hunter
Joined: Aug 11, 2003
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 Posted:
Aug 04, 2004 - 04:04 |
 
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Thanks for the input. You are entitled to your opinions. However, I would greatly appreciate to hear more from those of you who have constructive criticism, as opposed to a simple I like it/ I don't like it. It is easier to destroy than to build...
Thanks,
~hunter |
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Wallace
Joined: May 26, 2004
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Aug 04, 2004 - 05:21 |
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You've gotten plenty of constructive criticism but have ignored it calling it 'petty' when in fact people were being extremely patient with you.
I also read this thread a while ago and thought the roster was pretty poor. The only constructive comment I can make is ditch it and think of somthing else. You can't present a brick and then ask "can I have some constructive cristism on my new jet fighter?". It just don't work, sometimes you just need to start again. The team you present just offers nothing new or interesting. |
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karix
Joined: Aug 18, 2003
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Aug 04, 2004 - 07:28 |
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Ok 2 things: 1) at the moment the team's unity is weak.. there is a common thread in that everyone in the team has something to do with horses...
but there are no horses... a slight problem eh?
2) i do have some suggestions
to make things mesh better get rid of the anger jouster... give him and give him a whip - still works like poison dagger only its something that alot of jockey's use against their horses... so it creates more synergy
other idea's include somehow getting horses into the team... that means the bullcentaurs are going to need to be tweaked with and possibly something new come up with... the bull centaurs for instance could become mounted jockets (more synergy again ;>) exact same stats... move 6 with sprint and sure feet (horses are good at running ;>) but only ag 2 cos if the jockey wants to interact with the ball he's going to have to reach down somehow (probably with a scoop or something else difficult like that) either way its harder than usual for him to get to the ball and thus only ag 2. and finally st 4 cos the horse is going to be the one doing the blocking..
now you need more mayhem though because the BC/mounted horses are far too reliable for their own good in a stunty game...
these little suggestions give them a bit more unity/theme and would probably hit the 5% fluff quota alone... there still needs to be some changes though so that they style of play become unique.. you gotta think as though you are a jockey playing blood bowl.. youve got funny clothes a helmet and some boots on... yanno.. work with these fundamental principles to make the unmounted jockey a new and unique creature that possibly does something crazy and thus amusing
there are my ideas use abuse and remake them as you will |
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Dooby
Joined: Nov 22, 2003
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Aug 04, 2004 - 10:06 |
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Kick is very usefell in stunty - especially vs damn fairies who can move the ball really quickly. As a fling or fairy coach I nearly jump with joy when my opponent does a bad kick and I can give the ball to any player. Now putting those two skills together is good becasue they are mutually exlusive - you wont want to lose a player with kick by fouling and you dont really want a high cost dirty player - effects the TR too much. So that position is novel and representents another team strategy i.e. not losing to TTM very often.
I don't think Bull Centaurs would be overpowering at all in stunty. They would make fair ball carriers but anyone worth their salt could stop them with flings alone! or at least delay them until a tree caught up and beat the tar out of him. Where they would excel is in long ranged blitzing against key positional players and the like but again in that respect the team shows a novelty.
Hunter do a definative list of how you see the team stats, costs etc... and i'll do a few games play test with them and post any comments here. |
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Lorion
Joined: Feb 04, 2004
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Aug 04, 2004 - 10:12 |
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| Quote: | | you gotta think as though you are a jockey playing blood bowl.. youve got funny clothes a helmet and some boots on... yanno.. work with these fundamental principles to make the unmounted jockey a new and unique creature that possibly does something crazy and thus amusing |
Yhen we're back at the main problem... If you want a team based on horses, then perhaps call them squires and use knights as big guys. They could somehow be based on bretonian knight training.
Just an idea.... it would, however, chance the core of the team except the fast st4 big guy would be kept. Hunter, you seem to find this essential.
By the way.... I agree with EVO. |
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For in the end either all or nothing is eternal. |
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Dooby
Joined: Nov 22, 2003
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Aug 04, 2004 - 10:21 |
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Evo is indeed a meister of stunty, second only to myself and the mighty Clementus in tactical awareness  no wait... that makes him third! lol
He knows his stuff as can be seen from his proffered teams so his words should not be taken lightly. I wonder what he would make of my suggestion - A team of tree's !!!! Now what I was thinking was extending the game to 148 turns so the big lads could have a chance at scoring. 50 turns to pick up the ball. 90 turns bashing the other team into a pulp and 8 turns to leg it up the pitch!! |
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Lorion
Joined: Feb 04, 2004
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Aug 04, 2004 - 12:13 |
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Based on the basic team of Jockeys... I just added some fluff and hopefuææy a bit of uniquiness to the team.
Knight 0-2 130k 6248 sure feet, thick skull, charge, big guy. GS
Squire 0-12 40k 4326 dodge, stunty, jump up. A
Jouster 0-2 70k 7227 sure feet. A
Trainer 0-2 50k 5327 dodge, whip A
Re-rolls- 60k
Wizard: sure thing
Apoth: Yep
AD Knight): the charge skill is a part of the unique thing about the team. It is like horns and migthy blow in one... but mighty blow also only works on a blitz. So when blitzing the knight effectivly has ST5 and MB.
