_Sayian_
Joined: Nov 05, 2003
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  Posted:
Aug 04, 2004 - 19:50 |
 
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Here is something I coocked up in the afternoon =). NOW RAVAGE MY IDE!! and if not hacking the suggestion to pices maybe some constructive critisism and other idees can be given?
Inspired from: The movie Critters.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0090887/
Concept: Chaos is a vast area where many odd and scary creatures live and so do the blood thirsty critters. Small and intelligent little feeding frenzy fur balls they ravage what ever they can find and (usaly eat it). Though not as scary as their distant relatives the squigs they can still take a good bite of you, or at least the full grown can. Thus stunty coches have found a new deathrilling team they can use to wreck more havoc in stunty league!
1 – 12 Critter
Ma 6, St 1, Ag 3, Av 6
Dodge, Stunty, Right stuff, Thrall
AG and G skill
Cost: 30000
Info: Though they still are small and lack the bloodthirst that adulthood brings they still can make a difference on the field. Not to say they are also subjected by the sometimes overhungry adult critters known as big furrys.
http://www.toyarchive.com/MovieProps/CritterPuppet1.html
1 - 4 Big Furrys
Ma 4, St 3, Ag 1, Av 7
Off for a bite, Frenzy
ST skill
Cost: 70000
Info: They are big, mean, bloodthirsty, eat their young and.... yeah that is pretty much it!
http://www.moviemaniacs.net/images/workshop/bmovie1/critters1.jpg
1 - Critter Ball
Ma 5, St 5, Ag 1, Av 7
No hands, Frenzy, Secret weapon
Cost: 100000
Info: The ball is really many critters formed into one big eating ball. Thus if a ref spots them they will be banned because of the numbers.
A critter ball can never learn new skills.
(I have yet to find a good picture of the ball from the movies, but I know there are some pictures out there)
Apoth: yes
Reroll: 60000
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Glomp
Joined: Jan 04, 2004
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Aug 04, 2004 - 19:57 |
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I like the idea. Main problem is theyre a bit too close to normal squig teams.
Well flings are quite like chaos flings so up the coast and give em all mutations access.
Oh and a penalty roll on the big guy would suck give him a conventional negatrait instead (no skills is no fun too)
Apart from that I like it, hurry up, iron out some of the rules/cost issues and make 'em official  |
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Cantila
Joined: Mar 02, 2004
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Aug 04, 2004 - 20:02 |
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I think 100k for a critter ball is pretty steep compared to a Troll who cost the same, has 2 more av for one less movement and can learn skills (which is worth a lot). Also he doesn't risk to get banned for secret weapon. |
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Kanzo
Joined: Apr 06, 2004
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Aug 04, 2004 - 22:02 |
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Maybe Big Furry and Critter Ball should have Razor Sharp Fangs ( in the films they are cannibals  ) |
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Ploopy
Joined: Feb 28, 2004
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Aug 04, 2004 - 22:16 |
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Giving "linemen" in stunty acces to General skills seems a bit too hard, ´cause they can take block and tackle |
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Glomp
Joined: Jan 04, 2004
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Aug 04, 2004 - 22:35 |
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but the linemen get eaten... balances out i'd say |
Last edited by Glomp on %b %05, %2004 - %00:%Aug; edited 1 time in total |
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Tizai
Joined: Jul 14, 2004
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Aug 04, 2004 - 23:48 |
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Why not increase the mayhem and give the Critters frenzy also? Stacks of ST1 frenzies going on all over the place. Could be as dangerous to the Krites as it is to the other team 
Also I'd suggest giving the Critter Ball either Thick Skull/Regenerate (knock a few off there's still about a thousand to keep on rolling), Stand Firm, or put the AV to 9 or even 10. The thing is virtually unstoppable and since there's a good chance it'll be out at the next kickoff (and leave the team without a 'big guy'), having any of these probably won't be beneficial for too long anyway (but make it more useful while it's on the field). They would also offset the 100k price tag (or make it more expensive).
Making it a Wild Animal (it would want to eat before anything else) could fit the fluff if TS/Regen, SF or AV10 are too much.
I agree that not allowing it to gain skills is pretty harsh. It at least deserves Break Tackle or Multiple Block
It's not a movie shot, but this is the only pic I could find while I typed this.
Of course, I've never even seen a Stunty Leeg game so I wouldn't really know how much all this would unbalance the Critter team. Love the idea though. I always had a soft spot for the furry little... ah... critters  |
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_Sayian_
Joined: Nov 05, 2003
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Aug 05, 2004 - 00:48 |
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The following suggestions for the Critter team has been made!
