Waagh
Joined: Apr 13, 2019
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 Posted:
May 09, 2019 - 00:15 |
 
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I have noticed that people tend to cherry pick the best matchups in ranked. What do you look for in a favorable matchup? what are your favorite matchups? What matchup do you avoid at all cost? Is Black box actually a better choice for inexperienced coaches to learn the game as they will have to learn to take all comers rather than learn to pick the easiest matchups? |
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Dominik
Joined: Oct 29, 2004
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May 09, 2019 - 00:26 |
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The best choice for inexperienced coaches is to play games they enjoy so that they stay active. Experience will follow. If new coaches try it the hard way, playing random matchups against experienced coaches, they may become frustrated and eventually quit playing. |
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mrt1212
Joined: Feb 26, 2013
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May 09, 2019 - 00:30 |
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Although I am not a Ranked player by trade and think that the notion of cherry picking is a bit overblown...
Some of the core tenets of picking are as follows:
Experience mismatches (Coach with 2000+ games vs. coach with 20 games)
Team Mismatches (Dorfs at 1100 vs. Amazons at 1100)
Refusal to consider counter offers.
Maintaining a mental 'black book' of the ripest cherries and offering games mostly to them.
I think one advantage of Box over Ranked for inexperienced coaches is getting a sense of how you stack up in a blizzard scenario. Generally, I would advise people to play Ranked first, find their feet, then challenge themselves to blizzard scenarios in Box to hone their adaptability and then select wherever they prefer to play to mostly play.
Personally, I have never seen myself as capable of seeking out fair games among coaches that play Ranked. My instincts lead me to either selecting games that are going to be a real challenge for me against the best coaches on the site or selecting pure creme puffs to indulge my fantasy builds. Box removes some of that agency from me and lets the fates decide putting my mind at ease that I'm not purposefully wasting someone's time in my pursuit of becoming a High Elf Prince-God  |
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koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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May 09, 2019 - 01:06 |
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| Waaghafalga wrote: | | What matchup do you avoid at all cost? |
As a slowish coach I like to avoid coaches who are always going on about how fast they are and whine about other coaches being slow.
Coach skill is also a factor. CR & rank is a rough indication of how much a coach wins. If a coach has a much higher CR than you, chances are they are going to win.
Playing some games against better coaches helps to improve skill. But some people won't enjoy going 0/0/20. |
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MrCushtie
Joined: Aug 10, 2018
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May 09, 2019 - 01:39 |
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I did not enjoy my time in Ranked, and I put that down to being cherrypicked by teams which had various advantages over me, and also not really knowing what I was doing. (Not that I know much more now, but I understand a bit...)
Box felt much better - I don't think my win rate is any better than before, but in the main it's been games I've lost but learned from, rather than games where I was a passive observer as my team was smashed to bits. |
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Jim_Fear
Joined: May 02, 2014
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May 09, 2019 - 02:29 |
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Endzone |
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Arktoris
Joined: Feb 16, 2004
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May 09, 2019 - 02:39 |
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| Dominik wrote: | | The best choice for inexperienced coaches is to play games they enjoy so that they stay active. Experience will follow. If new coaches try it the hard way, playing random matchups against experienced coaches, they may become frustrated and eventually quit playing. |
perfect advice |
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Hail to Manowar! The latest charioteer to DIE for bloodbowl! - Slain, by Ghor Oggaz |
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Lorebass
Joined: Jun 25, 2010
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100% Agree with Dom, ideally new coaches should play people who aren't building their teams just to smash other new ppl. Though that is not often the choice, while ranked seems to make the most sense for this I find Blackbox the best. Well, apart from 145 club. |
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bghandras
Joined: Feb 06, 2011
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May 09, 2019 - 09:32 |
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IF you activate rookie team, then you generally get a rookie team as opponent. In that scenario the only possible mismatches are coaching skill, and racial matchup. In that sense, this controlled chaos is probably more fair for a new-ish coach than a ranked matchup between his pimped team and some other (potentially cherry picking) opponent. |
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Verminardo
Joined: Sep 27, 2006
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May 09, 2019 - 11:23 |
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| Waaghafalga wrote: | | What do you look for in a favorable matchup? what are your favorite matchups? What matchup do you avoid at all cost? |
There were times when I was trying to build teams for Fumbbl Majors in Ranked. In those times, I would be looking for match-ups that would allow me to skill up my team fast while having comparably little risk of decimating my squad. So basically what used to be called Elfbowl, playing other Elven teams (or Vampires, or Slann) with my Elves, or at low TV playing undeveloped Chaos or Nurgle. And ideally against Star or lower ranked coaches. Avoid at all cost: Too much Tackle/MB. Any Tackle/MB/PO (which was a thing at the time).
