hunter
Joined: Aug 11, 2003
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  Posted:
Aug 02, 2004 - 18:41 |
 
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Well, there has been a plethora of new team ideas for the stunty leeg of late, but I haven't seen this one come up. I'll give the fluff and stats in a second, but beforehand let me second Clementus' opinion that someone (with sufficient time) should compile a list of new stunty teams that have been suggested, for reasons of playtesting/ inclusion into fumbbl. I would love to undertake such a task, but I do not have the time for such a thing.
Anyway, on to the team. Now, I've noticed that often when someone comes up with a new team idea, it seems totally unbalanced in some way (e.g., str8 giants, can't fail dodges, etc.). I have not playtested this team, but it does not seem overly unbalanced to me at this point. Of course, many of you are more knowlegeable than I re: BB, so I certainly welcome all comments and suggestions!
Here's the fluff, and if you watch The Simpsons, you should get a little laugh out of this:
In one episode, Homer and Bart acquire a racing horse, Furious D. The horse is fast, and tends to cower its opponents into submission. Homer and Bart win race after race.... until the jockeys have had enough! As it turns out (and this is actually true in real life!), jockeys are essentially little elvish-looking midgets who live underground in trees reminiscent of the Keebler elf tree (no joke!). The jockeys kidnap Homer and take him to their lair, and threaten him to stop winning.
Anyway, here's the most salient fluff: jockeys are little, underground-dwelling, angry, jealous... people (?). They are tired of being ridiculed by those of us fortunate to grow beyond a meter tall, and have resolved to prove themselves on the BB pitch as the greatest stunty team around. A team is composed of the following players:
0-2 Bull Centaur 130000 6 4 2 9 Sprint, Sure Feet, Thick Skull G S
0-12 Horseless Jockey 30000 5 2 3 6 Dodge, Right Stuff, Stunty A
0-2 Angry Jockey Jouster 60000 5 2 3 7 Dodge, Jump Up, Poisoned Dagger, No Hands, Thick Skull A
0-1 Disgruntled Farrier 70000 5 2 3 7 Dodge, Right Stuff, Stunty, Kick, Dirty Player A
Rerolls = 80000
Apothecary = Yes
Wizard = No
Big Guys = None
The Angry Jockey Jouster has "shot up" with performance-enhancing steroids before the match. His anger has gotten the best of him, and he has taken a weapon onto the field. In his drug-crazed state, his senses are dulled to pain, and he is more difficult to damage (as evidenced by av7, Jump Up, and Thick Skull). However, he is so juiced that he has no desire or ability to carry a ball, and thus has No Hands. Besides, his tiny little paws wouldn't be able to carry anything besides the weapon (a poisoned joust). Also note that the weapon-carrier has lost his stunty status due to the unwieldly weapon he is carrying about.
Fluff re: Disgruntled Farrier to be added later.
Comments? Ideas? Questions?
Thanks for your input!
~hunter |
Last edited by hunter on %b %03, %2004 - %23:%Aug; edited 6 times in total |
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AlcingRagaholic
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Aug 02, 2004 - 18:57 |
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Ah... the beautiful humour of the Simpsons...
Personally, I can understand the Dagger, but not the Chainsaw... it doesn't quite fit the fluff... make the daggers 2 instead of 1? Also, the Rerolls might be too expensive... 80K is too high, 70K would fit better.
It's a pretty good idea.
Z |
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Dooby
Joined: Nov 22, 2003
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Aug 02, 2004 - 19:09 |
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LOL I'm a great fan of the Simpsons and that team is funny. I feel its a about right. Fast big guys, weak main dudes a little brittle but made up for in a couple of secret weapons.
Probably a bit too much like chaos flings to ever get approved. |
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Dooby
Joined: Nov 22, 2003
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| Posted:
Aug 02, 2004 - 19:11 |
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BTW I have time so if anything needs compiling regarding teams and stuff to do with stunty give me a shout |
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hunter
Joined: Aug 11, 2003
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| Posted:
Aug 02, 2004 - 19:52 |
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Thanks for the input.... I agree with AloneAndBurned, and will remove the chainsaw and add another jouster. Not sure about the rerolls... at 80k a team could start with 2 BC, 2 jousters, 7 horseless jockeys, 9 ff, an apoth, and still have 270 k in the bank. This would allow 3 rerolls. If they were 70k, you could drop 1 ff and afford 4. What do you think? |
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EvolveToAnarchism
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Aug 02, 2004 - 21:24 |
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If you are looking for a compedium of Stunty Leeg proposal, you might want to look here. It still needs to some work as it's a quick transfer from my old website that I can no longer access.