I have made the knight big guy as he really isn't part of the team as his training is over.
Sprint has been removed and AV reduced by one... perhaps the AV should not have been reduced. Giving him BG seems to balance him enough. The charge skill fits in nicely with the fluff. Am considering giving them stand firm also.
AD Squire): the backbone of the team. AV 6 and jump up, not mucch to except that the name probably should be changed to fit the fluff better. Squires rally shouldn't have stunty... no humans should.
AD Jouster): I have given this some thought and thought that a fast unagile player might ad some to the mayhem factor. Its basically a squire on a horse. He has not lerned charge yet. But has a pony so sure feet. He cant dodge and is no way near stunty while on a pony. Riding gives him -1 AG. Im really not sure about the cost.
AD Trainer): This should have been where the mayhem factor kicked in... but apparently i have been too uncreative. Just gave them a whip (like poisoned dagger) and that was that. Removed the stunty also.
Thats just my suggestion... and yes it still needs work, but i think its better in terms of fluff and uniqueness (is that a word?). Still... the core of the team is pretty much the same.. its based on the knights (before BC's) with ST4 and MA 6. What do you think hunter, its a lot of changes, but it has been made clear that, that is what it takes. Still needs tweaking though.
EVO... any suggestions on perfecting the fluff?
Please comment everyone. |
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For in the end either all or nothing is eternal. |
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hunter
Joined: Aug 11, 2003
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Aug 04, 2004 - 17:23 |
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Thanks for the input, guys. It seems that a problem in the conceptualization of the team has been the lack of detailed fluff. My plan was to develop a balanced and fun team of players first, then create the fluff to make sense out of it all. This may be backwards from how other people would develop a team. That said, it has been obvious that my fluff intentions revolve around Jockeys, so I greatly appreciate your suggestions. I like the medieval theme as well, so I will give that some thought. However, I will apparently have to try and fit the fluff into the Warhammer universe to increase the likelihood of acceptance, so I will have to be creative. I will try to start writing it up later today.
I am glad to see that progress and suggestions are being made. It is clear that I would like to have 2 biggish sort of guys, similar, if not equal to, BC. The Charge skill is an interesting idea- I really like that one. I wouldn't want to reduce the av to 8, though, particularly if they are going to have the Big Guy negatrait. Not sure about stand firm, either. Frenzy would be fun, though, and both mayhem-producing and risky. What do you think about that?
We also need 2 "poison dagger" wielders. Again, I'll worry about what to call them later, but they will carry some sort of poisoned weapon (whip or joust). I want these guys to be mobile and a little tougher. I'd also prefer No Hands. If the majority of the team is stunty, then I won't make these stunty, but if the rest of the team is not stunty, then these guys should be. Is it a prerequisite of a stunty team to have a majority of players with the stunty trait?
I also like the possibility of starting off with a player with Kick. He may or may not have Dirty Player- I don't really care about that one.
Lorion also suggests having a couple of players that are essentially Big Guy wannabes (the jousters). I like the idea, but I think it might be too powerful on a stunty team to have too many players that can move fast, when 2 of those are str4 (I am just remembering how skinks lost the sauri). I'm going to put that one on the back burner for now, but I would like to hear what others think.
The idea of having an unskilled mounted player is interesting, though, and maybe we could give him a weapon? Give him a flail and the stats of a goblin fanatic, with maybe 1 more movement (5) and 1 less str (5)? What do you think about that? It would certainly cause more mayhem, but I want to remain balanced.
Finally, we need to deal with the heart of the team, the jockeys (or whatever they will be called). There have been a few ideas tossed around, but let's establish some basics: they need to be slow (4-5 mv), weak (str 2), relatively agile (ag 3), and crunchy (av 6 or 7). As far as skills and traits are concerned, I think we should plan on the stunty trait, as this is the Stunty Leeg. I am willing to give up dodge for side step, though, as I think that would be an interesting and unique twist to a stunty team. Starting them with Jump Up, as Lorion suggests, might be a good idea as well. It would certainly make them annoying, but I don't see them as overpowered without Dodge (much easier to knock down). What do you all think?
So, here is a synopsis of the possible team roster:
0-2 Big Guys 130000 6 4 2 9 Big Guy, Sure Feet, Thick Skull, Horns, Frenzy G S
0-2 Poisoners 60000 5 2 3 7 Poisoned Dagger, Dodge, Jump Up, Thick Skull, No Hands A
0-1 Kicker 50000 4 2 3 6 Dodge, Jump Up, Kick A
0-2 Gamblers 50000 4 2 3 7 Dodge, Stunty, Pro
0-12 Regulars 40000 4 2 3 7 Side Step, Stunty, Jump Up
Rerolls = 60000
Apoth = Y
Wizard = ? (are stunty teams allowed wizards? I've never tried to hire one.)