This was very tiring for multiple reasons: 1) Didn't want to take too much advantage, but of course took advantage nontheless, always felt a little dirty about it. 2) Really not very many match-ups like that available, often only super bashy teams would offer to play me, and the coaches then would usually play "first the man, then the ball" style. 3) If I finally managed to find the perfect match-up I would have high expectations of what to get out of it in terms of team development, and then I wasn't good enough or lucky enough to really keep my promising players all safe, and would suffer setbacks and get frustrated.
Now with the BB16 changes and the return of the Bloat in Major teams, I have completely given up on that, so I usually just activate in the Box, but when I do go on Gamefinder I'll just be looking for fun and challenging matches. So when I get a chance to play against a really good coach I take it. Or I play some Flings or whatever.
| Quote: | | Is Black box actually a better choice for inexperienced coaches to learn the game as they will have to learn to take all comers rather than learn to pick the easiest matchups? |
There is an argument to be made for that once you've got the basics down. If you still struggle with some of the rules, or have problems finishing your turns in 4 minutes, or are frequently getting your players surfed, or don't know whether that pick-up thre is a 3+ or a 4+ before you see it in the client, you're probably not ready for Box and it's probably better to play other inexperienced coaches in 145 Club, a private league or the occasional Ranked game. But once you are at let's say Emerging Star level with your coaching, I do believe Blackbox is a great place to test your mettle and improve your coaching. If lose too much and get frustrated, just play a little bit of low TV Zons or Undead. |
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koadah
Joined: Mar 30, 2005
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May 09, 2019 - 11:41 |
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Strider84
Joined: Jun 03, 2009
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May 09, 2019 - 13:09 |
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Everyone has different goals in ranked:
Build a team for Majors
Increase coach rsting
Win games
Improve your skill
Build a legendary team (just play as much with that team)
Some meta game targets (badge hunting)
Avoiding/playing specific coaches with a good/bad experience in the past.
Talking about only the winning aspect of cherry picking, i guess the problem is that it is not possible for new coaches to figure out the relative winning chances given the teams and coach skill.
I think the original post was trying to help new players do that. |
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Mattius
Joined: Sep 03, 2006
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May 09, 2019 - 13:21 |
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For me now there is the black box tourney meta, with a nice mix of teams and many active players. Plus no more broken clmbpo teams and only one notable minmax player (I played a lot of ranked in the old rule set).
With this in mind, Ranked seems a bit redundant to me. I think it's good for players in difficult time zones. But I see it it more as a platform for friendlies than something competitive.
As mentioned in multiple threads, for new players, 145 club should be first port of call. |
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Verminardo
Joined: Sep 27, 2006
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| Posted:
May 09, 2019 - 14:00 |
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| Strider84 wrote: | Talking about only the winning aspect of cherry picking, i guess the problem is that it is not possible for new coaches to figure out the relative winning chances given the teams and coach skill.
I think the original post was trying to help new players do that. |
Interesting way to read it, if that's the intention then I guess looking at the statistics might be useful:
http://fumbbldata.azurewebsites.net/racevsrace.html |
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MattDakka
Joined: Oct 09, 2007
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May 09, 2019 - 14:12 |
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| Waaghafalga wrote: | | What do you look for in a favorable matchup? |
I don't play in Ranked anymore but, to answer: I check my roster and my opponent's and I see if there are skills very good vs my team (trivial example is Amazons-Dwarfs, Amazons have lot of Dodge and Dwarfs have lot of Tackle countering Dodge).
I check the opponent team's number of rrs (more than 3 are generally a bloat), the fan factor (high FF is a bloat), a.coaches and cheerleaders (bloat), not TV-efficient skills (Sneaky Git and Pass Block, for example), crippled players (bloat) and if there are stat freaks/skills with great synergy, Block, Dodge, AG 4 if I lack Tackle or Clawmb if I have AV 8+, Tentacles/Diving Tackle if I'm playing as Elves etc.
| Waaghafalga wrote: | | what are your favorite matchups? What matchup do you avoid at all cost? |
The reasonably balanced ones or the ones I'm not the underdog/overdog. Not a fan of mirror matches because in my experience they might be more dice-based, assuming same coaches' skill.
| Waaghafalga wrote: | | Is Black box actually a better choice for inexperienced coaches to learn the game as they will have to learn to take all comers rather than learn to pick the easiest matchups? |
In my opinion yes, because, especially when the teams are new (15 games or less), they benefit from rookie protection and they are not picked nor they can pick, that helps to improve. If you can pick/avoid some games you might remain in your comfort zone.
Especially now that PO has been removed, Box is less bashy than it used to be. Try some games there with a tier 1 team. |
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