As for jokeys, [S] is not the Simpsons Leeg.
As Always,
Evolve To Anarchism
Simspons and Anarchism |
_________________
Ignorance is Strength quis custodiet ipsos custodes As Always, Evolve To Anarchism |
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hunter
Joined: Aug 11, 2003
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| Posted:
Aug 02, 2004 - 21:45 |
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Well, we're all aware that [S] does not stand for Simpsons, but that shouldn't prevent a decent team idea from developing. I would rather hear criticism about the team's potential, should you have any. |
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Stunty Leeg Central - For ALL your Stunty needs! |
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Dooby
Joined: Nov 22, 2003
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Aug 02, 2004 - 22:03 |
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Quite right too Hunter - I love stunty and any well thought out race that you or Matt Groening can come up with is appreciated. |
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EvolveToAnarchism
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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 Posted:
Aug 02, 2004 - 23:51 |
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| hunter wrote: | | Well, we're all aware that [S] does not stand for Simpsons, but that shouldn't prevent a decent team idea from developing. I would rather hear criticism about the team's potential, should you have any. |
Since you ask for it. 
1) Fluff. Fluff is an important part of any Stunty Leeg proposal.
a) There's a sure-fire guaranteed way to get your Stunty Leeg proposal shot down in flames. That's creating a team that does not belong in the Warhammer Universe. Not only does your team concept not belong in the Warhammer Universe, it is ripped off from ANOTHER UNIVERSE. For the same reason, don't hold your breath for Duergar, Smurf or Cabbage Patch Kids teams.
b) Not only have you gone and created a team from ANOTHER UNIVERSE, you have gone and corrupted the universes. What the hell are Bull Centaurs doing in the Simpson Universe??? If they are jockeys, they should have horses, not Bull Centaurs. Please be consistent with your stolen ideas.
2) Unique. When designing a Stunty Leeg team your team should be different from other pre-existing teams. Try your utmost not to duplicate another teams schtick.
a) How are jockeys different than halflings? Oops! They aren't. 
b) Bull Centaurs. Yeah, they'd add something unique to the Stunty Leeg. Too bad they are completely out of place on this roster. You might want to take a look at the Ungor/Bray thread (see Centigors) and see if you can develop a team that plays up this unique kind of Big Guy.
c) Angry Jouster. Yet another fluff inconsistency creeps into your team. Now we've got mini-knights of the round table thrown into the mix. Not only does he seem out of place but he steals the Brownie schtick and the posion daggers of Snotlings and Skinks.
3) Novel Playing Style. New Stunty Leeg Teams should add a new suitably mayhemful playing style to the Stunty Leeg.
a) Halflings aided by Bull Centaurs, regardless of the fluff atrocities commited above, would offer a new playing style to the Stunty Leeg. Unfortunately, it's a dull mayhemless style that would focus on the Bull Centaurs dull-ly trudging up the field to score all their TDs.
Conclusion: not FUN! nor a well thought out race. But a good jokey team. 
As Always,
Evolve To Anarchism
Ungor Thread |
_________________
Ignorance is Strength quis custodiet ipsos custodes As Always, Evolve To Anarchism |
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hunter
Joined: Aug 11, 2003
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Aug 03, 2004 - 02:58 |
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Well, perhaps I need to be a little more clear to help out some people...
The idea for a jockey team was INSPIRED by a Simpsons episode, not "ripped off" from any particular universe. The idea was mine. Read the "salient fluff" paragraph for review. If it is so vitally important that a team have fluff based in the Warhammer universe, that can easily be created, like the Circus Team on evo's website. In that instance, a single sentence ("The team is supposed to represent a travelling circus that also plays Blood Bowl.") is the basis for linkage to the Warhammer universe. Not too creative, you must admit. If Warhammer fluff is what it would take to be able to introduce a fun team to the Stunty Leeg, I would do it, although I would argue that it is a silly prerequisite.
