |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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May 08, 2019 - 17:18 |
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| mrt1212 wrote: | | MattDakka wrote: | | Lorebass wrote: | Is there a reason this thread is still showing at the top of the site? We have a Ticket System
Use it. |
I used it on 25 december 2018, but my opponent was allowed to abandon the game and game got cancelled after 13 days (as per site rules, after 3 days I should have got my win).
Ticket system works, but if admins can't force concessions writing tickets is an exercise of futility. |
Can you break this down as a percentage of games you've played in the interim? |
Even a single not awarded win is enough to prove that site rules can't be fully enforced at the moment.
When there is a client bug, even if it occurs in rare situations, the stance is trying to fix it, instead of dismissing it as "well, that bug happens only sometimes, so no need to fix it". |
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mrt1212
Joined: Feb 26, 2013
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May 08, 2019 - 17:25 |
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| MattDakka wrote: | | mrt1212 wrote: | | MattDakka wrote: | | Lorebass wrote: | Is there a reason this thread is still showing at the top of the site? We have a Ticket System
Use it. |
I used it on 25 december 2018, but my opponent was allowed to abandon the game and game got cancelled after 13 days (as per site rules, after 3 days I should have got my win).
Ticket system works, but if admins can't force concessions writing tickets is an exercise of futility. |
Can you break this down as a percentage of games you've played in the interim? |
Even a single not awarded win is enough to prove that site rules can't be fully enforced at the moment. |
And yet you still will play under the status quo knowing full well it isn't likely to change. It doesn't seem like any of the dispossessed in these situations is actually that dispossessed of anything besides attention.
As for client bugs vs. human interaction and action. Ummm, I can spot a difference. Can you? |
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MenonaLoco
Joined: Jan 05, 2016
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May 08, 2019 - 17:32 |
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Please, MattDakka, think, before writing, please.
"Are the world connections so bad and slow in 2019 to the point you can't load up a 2d client with minimal players' icons in 10 minutes?" It's not world connections, it's just different internet providers everywhere, i don't know what your world connection would be. But yes, it can happen and nobody wants to lose a pixel over something like that, just to satisfy your urge of instant-cherry.
"Anyway, if your connection sucks and you are not sure to join a game in 10 minutes then don't activate in the Box, you can play in other divisions." Really? I just pointed you out, that power shortages, earthquakes and the likes happen, yes, even in 2019. And in such a case you just want to auto punish because you assume bad intention and purposeful delay of game. Bravo.
"By the way, maybe it's my impression but as far as I can guess by looking at MenonaLoco's games played in Ranked and in Box, I think that, no matter how the Box draws were handled, he would lean towards Ranked division anyway. So, it's quite fun to see him so upset for a simple suggestion to speed things up in the Box division." It's fun anybody is upset? Well, Mr.Troll, you make me upset with your entitled bitching. Let me clarify: It's none of your bussiness how much i play ranked or box. I have my phases and in some of them i more active in box, in others i am more active in league, ranked or tournaments. If you think my overall sum of games would delegitimize my argument here, you are just childish.
"Also, it's incredible some persons around here can't understand that, when you activate for a game in the Box you are under obligation to play it, no matter how much casual you think the game is, the relevant part is the "social contract" you subscribe whenever you activate for a game." - Who are you talking about? Who is not able to understand that? Strawmanning much? Look, everybody understands that, but nobody wants your "solution". Cry me a river.
And no, there is no social contract. You don't seem to know what a social contract is. What you sign by clicking it, is to play it or the admins may apply a consequence. What you are trying to do, is to automaticly punish everybody the way you seem fit, no matter what reason anybody had for a delay. It's just awful. Why would you even expose this side of you on a site where you can be as anonymous as you wish...
"If you are not committed to the game then don't lock the team of your opponent, who, unlike you, is interested in playing the game and follows the site rules." Again, who are you talking about? You attack me for pointing out the flaws of your "arguments", while i am totally commited, when i click the button and i would only not show up or show up late, if i had a good reason, or by mistake, etc. But you are just assuming bad motives, ill will, you just automaticly assume everybody delays on purpose, because they don't wat to play against you - that's your issue. I am pretty sure, that's a rare case, when it happens - and they are all dealt with by admins - and ALL other cases have very different reasons to not show up immediatly.
Now, you tried to invalidate anything i say by pointing out i don't play most of my games in box, and you laugh at my internet reliability. Look, if you cannot communicate on eye level and showing a bit of will or capacity on your side to understand somebody else's position, i may have to opt for the solution most people go for here: Avoid you. |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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May 08, 2019 - 19:40 |
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| MenonaLoco wrote: | | But yes, it can happen and nobody wants to lose a pixel over something like that, just to satisfy your urge of instant-cherry. |
So, you survive to an earthquake and would cry if you lost a pixel? Funny again, but anyway, if pixelhuggers can't deal with losing players, even a simple game loss and CR loss would be enough to discourage "activation distraction", as I said some posts ago. And, if you survived to an earthquake and still are sad for a lost game/pixel, well... maybe it's not me the guy who is too much obsessed by this game.
