FUMBBL :: Online Blood Bowl League

Welsh_Cthulu

Joined: Aug 06, 2020

Posted: Aug 20, 2020 - 12:43

Has FUMBBL ever tried 2 minute turns? If so, how did it go?

I've had a lot of time off work so I've got 100+ games and I'm liking it so far but it's fairly obvious that Blood Bowl doesn't need 4 minute turns, evidenced by the success of BB2, especially in the later stages of the game where there are significantly less players on the field and actions are generally more obvious.

It just seems like this place would get a lot more players and capitalise on the growing success of the game after the PC version exploded if games were quicker - or players were at least given an option. I got recommended the site by a friend in my local BB league. There's about 30 of us. All of them have tried it but it's way too slow for most of them - and these are mostly older guys in their 40s and 50s, not young bucks used to instant gratification! Smile

Also, it's a Java client, so lag should not be an issue.

MattDakka

Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Posted: Aug 20, 2020 - 12:58

Consider this: there is no automatic time out, so people inventing fake real life emergencies could still take more than 2 minutes per turn and you could not legally time them out according to site rules.
Also, Christer wants to stick to official rules, and official rules say 4 minutes per turn.
I used to play with 2 minutes turn on BB1 and BBLE but there time out was automatic and disconnecters could not rejoin the game after 5 minutes, unlike here on FUMBBL.

Welsh_Cthulu

Joined: Aug 06, 2020

Posted: Aug 20, 2020 - 13:06

MattDakka wrote:

Consider this: there is no automatic time out, so people inventing fake real life emergencies could still take more than 2 minutes per turn and you could not legally time them out according to site rules.
Also, Christer wants to stick to official rules, and official rules say 4 minutes per turn.
I used to play with 2 minutes turn on BB1 and BBLE but there time out was automatic and disconnecters could not rejoin the game after 5 minutes, unlike here on FUMBBL.

If 2 minute turns were implemented, it wouldn't necessitate an automatic time out. I actually like the way timeouts are utilised now. I don't think they should be automatic, but I do think it should be at the behest of the opposing player.

Also, where in the new rules are 4 minute turns stipulated? I can't see anything. I could be wrong though.

koadah

Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Posted: Aug 20, 2020 - 13:10

I thought that commissioners had an option to change this. I can't find it now though.

I thought that 3 minutes was pretty good on BB1.

2 minutes was pretty good. Until it wasn't. Mr. Green

So, that is a no for me.

If the league option isn't there, it would be nice to have it. But is not a priority.

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Welsh_Cthulu

Joined: Aug 06, 2020

Posted: Aug 20, 2020 - 13:14

koadah wrote:

I thought that commissioners had an option to change this. I can't find it now though.

I thought that 3 minutes was pretty good on BB1.

2 minutes was pretty good. Until it wasn't. Mr. Green

So, that is a no for me.

If the league option isn't there, it would be nice to have it. But is not a priority.

How about 2 mins 30m seconds? I'm haggling!

3 minutes is definitely an improvement though.

4 minutes is too long. If FUMBBL wants to adopt some PC players, it has to speed up.

Foad

Joined: Sep 02, 2007

Posted: Aug 20, 2020 - 13:21

Welsh_Cthulu wrote:

Has FUMBBL ever tried 2 minute turns? If so, how did it go?

Also, it's a Java client, so lag should not be an issue.

Laughing all the way from Australia @1900 ping during peak.

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uzkulak

Joined: Mar 30, 2004

Posted: Aug 20, 2020 - 13:24

Shorter turns encourages less exciting and expansive play in my opinion. Im not a fan of it. I tried BB1 with 2 min turns and you are basically forced to just do a basic blitz/cage routine or risk getting timed out. There are already enough penalties in the game for trying to do something more interesting.

It also penalises newer players.

Welsh_Cthulu

Joined: Aug 06, 2020

Posted: Aug 20, 2020 - 13:24

Foad wrote:

Welsh_Cthulu wrote:

Has FUMBBL ever tried 2 minute turns? If so, how did it go?

Also, it's a Java client, so lag should not be an issue.

Laughing all the way from Australia @1900 ping during peak.

Yeah, I read about Aussie internet recently. WTF is up with all of that?

koadah

Joined: Mar 30, 2005

Posted: Aug 20, 2020 - 13:51

Welsh_Cthulu wrote:

koadah wrote:

I thought that commissioners had an option to change this. I can't find it now though.

I thought that 3 minutes was pretty good on BB1.

2 minutes was pretty good. Until it wasn't. Mr. Green

So, that is a no for me.

