MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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 Posted:
May 08, 2019 - 20:06 |
 
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Can you understand that this "draconian measure", as you call it, it's the common solution adopted in most online games I played? I mean, are these other online games punishment systems developed by me and smallman? Or maybe there is a reason those other online games adopt the "draconian measure"? |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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| Posted:
May 08, 2019 - 20:12 |
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| Antithesisoftime wrote: |
There are hundreds of coaches who use Fumbbl daily. Why should Fumbbl cater to you specifically, at the expense of the hundreds of other coaches who use Fumbbl? Fumbbl does not revolve around you. |
Wait, there are site rules, not written by me or written to please me.
One of these rules states that, if opponent abandons a game in the Box, after 3 days you get the win.
Currently this rule can't be enforced.
If, after 3 days, the win were awarded, then I would just have to wait in case my opponent didn't show to a scheduled game, but, since this is not currently possible, I suggested an automated alternative to sort out the no-show situations.
Currently I have to hope for the no-show coach to rejoin the game or just ask to cancel it, and this is not good in my opinion, because it relies on no-show coach willingness to play the game, there is no time pressure on him, not even 3 days at the moment (I suggested 10 minutes but I said as well this time period might be different, if too short).
Just one thing: if I wanted to create problems for the sake of it on the forums, I would do it without waiting for incidents to happen to me, I tend to complain about things occurred to me, because before they happened, I didn't even consider them.
This is why I talk about my personal experiences in the Box, and not for the sake of creating flames or abstract academic discussions.
Sorry if I sound/sounded as a troll, I understand this can be detrimental to the sincere spirit of what I'm trying to express.
:/ |
Last edited by MattDakka on %b %08, %2019 - %20:%May; edited 1 time in total |
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MenonaLoco
Joined: Jan 05, 2016
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May 08, 2019 - 20:23 |
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MattDakka, try to be nice, ok? It costs some effort, but i believe in you. 
"So, you survive to an earthquake and would cry if you lost a pixel? Funny again, but anyway, if pixelhuggers can't deal with losing players, even a simple game loss and CR loss would be enough to discourage "activation distraction", as I said some posts ago. And, if you survived to an earthquake and still are sad for a lost game, well... maybe it's not me the guy who is too much obsessed by this game." You didn't understand. It's not about how important a pixel is. This "punishment" is just big enough to keep people like me out of the box. That's it. I wouldn't risk it, there are other ways to play bloodbowl without this dakka-hammer.
"If the power outage is short an UPS might prevent the disconnection, I have an UPS, super-advanced technology, huh? About earthquakes, how much often realistically may happen an earthquake? Do you live near a Chaos Dwarf Earthshaker shooting range in Zharr-Naggrund? Anyway, if we start to think to EVERY possible event that can interrupt us, well, then we should never play. After all, we could be hit by a crashing plane, a meteorite, being struck by heartaches, dying, having a PC crash, suffering a power outage, losing our memory, etc. etc." It happens. Period. How often? sometimes a couple amonth, sometimes we have a quiet year. So, i say no thank you for you awful sarcasm there. The thing is, you just don't know and you don't care. Even if it happened only once, imho this punishment wouldn't be ok. It's a way to make box worse, you found it. Grats!
"You are free to play in Ranked to your heart's content, of course, I never said you didn't, and I'm free, on the other hand, to elaborate my own personal opinion on the basis of your match history, your opponents and the TV gaps in your matches." So, why bring it up? Do i have to play more than 200 box- games in order for you not to bring it up, that i don't play as much as you would see fit for this kind of an argument? What number do you dictate? I thought you would like to see more people in box, and more people actually playing their games. Judging by this dialogue i can imagine why someone doesn't want to be connected with you, not even across an ocean.
"And if asking to enforce them may generate admin's work, why not removing this burden from their shoulders and let the system sort the no-shows/leaves out automatically?" This is repetitive now, isn't it? Again the answer, but this time, please pay attention: Because there are many other reasons for a delay of game. Only your paranoya leads you to think that people are just avoiding you and thus don't play. Maybe being nicer could also help? I for sure don't look forward to any interaction in any shape or form with you now. You just dismiss any concerns, you laugh about problems that might cause somebody not willingly connect immediatly, you just don't seem to care about the dialogue. Why do you even bother pretending to try to convince anybody, if you know that you will get a negative response, based on a) your idea is badly elaborated and b) you attack, instead of discussing.
"Not everybody, just the no-show and the leaving coaches. Why the honest coaches must waste their time due to somebody leaving? If it was genuine, amen, one lost game will not destroy your life, I'm not suggesting to kill anybody, just to avoid having teams locked forever (one of my teams got stuck for 13 days due to a leaver)." Ok, i should count the times i try to get this point across: there are many legitimate reasons for somebody not to be able to connect immediatly, and a few that would prevent somebody of doing so within a longer time periode. If you can't live with that, i would suggest you invest your time getting psycological help and not trying to make people here change the rules so the system caters your needs. It's very cringeworthy. Try to stay focussed here: It's not that 1 lost game or 1 lost pixel would be so bad, the thing is, that less coaches would get into box because of this risk in the first place. Got it this time?