| MenonaLoco wrote: | | Really? I just pointed you out, that power shortages, earthquakes and the likes happen, yes, even in 2019. |
If the power outage is short an UPS might prevent the disconnection, I have an UPS, super-advanced technology, huh? About earthquakes, how much often realistically may happen an earthquake? Do you live near a Chaos Dwarf Earthshaker shooting range in Zharr-Naggrund? Anyway, if we start to think of EVERY possible event that can interrupt us, well, then we should never play. After all, we could be hit by a crashing plane, a meteorite, being struck by heartaches, dying, having a PC crash, suffering a power outage, losing our memory, etc. etc.
| MenonaLoco wrote: | | It's none of your bussiness how much i play ranked or box. I have my phases and in some of them i more active in box, in others i am more active in league, ranked or tournaments. If you think my overall sum of games would delegitimize my argument here, you are just childish. |
You are free to play in Ranked to your heart's content, of course, I never said you didn't, and I'm free, on the other hand, to elaborate my own personal opinion on the basis of your match history, your opponents and the TV gaps in your matches.
| MenonaLoco wrote: | | Look, everybody understands that, but nobody wants your "solution". Cry me a river. |
Apparently, at least smallman, if I'm not wrong, seems to endorse my suggestion, so, if even one person agrees with my "solution" using the word "nobody" is not correct.
| MenonaLoco wrote: | | admins may apply a consequence. |
Admins must apply a consequence, otherwise there is chaos and anarchy in the site. Why bothering to write site rules, and reading them, if they are not enforced?
And if asking to enforce them may generate admin's work, why not removing this burden from their shoulders and let the system sort the no-shows/leaves out automatically?
| MenonaLoco wrote: | | What you are trying to do, is to automaticly punish everybody the way you seem fit, no matter what reason anybody had for a delay. |
Not everybody, just the no-show and the leaving coaches. Why the honest coaches must waste their time due to somebody leaving? If it was genuine, amen, one lost game will not destroy your life, I'm not suggesting to kill anybody, just to avoid having teams locked forever (one of my teams got stuck for 13 days due to a leaver).
| MenonaLoco wrote: | | and they are all dealt with by admins - |
Well, if cancelling a game without punishing a leaver is "dealing" well yes, then you are right, but it's not how an abandoned game should be treated, according to site rules.
After 3 days there should be auto-concession.
| MenonaLoco wrote: | | Now, you tried to invalidate anything i say by pointing out i don't play most of my games in box, and you laugh at my internet reliability. Look, if you cannot communicate on eye level and showing a bit of will or capacity on your side to understand somebody else's position, i may have to opt for the solution most people go for here: Avoid you. |
I didn't invalidate what you wrote, I just replied, by the way I spent 2 years with a temperamental crashing PC, sometimes I lost games (not only BB games, mobas and fps games too) due to that, I even played a Cyanide BB1 private league game with stomachache some years ago because I didn't want to delay it to respect my opponent, so I have empathy for issues, yet I think that, since we can't know for sure if a disconnection/no-show is genuine, it's better, for the smooth running of the Box (I keep your beloved Ranked division out of the sentence), to enable an automatic disengage with some kind of repercussion, not necessarily a concession with 51 SPPs rule, but an auto-loss would still be nice.
Better suggestions and ideas are welcome. |
Last edited by MattDakka on %b %08, %2019 - %20:%May; edited 2 times in total |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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| Posted:
May 08, 2019 - 19:50 |
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| mrt1212 wrote: |
And yet you still will play under the status quo knowing full well it isn't likely to change. |
Due to lack of better alternative, not because I think the status quo is fine.
Also, after the 25 december incident, I stopped playing for some days because pissed off by the cancelled game, but in the Box there were not interesting games to watch, so I started playing again. Then, another annoying occurrance (the no-show that got played after 1 day) drove me to start this thread. |
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mrt1212
Joined: Feb 26, 2013
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| Posted:
May 08, 2019 - 20:02 |
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| MattDakka wrote: | | mrt1212 wrote: |
And yet you still will play under the status quo knowing full well it isn't likely to change. |
Due to lack of better alternative, not because I think the status quo is fine.
Also, after the 25 december incident, I stopped playing for some days because pissed off by the cancelled game, but in the Box there were not interesting games to watch, so I started playing again. Then, another annoying occurrance (the no-show that got played after 1 day) drove me to start this thread. |
Can you at least accept that most everyone besides yourself and smallman (two people who seem to have more of these 'issues' than most other coaches combined) see this as a draconian measure mostly for your benefit that simply is too inflexible and too infrequent to be considered seriously, yet again?
If you can't accept that is how you are coming across to most of the audience, what else is there to discuss? |
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Antithesisoftime
Joined: Aug 20, 2014
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| Posted:
May 08, 2019 - 20:03 |
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| MattDakka wrote: | | mrt1212 wrote: |
And yet you still will play under the status quo knowing full well it isn't likely to change. |
Due to lack of better alternative, not because I think the status quo is fine.
Also, after the 25 december incident, I stopped playing for some days because pissed off by the cancelled game, but in the Box there were not interesting games to watch, so I started playing again. Then, another annoying occurrance (the no-show that got played after 1 day) drove me to start this thread. |
Your entire argument boils down to
"People should be forced to play the game my way, and if they can't they need to be punished. I don't care if their internet sucks, or if RL happens, they need to be punished."
There are hundreds of coaches who use Fumbbl daily. Why should Fumbbl cater to you specifically, at the expense of the hundreds of other coaches who use Fumbbl? Fumbbl does not revolve around you. |
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