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koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: Jul 15, 2019 - 01:15 Reply with quote Back to top

MenonaLoco wrote:
Why should an all box tournament be a minor?


A minor does not need to be Box only. Some people don't like Majors but do like tournaments that are bigger than Brawls. e.g. 16 or 32 teams. Max TV 2000, 1750, 1500.

MenonaLoco wrote:

Majors need to have different profiles anyway, so why not make one box only?


That has been asked many times. I guess the schedule could become bloated. That is probably why we won't get Minors.

We also have fewer coaches, so there may not be the demand.

MenonaLoco wrote:

One thing is the ability to see and appreciate the things that work well - but beware to not end up like soccer, where NOTHING is tried out. where they need decades to use cameras, etc.


We've been at this a long time. We've tried a whole load of things. We now have far fewer coaches than we had in the past. A lot of the things wouldn't work now.

No one is really coming up with any new ideas.

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O[L]C 2016 Swiss! - April ---- All Stars - Anniversary Bowl - Teams of Stars - 13th March
Waagh



Joined: Apr 13, 2019

Post   Posted: Jul 15, 2019 - 01:18 Reply with quote Back to top

I would totally join a NA box meta group that all play at x time 2 or 3 days a week or whatever. I just can't play ranked because of the feeling of being picked or picking on someone else... I just want a random opponent. If I draw someone that is not fun to play with then I guess that's what happens. TBH it happens to me in ranked all the time anyway. At least if 8 people show for the meta group you only have a 1/7 chance of having to play that guy. More in the draw means less likely you'll get stuck with him imo.
Waagh



Joined: Apr 13, 2019

Post   Posted: Jul 15, 2019 - 01:20 Reply with quote Back to top

Also I would play in a tournament if I could get a team at the tv level for such a thing without having to play in ranked.
koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: Jul 15, 2019 - 01:32 Reply with quote Back to top

Rumbles & Brawls are here now.

So are [SL] Rumbles and Brawls Mr. Green

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O[L]C 2016 Swiss! - April ---- All Stars - Anniversary Bowl - Teams of Stars - 13th March
smallman



Joined: Sep 24, 2007

Post   Posted: Jul 15, 2019 - 01:38 Reply with quote Back to top

Christer wrote:


So I challenge someone to actually make an effort into showing up at some specific time to get things running and see how it goes. Prove me wrong.



https://fumbbl.com/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=30586

Tried and proven wrong. I KNOW if box changed to hourly activations in off peak, i would activate more teams and much more games would get played, and we lose less people that struggle to get any games in box.
JellyBelly



Joined: Jul 08, 2009

Post   Posted: Jul 15, 2019 - 02:41 Reply with quote Back to top

koadah wrote:
No one is really coming up with any new ideas.


You know that isn't true koadah

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koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: Jul 15, 2019 - 02:49 Reply with quote Back to top

JellyBelly wrote:
koadah wrote:
No one is really coming up with any new ideas.


You know that isn't true koadah


I must have missed them. Please give me a summary.

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O[L]C 2016 Swiss! - April ---- All Stars - Anniversary Bowl - Teams of Stars - 13th March
JellyBelly



Joined: Jul 08, 2009

Post   Posted: Jul 15, 2019 - 03:23 Reply with quote Back to top

koadah wrote:
JellyBelly wrote:
koadah wrote:
No one is really coming up with any new ideas.


You know that isn't true koadah


I must have missed them. Please give me a summary.


I'm not going to summarize the whole thread for you, koadah. If you read back through it, many old ideas have been mentioned that were never tried or seriously considered. Plus a scattering of more original ones.

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"Opinions are like arseholes, everybody's got them and they all stink." - The protagonist, Fallout 2

"Go for the eyes, Boo! Go for the eyes!!" Razz
MenonaLoco



Joined: Jan 05, 2016

Post   Posted: Jul 15, 2019 - 03:26 Reply with quote Back to top

No. Not an additional Major. Just make one of the existing a box only event.
JellyBelly



Joined: Jul 08, 2009

Post   Posted: Jul 15, 2019 - 03:43 Reply with quote Back to top

Here's a new idea for you koadah that would really revitalize the NA Box:

A box-only major that is just for the NA timezone.

