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Grod



Joined: Sep 30, 2003

Post   Posted: Aug 12, 2020 - 00:55 Reply with quote Back to top

There are a few subtle rule changes in BB2020 that potentially have an outsized implact on the way the game is played. One of them is the introduction of jump rules (please correct me if I got any of this wrong).

The main points - ANY player can now jump over a prone or stunned player. There is a modifier for maximum of the number of either the landing or starting tacklezones.

Leap skill is +1 modifier and can jump any square. So a war dancer has a basic leap of 1+ to any square, and is still a 3+ with 2 tackle zones at the landing square (as before).

My thoughts:

1. Although passing being split off from agility makes agility less valuable, allowing EVERY player to jump gives some (even a lot) of this value back.
2. Tight cages are more safe against leap, but slightly loose cages are not.
3. Screens in general are easier to circumvent through cleverly knocking down opponents into the right square.
4. Elves should have a field day - every elf can do a 2+ jump (and if you can manipulate the situation to just 1 tacklezone in the landing square, a 3+).
5. Outside of a tight cage, ball will be much harder to keep safe, as it's easier to by-pass a defensive line.
6. Skills like grab could be great for setting up nice jumps.

Anyone else have something?

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Oscar Wilde


Last edited by Grod on Aug 12, 2020 - 01:40; edited 1 time in total
Uedder



Joined: Aug 03, 2010

Post   Posted: Aug 12, 2020 - 01:03 Reply with quote Back to top

i like the new leap. Old leap was (g)old. Loved it but a nerf doesn't hurt.
ArrestedDevelopment



Joined: Sep 14, 2015

Post   Posted: Aug 12, 2020 - 01:30 Reply with quote Back to top

My thought is this is jump you're referring to, calling it leap is confusing.

It's very much a callback to 2nd ed though, where jumping over prone players was possible and modified by leap and heroic leap.

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Grod



Joined: Sep 30, 2003

Post   Posted: Aug 12, 2020 - 01:40 Reply with quote Back to top

ArrestedDevelopment wrote:
My thought is this is jump you're referring to, calling it leap is confusing.


Fair point. I edited the text appropriately.

_________________
I am so clever that sometimes I don't understand a single word of what I am saying.

Oscar Wilde
Ballcrusher



Joined: Dec 25, 2003

Post   Posted: Aug 12, 2020 - 06:19 Reply with quote Back to top

The leap skill is not +1. It reduces negative modificer by 1 but only down to -1.

So an AG2+ elf will jump to/from:
0 tackle zones on a 2+ (with or without leap - no negative modifier)
1 tackle zone on a 3+ (with or without leap - still -1 negative modifier with leap)
2 tackle zones 3+ with leap and 4+ without leap
3 tackle zones 4+ with leap and 5+ without leap
4 tackle zones 5+ with leap and 6+ without leap
5 tackle zones 6+ (with or without leap)
PeteW



Joined: Aug 05, 2005

Post   Posted: Aug 12, 2020 - 08:40 Reply with quote Back to top

It brings occasional tactical options, but looking at the dice rolls, it appears to be the same as dodging, if you are jumping into trouble, and worse than dodging if you are jumping out of tzs. As blitzing elves will often have dodge skill, I suspect dodging into a loose cage will almost always be better than jumping, except for the odd situation.

I may be wrong, but I don't think this will be that huge.

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Medon



Joined: Jan 28, 2015

Post   Posted: Aug 12, 2020 - 11:49 Reply with quote Back to top

Do you have to count tackle zones to AND from? So leaping in a cage is -1 from starting square and -3 from ending square?
C0ddlefish



Joined: Sep 17, 2019

Post   Posted: Aug 12, 2020 - 11:59 Reply with quote Back to top

Its worst case I believe. So jumping from 2 TZ into 3TZs, then you take the 3. jumping from 2TZ into 1TZ then you take the 2.
Arthas85



Joined: Apr 27, 2006

Post   Posted: Aug 12, 2020 - 12:42 Reply with quote Back to top

Yep, you count both TZ (from and into) and use the higher number to define the modifier.
Grod



Joined: Sep 30, 2003

Post   Posted: Aug 12, 2020 - 13:44 Reply with quote Back to top

Consider an Elf E trying to get past this wall:

Code:

. . E . . . .
X . . X . . X
X . . X . . X


Now simply blitz the X in front back to the second row:
Code:

. . . . . . .
X . . E . . X
X . . X P . X


And jump over the prone player for a 3+ roll

Code:

. . . . . . .
X . . . . . X
X . . X P . X
. . . . E . .