Accusing one of stealing ideas is not a respectful or mature thing to do. It is particularly irritating when it comes from someone who has a character with a quote that "Property is theft", and another with the quote "Basically the message is: Steal It! Art, music, culture, the odd book and the slab of cheese... the new will be built upon the ruins of the old." If you truly believe the messages that these individuals portray, and since ideas are intellectual property, then you are hypocritcal to assert that anything has been stolen or that it was wrong to do so (if I had). Please be consistent with your propaganda and attitude.
Since when is it required that the stats of different races all be different? Just because horseless jockeys and halflings have the same stats do not make them the same characters. If you have a suggestion to change them, as I requested earlier, please make it. I'm looking for CONSTRUCTIVE criticism, not simpleton criticism.
As for style of play that jockeys would undertake, one possibililty is Bull Centaurs drudging upfield to score all the TD's. However, if you were an opposing coach, is that something that you would allow? If you allow your opponent to score on you all the time, maybe you would, but for those of us who try to win, my guess is that the BC's will become immediate targets. And with str4, it will only require a few safeties or 1 BG to stop them. Besides that obvious point, no one will be required to use this team if they do not desire to. If the only scoring option you see is a one-dimensional trudge upfield, then perhaps you either need to a) expand your thought processes a bit, or b) play some other race.
Conclusion: potentially very FUN! and a much more thought out race than many others I have seen suggested.
I welcome additional comments related to the playability of the team. If you are interested, I have modified an .html file for a beginning team for playtesting. Send me a PM with your e-mail address, and I will send it to you.
~hunter |
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peikko
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Aug 03, 2004 - 08:27 |
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Well, personally I tend to think stunty proposals on following way:
60% Comes on how unique proposal is, how different race is to make it giving something new.
35% Somewhat balanced to make it playable. Basic idea for new teams is to keep it on safe way and make them preferably little bit too weaker instead or littlebit too strong.
5% Fluff, this is where my opinion differs the most with Evo, I dont see fluff giving much anything to the how enjoyable some race is to play. If someone needs strong fluff they can always theme their teams in the way they want.
Stunty is not ment to be that serious, its for fun and mayhem. Its not ment to be anything like LRB, but something different. But its not ment to be total chaos and unbalanced munchkinism either. This still is game and one of the main point should always be about competition, winning the game. |
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EvolveToAnarchism
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Aug 03, 2004 - 10:21 |
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Unfortunately, you had to resort to ill founded personal attacks when you had difficulty dealing with my thorough criticism of a poorly thought out team.
1) Fluff is vital to Blood Bowl. The whole Warhammer Universe adds to the appeal of the whole Blood Bowl hobby. It's a pity that you seem to give it so little thought or value.
2) Groundless accusations about anarchist values. I'm glad you've taken the time to read the information I post throughout my teams. It's a pity you seem to only be concerned about how to use them as ammunition for petty personal attacks.
I have nothing wrong with "stealing" other people's creative works. If it's done well, the new creation can be a refreshing addition to the creative commons. But when it's done poorly, it's just a rip-off. Yes, property is theft. Especially when people attempt to claim ownership over the cultural commons.
The problem I have with your derivation is that it is so poorly thought out. It's a hodge podge of ideas with very little connection to eachother or the whole creative enterprise that is the Stunty Leeg. Bull Centaurs, the Simpsons, Jockeys and Jousters. It just doesn't fit together or in the existing Stunty Leeg.
3) Uniqueness. Your team is a bunch of "halflings" with a pair of bull centaurs and some ridiculous jockeys tagged on. This hardly adds a unique fluffy team to the Stunty Leeg.
4) Maturity. You dismissed my initial brief criticism of the Jokey team. When I respond with a thorough critcism of the whole concept, you try to pull a despicable bait and switch where you misrepresent my views and engage in pointless name calling. Then after trudging in the mud (and refusing to seriously deal with many of my points), you ask for constructive criticism. It appears that you only seem interested in criticism that you agree with... hardly very constructive.
As Always,
Evolve To Anarchism
Learn the meaning before you start wildly tossing it around |
_________________
Ignorance is Strength quis custodiet ipsos custodes As Always, Evolve To Anarchism |
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hunter
Joined: Aug 11, 2003
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| Posted:
Aug 03, 2004 - 17:27 |
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lol.... you are obviously delusional. You might want to reread your posts to see who began the personal attacks. Let me help: go back to where you accused me of ripping off and stealing ideas.