Ok, pre-empting you saying that wouldn't be fair to non-NA players: do a box-only major where the qualifiers are restricted to certain timezones and then the finals are combined, FIFA World Cup style. That hasn't been tried before, has it?

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"Opinions are like arseholes, everybody's got them and they all stink." - The protagonist, Fallout 2

"Go for the eyes, Boo! Go for the eyes!!" Razz
ArrestedDevelopment



Joined: Sep 14, 2015

Post   Posted: Jul 15, 2019 - 04:03 Reply with quote Back to top

Genuinely amused by the usual "barely play in/don't play in" box crowd either shooting down ideas or coming up with ridiculous premises when the chances of them actually activating don't increase with anything Christer might do.


Here's a fact - in the last week the active NA box active population has increased by at least one if not two coaches. In the last month, perhaps 2-3 more coaches now regularly activate in it. Most of the people saying the box is dead here won't know that because they barely activate in it, preferring league or ranked.

Nelphine wrote:
Christer, I hear your suggestion, but without being sure that predatory minmaxers wouldn't be able to identify that time slot (which would defeat the purpose), and without keeping my actual opponents unknown to me ahead of the box schedule, I wouldn't risk joining such a group.


There is ONE "predatory minmaxer" activating during NA hours. He's not going to ever be joining the FUMBBL discord or participating in any groups as he has, as stated in this thread, no interest in conversing with strangers. Thus if people want to set an arranged time to activate, they can do it there - it doesn't even take a group agreeing a time, just one person with a bit of initiative and visible alerts that others follow.

Hell, BillBrasky used to just bump a thread every time he'd just come online to let people know he'd be in box for the next X hours (whether this increased games is another matter).

JellyBelly wrote:
Christer wrote:
JellyBelly wrote:
the only thing that could conceivably improve the off-peak Blackbox situation is a system change.


That's categorically untrue.

It takes 4-5 people willing to make an effort instead of just complaining and saying "it doesn't work". I've said this many times in the past:

Find a group of nice people in the US time zone who are prepared to show up at 8pm central (or whatever) to activate in the box. Do it once per day or once per week.. Make a meta group for it if you want and have people get points for consecutive days of participation or whatever gamification things you want and have energy for. Get people involved and invested in actually showing up regularly.

If people see that there's a reliable time for a pairing, they'll likely make the time to show up.


All I can say to this is: much easier said than done. Without going into fine details, I actually tried to set up such a group of active NA Box FUMBBLers when the last Box Trophy started, and it failed spectacularly. We didn't even get a single activation. And this was starting with a group of people who already play on FUMBBL and had signed up to a year-long tournament.


I'm not really buying this to be honest - either the effort was lacking or the truth is, NA coaches just don't want to play box for whatever reason. Jelly, you yourself, are always posting in these threads and saying the box needs to be better/changed for NA hours, and yet, you seldom actually activate for it - I know this is the case because quite frankly, I've played more NA box than you despite being based in Europe.

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JellyBelly



Joined: Jul 08, 2009

Post   Posted: Jul 15, 2019 - 04:33 Reply with quote Back to top

ArrestedDevelopment wrote:
Genuinely amused by the usual "barely play in/don't play in" box crowd either shooting down ideas or coming up with ridiculous premises when the chances of them actually activating don't increase with anything Christer might do.


Genuinely amused by the usual people who don't play in the NA timezone trying to tell the NA coaches what our problems are and what's good for us (not pointing the finger at you here, AD).

ArrestedDevelopment wrote:
Here's a fact - in the last week the active NA box active population has increased by at least one if not two coaches. In the last month, perhaps 2-3 more coaches now regularly activate in it. Most of the people saying the box is dead here won't know that because they barely activate in it, preferring league or ranked.


Good news, I'm glad to hear it.

ArrestedDevelopment wrote:
JellyBelly wrote:
Christer wrote:
JellyBelly wrote:
the only thing that could conceivably improve the off-peak Blackbox situation is a system change.


That's categorically untrue.