"I didn't invalidate what you wrote" - you braught my box-% up, and now you just go like "oh no, i didnt say that". So, why would you bring that up then? Again, i am a commited coach, i would never delay on purpose, not against you, not against anybody. You pretend to want people like me in the box, yet you can't help yourself and attack instead of trying to understand. You even mock my internet reliability, my living area, the earthquakes that happen in my area, and the power shortages. Does mocking help? Do you feel better now? Good for you.
"yet I think that, since we can't know for sure if a disconnection/no-show is genuine, it's better, for the smooth running of the Box" Why? Why would it be better to just not care about genuine disconnection issues and let the hammer hit them all? Maybe in your head this is the most logical thing, judging by your attack mode in the discussion. But people care about what's right, and not only about what's right for MattDakka, you know? But for once get practical: Most coaches here tell you, that box would be less attractive to them, if it was run like you invision it. Maybe you can see that a solution that damages more than it fixes, wouldn't be a solution?
"(I keep your beloved Ranked division out of the sentence)" you didnt, you just braught it up. Just another cheap shot, something that would asure i would never think: "ah, quite nice to talk to MattDakka, maybe he has a point" - but causes more a "Uggghh, whats wrong with him?"
"to enable an automatic disengage with some kind of repercussion, not necessarily a concession with 51 SPPs rule, but an auto-loss would still be nice." - Bravo, that's the first time during this discussion that you seem to recognize that losing 51spp+ pixels is a problem. You would never tell me "yeah, you got a point there", you would maybe loose something, idk, but hey, there you go. It's of course, as you say, not a big deal, nothing compared to RL-issues, yes, but IT IS BIG ENOUGH TO NOT USE THE BOX ANY MORE. And i thought you were all about that. That's a first step. One that you could have taken on page 1. Now remember a small detail: You started the discussion. It is your idea that didn't get much of applause. Now finally you successfully recognized the main issue and add "to enable an automatic disengage with some kind of repercussion, not necessarily a concession with 51 SPPs rule, but an auto-loss would still be nice."
Ok, here we go, you modified the proposition. Now since the proposition is yours, nobody else is obligated to come up with ideas that satisfy your necesity. I recommend you would come up with a bit more detail yourself:
Do you mean, one should automaticly win the game, with double mvp, and the % for his CR and the fan factor modification? Or just the auto-loss, as you put it? So it would be just the... loss, CR-wise? Would both teams be in post game mode after it or not?
I personally wouldn't have any problem with any of that, but some might. And i don't know how much work this would mean for Christer to get this done. So, in any case, being polite and putting your new plan forward would be a good idea. And remember, if you get some wind against, attacking, and laughing about others connections, places, etc. is not good idea, if your aim is to convince somebody. |
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Throweck
Joined: Feb 23, 2013
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May 08, 2019 - 20:27 |
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I fear all this thread is doing is tempting people to not show if they draw you in box Matt.
Perhaps best not to poke the hornet's nest.
You have brought this up before. I was the admin that got it wrong, this was resolved with an apology months ago. However, it's clearly making you lose sleep at night still.
Please, sincerely, please, put this crusade for change into perspective. It really doesn't matter that much in the grand scheme of things does it? Ok you want a win. Does this help? Matt, you're a winner and Christer can give you a different number to prove that to yourself.
If it's records that are important to you, make a note of it in your coach bio.
It it's because you believe the offending coach should be hanged, drawn and quartered then it's time to get over that. Again, JUST BECAUSE YOU DON'T SEE ANY PUNISHMENT, DOESN'T MEAN IT DIDN'T HAPPEN. I'm tired of people not realising that now.
You are absolutely right to voice your opinion, of course. Go ahead. But please, consider that you WILL be responded to as the majority of others, this really isn't a massive issue. |
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koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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| Posted:
May 08, 2019 - 20:30 |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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| Posted:
May 08, 2019 - 20:37 |
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| MenonaLoco wrote: |
Or just the auto-loss, as you put it? So it would be just the... loss, CR-wise? Would both teams be in post game mode after it or not?
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About modifying my suggestion, if you read carefully page 1, I suggested there this:
| MattDakka wrote: |
Well, if losing pixels might be an issue, even the simple concession (with CR loss and % win rate loss) without losing players would be better than having to rely on no-shower's willingness to be back and finish the game. |
So, I was open to not applying 51 SPPs rule since page 1, to make the rule less dreadful for the pixelhuggers.
About the auto-loss details: I think CR loss, win rate loss, loss displayed on "games played" entry of the no-show team, both teams don't gain any SPP, both teams are in "ready to play" status. |
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Arktoris
Joined: Feb 16, 2004
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May 08, 2019 - 20:47 |
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| Throweck wrote: |
It it's because you believe the offending coach should be hanged, drawn and quartered then it's time to get over that. Again, JUST BECAUSE YOU DON'T SEE ANY PUNISHMENT, DOESN'T MEAN IT DIDN'T HAPPEN. I'm tired of people not realising that now. |
I don't think what's upsetting him is the no-show doesn't seem to experience a consequence.