If the league option isn't there, it would be nice to have it. But is not a priority.

How about 2 mins 30m seconds? I'm haggling!

3 minutes is definitely an improvement though.

4 minutes is too long. If FUMBBL wants to adopt some PC players, it has to speed up.

If you want quick(ish) games then yeah 2:30 is ideal IMO.
Personally, most of the time I don't. Wink

But this new fangled "competitive" division might be just the place for 2:30 turns.

In my experience, most Fumbbl coaches seem pretty quick to me. So, I have to ask. Who were your friends playing against? Twisted Evil

If so many coaches really were that slow then maybe that should tell us that 3 mins is the minimum and we're probably better of sticking with 4.

I also believe that most Fumbbl coaches won't time people out anyway so we'd be looking at shifting the culture even further.

That said, I don't know what the new culture is intended to be. So 2:30 for "competitive" and 4:00 for League might be the way forward.

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Welsh_Cthulu

Joined: Aug 06, 2020

Posted: Aug 20, 2020 - 14:00

koadah wrote:

Welsh_Cthulu wrote:

koadah wrote:

I thought that commissioners had an option to change this. I can't find it now though.

I thought that 3 minutes was pretty good on BB1.

2 minutes was pretty good. Until it wasn't. Mr. Green

So, that is a no for me.

If the league option isn't there, it would be nice to have it. But is not a priority.

How about 2 mins 30m seconds? I'm haggling!

3 minutes is definitely an improvement though.

4 minutes is too long. If FUMBBL wants to adopt some PC players, it has to speed up.

If you want quick(ish) games then yeah 2:30 is ideal IMO.
Personally, most of the time I don't. Wink

But this new fangled "competitive" division might be just the place for 2:30 turns.

In my experience, most Fumbbl coaches seem pretty quick to me. So, I have to ask. Who were your friends playing against? Twisted Evil

If so many coaches really were that slow then maybe that should tell us that 3 mins is the minimum and we're probably better of sticking with 4.

I also believe that most Fumbbl coaches won't time people out anyway so we'd be looking at shifting the culture even further.

That said, I don't know what the new culture is intended to be. So 2:30 for "competitive" and 4:00 for League might be the way forward.

All good points. I guess there may be a "slower" culture on FUMBBL, enforced by a bigger turn limit, than there is on TT and PC maybe? This inhibits people from tolerating this version of online play I guess. As I said, not me, because it's generally not a problem, but I really do think that 2 minutes is closer to how Blood Bowl should be played than 4 minutes.

pedro_fgomes

Joined: Mar 25, 2018

Posted: Aug 20, 2020 - 14:02

Even with 4 minute turns, a FUMBBL game is still much faster than a BB2 game, based on my experience. usually my games here last 1h or sometimes even less.

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Dominik

Joined: Oct 29, 2004

Posted: Aug 20, 2020 - 14:09

There was a league called "speed freaks" with 1 minute turns. Revive it and get all your friends to play there. They should be happy. On a side note: i was spectating some of these games since it is interesting what plays can be done with 5.4 seconds available for each player.

Welsh_Cthulu

Joined: Aug 06, 2020

Posted: Aug 20, 2020 - 14:10

pedro_fgomes wrote:

Even with 4 minute turns, a FUMBBL game is still much faster than a BB2 game, based on my experience. usually my games here last 1h or sometimes even less.

FUMBBL is so much better than BB2 in many ways. The skill level of opponents. The league structures. The races available. The community.

Quicker, it is not. Noticeably slower, it is.

Yoda, I am.

MattDakka

Joined: Oct 09, 2007

Posted: Aug 20, 2020 - 14:19

No automatic time out suggests the intention of not forcing people to play fast, so I don't think 2 minutes will be ever be implemented.

Games with 1 minute timer are really stupid and alter drastically the nature of the game, favouring agile and fast teams.
Also, try to play your Vampire (or tier 3) team with 1 minute turn, good luck!

Welsh_Cthulu

Joined: Aug 06, 2020

Posted: Aug 20, 2020 - 14:25

MattDakka wrote:

No automatic time out suggests the intention of not forcing people to play fast, so I don't think 2 minutes will be ever be implemented.

Games with 1 minute timer are really stupid and alter drastically the nature of the game, favouring agile and fast teams.
Also, try to play your Vampire (or tier 3) team with 1 minute turn, good luck!

1 minute turns is absurd. Who's suggested that?

And why have a timeout button at all if it's not used? Like I said above, it should be at the behest of the opponent, but if you don;t have either an automatic timeout, or the option of one, Blood Bowl online in any format would be unplayable.