It takes 4-5 people willing to make an effort instead of just complaining and saying "it doesn't work". I've said this many times in the past:

Find a group of nice people in the US time zone who are prepared to show up at 8pm central (or whatever) to activate in the box. Do it once per day or once per week.. Make a meta group for it if you want and have people get points for consecutive days of participation or whatever gamification things you want and have energy for. Get people involved and invested in actually showing up regularly.

If people see that there's a reliable time for a pairing, they'll likely make the time to show up.


All I can say to this is: much easier said than done. Without going into fine details, I actually tried to set up such a group of active NA Box FUMBBLers when the last Box Trophy started, and it failed spectacularly. We didn't even get a single activation. And this was starting with a group of people who already play on FUMBBL and had signed up to a year-long tournament.


I'm not really buying this to be honest - either the effort was lacking or the truth is, NA coaches just don't want to play box for whatever reason. Jelly, you yourself, are always posting in these threads and saying the box needs to be better/changed for NA hours, and yet, you seldom actually activate for it - I know this is the case because quite frankly, I've played more NA box than you despite being based in Europe.


I didn't add you to the pm, because you didn't sign up for the Box Trophy (at least I didn't see that you had, or I would have). I invited all the NA coaches that had signed up for the BBT. You would think there would have been some interest in setting up a weekly 'Box Trophy activation night', but sadly no. I did try. I even set up a Doodle poll to try to gauge what would be the best time for everyone.

It's true I haven't activated in the NA Box myself much recently. I've been busier than usual in RL and had my hands full with SLA. Besides, the removal of Box majors somewhat knocked my enthusiasm for Box, in general. I don't see how my lack of activity is really relevant though, tbh. The issues go beyond one individual, and I've played there enough to know what those issues are. Besides, maybe I would be more inclined to play, if the scheduler was better suited to a low-player environment. Chicken, egg and all that.

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"Opinions are like arseholes, everybody's got them and they all stink." - The protagonist, Fallout 2

"Go for the eyes, Boo! Go for the eyes!!" Razz
ArrestedDevelopment



Joined: Sep 14, 2015

Post   Posted: Jul 15, 2019 - 07:07 Reply with quote Back to top

Jelly, a group of coaches playing trophy is still a subset of possible activators within an already niche group. By limiting the initiative to people only playing trophy, you shoot yourself in the foot before even beginning.

If people want an NA box to succeed, it needs to be an inclusive venture, not exclusive. And that means anyone who might activate, not just people inside a metagroup/metagoal.

Lastly, yes, it does actually come down to individuals. If everyone is adopting the same attitude as you espouse here, then there is, as you allude to, an impasse. As I said, the majority of NA coaches appear to prefer R/L (overwhelmingly L from what I've seen in my years on the site). Whether this is a testament to the strength of the NA league scene, an unwillingness to play in the box, the lure of a guaranteed (scheduled) game that is comfortably enough for the night, or other reasons, doesn't really matter - the numbers are there most nights, they simply don't participate.

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koadah



Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Post   Posted: Jul 15, 2019 - 10:39 Reply with quote Back to top

JellyBelly wrote:
Here's a new idea for you koadah that would really revitalize the NA Box:

A box-only major that is just for the NA timezone.

Ok, pre-empting you saying that wouldn't be fair to non-NA players: do a box-only major where the qualifiers are restricted to certain timezones and then the finals are combined, FIFA World Cup style. That hasn't been tried before, has it?


Box only Majors have been tried before.
Regional qualifiers have been tried before, though not (I believe) in Box Majors.

So, you could argue that it is a new idea though it looks a lot like two old ones merged together. Wink

So, the question is why did we stop doing regional qualifiers?
I'm only guessing but it may have been "not enough coaches". That was back when we had a lot more coaches than we have now.

It is a good idea whether it is new or not. Wink
You might want to ask for a regional Minor as well as those are more accessible for the less active coaches so may actually energise more people that a Major.

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Thoriin



Joined: Apr 15, 2011

Post   Posted: Jul 15, 2019 - 10:40 Reply with quote Back to top

ArrestedDevelopment wrote:




Hell, BillBrasky used to just bump a thread every time he'd just come online to let people know he'd be in box for the next X hours


In his great times, that was :
Hell, BillBrasky used to just bump a thread every time he'd just come online to let people know he'd be in box for the next 72 hours
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