I think it's he gets no reward out of the situation.
as Kodoah mentions in his response to me "the cherry goes unpicked."
Until he gets a reward, he's not changing his tune. |
_________________
Hail to Manowar! The latest charioteer to DIE for bloodbowl! - Slain, by Ghor Oggaz |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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May 08, 2019 - 20:48 |
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| Throweck wrote: |
You have brought this up before. I was the admin that got it wrong, this was resolved with an apology months ago. However, it's clearly making you lose sleep at night still. |
It will be resolved only when my team will have his concession with CR, win rate, SPPs gain and "Games played" with one more win. I don't lose sleep for it at all, just I will never forget the incident. I brought this up again because related to the discussion.
| Throweck wrote: | | If it's records that are important to you, make a note of it in your coach bio. |
Already did it weeks ago:
https://fumbbl.com/p/team?team_id=676283
| Throweck wrote: | | It it's because you believe the offending coach should be hanged, drawn and quartered then it's time to get over that. Again, JUST BECAUSE YOU DON'T SEE ANY PUNISHMENT, DOESN'T MEAN IT DIDN'T HAPPEN. I'm tired of people not realising that now. |
That's a strawman, I just don't want to have my teams stuck for days waiting for guys unable to schedule a game via server time or simply leaving a game never to rejoin it, the coach who didn't leave the game should not be the penalized guy. I do care about my time and don't like time wasters, that doesn't mean I want them killed, hanged, drawn, quartered etc.
I understand that my thought is not shared by the community, amen, quantity of opinions doesn't necessarily mean quality of opinion. |
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mrt1212
Joined: Feb 26, 2013
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| Posted:
May 08, 2019 - 21:04 |
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| MattDakka wrote: | | Can you understand that this "draconian measure", as you call it, it's the common solution adopted in most online games I played? I mean, are these other online games punishment systems developed by me and smallman? Or maybe there is a reason those other online games adopt the "draconian measure"? |
So you refuse to accept how others see your position and integrate it. Thanks for trying at least.
Perhaps now is a good time to reflect on why you and perilously few other people seem to think this is a hill worth dying on and why you and the few others seem to be stricken by the situation more than anyone else.
Also, can you list 3 ways that Fumbbl is different than for profit gaming iterations and sites? I can but I want to know if you can so you can find a better argument than comparing apples to oranges. |
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mrt1212
Joined: Feb 26, 2013
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May 08, 2019 - 21:15 |
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| Arktoris wrote: | | Throweck wrote: |
It it's because you believe the offending coach should be hanged, drawn and quartered then it's time to get over that. Again, JUST BECAUSE YOU DON'T SEE ANY PUNISHMENT, DOESN'T MEAN IT DIDN'T HAPPEN. I'm tired of people not realising that now. |
I don't think what's upsetting him is the no-show doesn't seem to experience a consequence.
I think it's he gets no reward out of the situation.
as Kodoah mentions in his response to me "the cherry goes unpicked."
Until he gets a reward, he's not changing his tune. |
As I said previously, it is hard to take someone seriously when they see the world as only reward and punishments. Incentives don't even play in the conversation because that would require some bit of humanity and empathy. |
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awambawamb
Joined: Feb 17, 2008
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May 08, 2019 - 21:24 |
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| Arktoris wrote: | | Until he gets a reward, he's not changing his tune. |
make a unique badge he could show on his profile. it's all he's asking after all, pixels on a page he doesn't have editing permissions on.
why is still going?
we Italians are not all that bad |
_________________
"la virtù sta nel cielo e nella terra, ma anche nelle nuvole e nelle stelle"
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mrt1212
Joined: Feb 26, 2013
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May 08, 2019 - 21:25 |
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Just had a situation where I activated for the 12:15 (PST) round, didn't realize I had a game scheduled, got a snack and used the restroom and grabbed some water...and I barely made it back before 10 minutes.
Under Dakka's proposal, if I hadn't made it back I would have not only lost the game but also had to make rolls on almost half the team to see if they quit?
Cmon. |
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stowelly
Joined: Mar 16, 2017
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May 08, 2019 - 21:36 |
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Someone didn't show up to my box game yesterday. I had to make a support ticket and find another game. It was a hellish experience. I hope they will be punished severely |
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MenonaLoco
Joined: Jan 05, 2016
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May 08, 2019 - 21:40 |
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MattDakka, if you modified your position already, why dont you edit the inicial post and indicate so? you would get strawmanned less and it wouldnt be about you as a wann a be poxel-thanos... |
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Jim_Fear
Joined: May 02, 2014
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| Posted:
May 08, 2019 - 22:01 |
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Any idea how large a Fumbbl donation would be necessary to have a user permanently banned?
Asking for a friend. |
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