I had no difficulty with your criticism, just the fact that you criticized largely without making suggestions for change. That is not constructive by any means.
Your OPINION is that fluff is vital to BB. You are entitled to your opinion, but you should always remember to state it as such. I know nothing of the Warhammer universe, nor do I care. I realize that BB came from that universe, but I have enjoyed the game for over a year now with absolutely no knowledge of the universe and have thoroughly enjoyed my experience. So, again it is your OPINION that knowledge of the Warhammer universe adds to the hobby, but it is not a truth or fact. Pity me all you want, but it won't change anything.
Your opinion that the team is "poorly thought out" seems to be equivalent with your opinion that there needs to be more fluff. I am no longer interested in your opinions regarding fluff, and I don't understand how you assert that the team doesn't fit in the Stunty Leeg. There are 2 strong players, 2 weapons, and lots of little guys. Very crunchy overall. If you want something changed with the jockeys because they are too much like halflings, then SUGGEST something, don't just criticize. Haven't you been listening about my desire for constructive criticism?
You should note that the first few posts on the board were on topic and offered constructive criticism, which I took into account to change the team a bit. There was also a bit of criticism regarding rerolls that I am unsure about, and asked for additional input. So, to argue that I am only looking for criticism that I agree with is clearly erroneous. Maybe you should review the previous posts before sticking your foot in your mouth further.
I would certainly welcome input from others- thanks for your help peikko.
I think that the jockey team would certainly be a different style of play in the stunty leeg, and one that would be interesting. The BC represent both the team's main strength and main weakness, and style of play will depend on how you use them. I see the team as pretty balanced at this point, although I would welcome further constructive input to that regard.
~hunter |
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BadMrMojo
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Aug 03, 2004 - 20:08 |
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Peikko is basically the stunty admin so I'll use his criteria and my own arbitrary 1-10 scale to come up with a total. In order to keep this on topic, I will not mention the Simpsons anywhere in my discussion, ok? We can all just forget the Simpsons from here on out. The show has nothing to do with the team and vice-versa.
Unique
I personally don't see a particularly unique style of play inherent in the roster. You have stunties (identical to halflings/c-flings), 2 secret weapons (similar to carvers) and 2 'big guys' with the schtick that they are fast, can use RRs and are 'only' ST 4. The BCs are the most unique feature, but even that has been done (sauri on the original skink teams, for example. Dauntless Orc Slayers are close as well). I can't honestly see what is so unique. With 2 'real' players, 2 secret weapons and the rest flings, it seems like a simple modification of flings/c-flings to me. Am I missing something?
Grade: 4/10
Balance
With that being said, the balance is relatively good. I think these are slightly more powerful than chaos flings (more reliable, slightly more expensive "big guys" but weaker) but pretty close. This is specifically because of their similarity, which scored low marks above.
Grade: 8/10
Fluff
Sorry, I'm not trying to rain on your parade but I think this is pretty inadequate. If I may paraphrase what I've read so far:
| Code: | | "They're small, horse-riding humans who hate tall people so they all get off their horses and play bloodbowl against short people and try to kill them. They also bring along their friends the mutant, evil dwarves (who must live in the mountains near the keebler-ish tree?) and then they get a few of their own guys really high and give them sticks to whack people." |
That's just weak, in my opinion. Maybe if we called the BCs "Mounted Jockeys" and gave them the same stats, we can knock one of those problems off but it's still weak.
Grade (with "Mounted Jockey" suggestion): 2/10
So, in my opinion and using the designated admin's own scale, the total is as follows:
4 x .60 = 2.4
8 x .35 = 2.8
2 x .05 = 0.1
total = 5.3/10 = 53%
Sorry, but I'd personally say back to the drawing board. The playability of the team is the primary ingredient and it's just too close to flings or c-flings to 'work' as proposed. The only upside of your suggestion is its balance, which is only because of its worst feature, which is its uniqueness.
PM me if you want an opinion regarding the personal attack/flame war issue, hunter. I will only mention that I disagree with you in this respect. |
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Dooby
Joined: Nov 22, 2003
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| Posted:
Aug 03, 2004 - 20:19 |
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I think any team when you have 'Jockey' in the name is just brilliant. There are so many joke names you can work with on the team. |
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