Essentially you've combined 2 dodge rolls into 1. Would the new 3+ Pro skill become a strong contender for elves that want to both dodge and jump? Especially as it isn't negated by tackle?

_________________
I am so clever that sometimes I don't understand a single word of what I am saying.

Oscar Wilde
plasmoid



Joined: Nov 03, 2009

Post   Posted: Aug 15, 2020 - 10:28 Reply with quote Back to top

Jumping (= leaping over prone players) allowed for some crazy shite back in 2nd ed.

It isn't that hard to come up with a situation where a well placed pushback/knockdown allows you to escape a bad situation with one roll. If you manage to drop the opposing player so you can do a diagonal Jump, it can get pretty easy.
mrt1212



Joined: Feb 26, 2013

Post   Posted: Aug 15, 2020 - 10:53 Reply with quote Back to top

Grod wrote:
Consider an Elf E trying to get past this wall:

Code:

. . E . . . .
X . . X . . X
X . . X . . X


Now simply blitz the X in front back to the second row:
Code:

. . . . . . .
X . . E . . X
X . . X P . X


And jump over the prone player for a 3+ roll

Code:

. . . . . . .
X . . . . . X
X . . X P . X
. . . . E . .


Essentially you've combined 2 dodge rolls into 1. Would the new 3+ Pro skill become a strong contender for elves that want to both dodge and jump? Especially as it isn't negated by tackle?


Where this really comes together for me is figuring out ways to create prone players as elves and Frenzy, Wrestle, Jump Up all are asking for a looksie if you can preserve your Blitz to use for an actual attack on the ball in some way.
Azeroth84



Joined: Aug 29, 2009

Post   Posted: Aug 15, 2020 - 11:51 Reply with quote Back to top

I think jump is an extreme game changer.
Now an elf in order to get the td (in a worst real case) need only a 3+ jump and then a 2+ dodge, vs 3 dodges at 4+,3+ and 2+ before (even a regular lineman with ag 3+ only needs a 4+ and a 3+ jump/dodge to pass through). This mean that older defence styles as the one pictured above will be totally uneffective.

Defence tactics and strategies should be completely changed.

Side step and stand firm skill acquire a new strategical dimension (and on the other side grab).
uzkulak



Joined: Mar 30, 2004

Post   Posted: Aug 15, 2020 - 13:38 Reply with quote Back to top

Sounds like the new rules will lead to less stalling and time management as it will be comparatively harder to cage for extended periods. Sounds like a good change to me, but I'm sure some people will have a different view.
Grod



Joined: Sep 30, 2003

Post   Posted: Aug 16, 2020 - 01:59 Reply with quote Back to top

Another really practical use of jump. With Dwarves and other bash teams, I often set up when kicking using something like this:

Code:

- - - -|- - - - - - -|- - - -
. . . .|. . D D D . .|. . . .
. . D .|. D . . . D .|. D . .
. D . .|D . . . . . D|. . D .


This setup primarily relies on the fact that even if you knock down the 3 LoS players, their prone bodies gum up the line of scrummage and create a barrier, keeping the pesky elves in their half of the field. Skills like Stand Firm, Side step, Diving tackle and Tackle in the right places can make this truly tough to penetrate.

Imagine a bunch of elves with wrestle - you might after some blocking end up in a situation like this:

Code:

. . . .|. E P P P E .|. . . .
- - - -|- - - - - - -|- - - -
. . . .|. . P P P . .|. . . .
. . D .|. D . . . D .|. D . .
. D . .|D . . . . . D|. . D .


In the current ruleset, this is pretty "gummed up". The Elves now need to blitz and knock over the right Dwarf successfully, or they will need to take signficant risks to get into the back field of the Dwarves. Even then, the channel will be limited and not all Elves will be close enough to penetrate deeply. With the new "jump" rules, the two Elf [E] players, still on their side of the field, only need a 2+ jump roll to get into the opponents back half of the field:

Code:

. . . .|. . P P P E .|. . . .
- - - -|- - - - - - -|- - - -
. . . .|. . P P P . .|. . . .
. . D .|. D . E . D .|. D . .
. D . .|D . . . . . D|. . D .


This is basically how the new jump rules are designed to open up the pitch for running elf teams, despite them losing some of their passing abilities.

_________________
I am so clever that sometimes I don't understand a single word of what I am saying.

Oscar Wilde
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