Okay, now it is time for more comments and suggestions. Thanks for the offers so far, and keep them coming!
~hunter |
Last edited by hunter on %b %05, %2004 - %06:%Aug; edited 1 time in total |
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hunter
Joined: Aug 11, 2003
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Aug 04, 2004 - 17:25 |
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Oh, almost forgot- Dooby, thanks for your offer to playtest. I'm not sure how you could make the above roster work with the Charge skill, but I would say just give him both horns and MB. MB will be used on regular blocks too in that case, but that's okay for playtesting. Thanks for your help! Oh, and if things aren't working out, feel free to switch stuff around and try other options!
~hunter |
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Stunty Leeg Central - For ALL your Stunty needs! |
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Glomp
Joined: Jan 04, 2004
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Aug 04, 2004 - 19:21 |
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| Wallace wrote: | | You can't present a brick and then ask "can I have some constructive cristism on my new jet fighter?". |
The second funniest quote on the fumbbl 
I forget the first 
I like destruction and if I tried to make a serious post here about that hideous team then i'd be wasting valuble seconds of my life.
Go Go Evo!
Watching people validate their egos with long winded babble is incredibly amusing |
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MixX
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Aug 05, 2004 - 01:10 |
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regarding the Charge skill: I'm pretty sure inventing new skills isn't an option, since SkiJunkie (who programs the client) does not want to do extra work for the Stunty Leeg since it's not in the LRB. So you'd have to settle for Horns, and then write up that it does not infact have horns, but that the skill represents its furious charge (or whatever). |
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MixX
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Aug 05, 2004 - 01:11 |
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oh btw: watching others validate their egos by making fun of other peoples' ideas isn't very funny (no I'm not talking about you Evo). |
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celas
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Aug 05, 2004 - 04:08 |
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I agree with Mixx about changing Charge to Horns. If this idea has any possibility of coming to fruition, then no new skills  . There are a few other changes that I may suggest. First, call the Poisoners "whippersnappers" and have a jockey whip instead of a dagger (that operates like a dagger, but can you feel the fluff?). Also, I am not sure about the ball and chain included on the team. Would be hard to argue from fluff standpoint imho and you have already differentiated the base players enough to set this team apart. As far as fluff for this team goes, perhaps if these jockeys want to play BB, they are doing it for a good reason (i.e., they suck as jockeys). In their attempts to validate themselves as athletes they turned to a different sport and decided to enlist whatever four-legged animals they could train to help them. Normal Bull Centaurs refused to play with them so they had to settle for less talented (hence the Big Guy trait which forbids use of rerolls and makes them less useful) and slower (removal of sprint). WHile these BC's may not be as skillful as their cousins they try really hard once they get going (i.e., on a blitz they have the equivalent of horns). As a final suggestion, if you want a unique player that goes with the team concept, why don't you include some of the types of people that seem to hang around jockeys.....gamblers. These guys always seem a little more lucky than the next guy and this is represented by their attributes 5 2 3 6 Stunty, Dodge, Pro 50K?
Anyway that's all I can think of right now. Keep working on it. |
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hunter
Joined: Aug 11, 2003
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Aug 05, 2004 - 06:21 |
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Thanks for the team input, guys. I agree that a new skill should not be invented, so I'll stick with horns. MB will have to be earned.
Thanks for the fluff suggestions, celas. I will take them into consideration as well. I'm not sure about the ball and chain player, either- the team might be getting too strong and unbalanced. I will take it off for now, but if anyone wants it on, please let me know. The stats could also be changed, of course.
Hmmm... stunty players with pro? Certainly unique, since that's a skill that would almost never be taken on such a player. I think it would be best to keep the base stats similar to the regulars, though, so let's try 0-2 4 2 3 7 Stunty, Dodge, Pro A 50K. I'll put it in the roster above.
I didn't get a chance to work on the fluff today as I was too busy with work, so I will try to get something together tomorrow. In the meantime, suggestions on the newest roster?
Thanks,
~hunter |
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hunter
Joined: Aug 11, 2003
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| Posted:
Aug 05, 2004 - 06:30 |
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Here is the newest synopsis of the possible team roster, so you don't have to find it above. Note that appropriate names are yet to be given; these will be decided on shortly.
0-2 Big Guys 130000 6 4 2 9 Big Guy, Sure Feet, Thick Skull, Horns, Frenzy G S
0-2 Poisoners 60000 5 2 3 7 Poisoned Dagger, Dodge, Jump Up, Thick Skull, No Hands A
0-1 Kicker 50000 4 2 3 6 Dodge, Jump Up, Kick A
0-2 Gamblers 50000 4 2 3 7 Dodge, Stunty, Pro A
0-12 Regulars 40000 4 2 3 7 Side Step, Stunty, Jump Up A
Rerolls = 60000
Apoth = Y
Wizard = ? (are stunty teams allowed wizards? I've never tried to hire one.) |
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