1 – 12 Critter
Ma 6, St 1, Ag 3, Av 6
Dodge, Stunty, Right stuff, Thrall
AG and G skill
Cost: 30000
Info: Though they still are small and lack the bloodthirst that adulthood brings they still can make a difference on the field. Not to say they are also subjected by the sometimes overhungry adult critters known as big furrys.
http://www.toyarchive.com/MovieProps/CritterPuppet1.html
Suggestion by inquisitorpustus: Give the Critter mutations
Suggestion by Ploopy: Remove General skill chocie (But may still be balanced out by the fact that they have thrall acording to inquisitorpustus)
My respons: I think it would do them good to have both imo. They are by messure not as good as haflings and have thrall and still cost as much. I think inquisitorpustus suggestion make the team more balanced and not to bad. Thanks for the input from both you guys!
And on the mutation front suggestion by inquisitorpustus. I don't know but it would make the team more intressting to have mutation acsess and it would make more sense since they are a form of chaos spawn. I don't know how to balance it out though. But for the time beeing I think the suggestion is a good one and it makes sence.
1 - 4 Big Furrys
Ma 4, St 3, Ag 1, Av 7
Off for a bite, Frenzy
ST skill
Cost: 70000
Info: They are big, mean, bloodthirsty, eat their young and.... yeah that is pretty much it!
http://www.moviemaniacs.net/images/workshop/bmovie1/critters1.jpg
1 - Critter Ball
Ma 5, St 5, Ag 1, Av 7
No hands, Frenzy, Secret weapon
Cost: 100000
Info: The ball is really many critters formed into one big eating ball. Thus if a ref spots them they will be banned because of the numbers.
A critter ball can never learn new skills.
http://www.barrycorbin.net/captures/critters2/critters2_cover.jpg (link and pic found by Tizai)
Suggestions by Tizai: Have the big furrys and the critter ball have razor sharp claws. Give the critters frenzy.
My respons: There is a suggestion made by Jerrvis (creator of blood bowl) that you rather not give rsc to bigguys or other members of team in the begining. I think he have a point, it would make them to good. I can clearly se the fluff though since they have it in the movies. But I dont want to make a complet rippoff of the movies.
And about giving the critters frenzy, it would probably be best if the dont have it. It would make the team impossible to controll. But as on the former subject I can clearly see the fluff in it. Thanks for the suggestion Tizai.
Suggestion by: Almost all =)
The Critter ball may or may not be a secret weapon. I have constructed a couple of alternatives by your suggestion at how the critter ball could look like.
1 - Critter Ball
Ma 5, St 5, Ag 1, Av 9 (10?) (note that av is higher)
No hands, Frenzy, Secret weapon, Thick skull
Cost: 100000
Info: The ball is really many critters formed into one big eating ball. Thus if a ref spots them they will be banned because of the numbers.
A critter ball can never learn new skills.
http://www.barrycorbin.net/captures/critters2/critters2_cover.jpg (link and pic found by Tizai)
1 - Critter Ball
Ma 5, St 5, Ag 1, Av 7
No hands, Frenzy, Thick Skull, Big guy, Wild Animal (Note: Thick skull added and secret wepon gone, Big guy and wild animal added)
Cost: 100000
Info: The ball is really many critters formed into one big eating ball.
ST Skill choice (Note: May chose skill)
http://www.barrycorbin.net/captures/critters2/critters2_cover.jpg (link and pic found by Tizai)
1 - Critter Ball
Ma 5, St 5, Ag 1, Av 7
No hands, Frenzy, Secret weapon, Stand firm, Tick Skull, Multiple Block, Break Tackle (Note: a lot of skills added)
Cost: 110000 (note: Cost raised a little since it is rather good still for a secret weapon)
Info: The ball is really many critters formed into one big eating ball. Thus if a ref spots them they will be banned because of the numbers.
A critter ball can never learn new skills.
http://www.barrycorbin.net/captures/critters2/critters2_cover.jpg (link and pic found by Tizai)
So these are some alterative to the critter ball. What do you think? |
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Tizai
Joined: Jul 14, 2004
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Aug 05, 2004 - 18:57 |
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I really like the idea of making the Giant Ball a secret weapon, since it's a bit illegal (did I read somewhere that secret weapons may soon automatically be thrown out at a kickoff/halftime?). I don't think I suggested giving any of them RSC. Giving the Critters frenzy would make it hard to control I guess, but that would just add to the fun Point taken though.
My choice would be the 3rd one. The idea of not learning skills is growing on me, but to restrict it so much you'd have to give it some useful skills to start with. I still think that AV 7 is a little low, I'd expect a giant ball to be a bit tougher than a Skaven gutter runner. Then again, if you hit it hard enough it could just fall to pieces... It would be an easy target at AV 7 though. Up the 3rd option to 130k, give it AV 10 and there's your giant ball. At least then it's more likely to last until it gets thrown out and not get injured in the first few turns.
Alternatively, keep it at 110k and add Wild Animal and/or Big Guy.
I'm not sure of the importance of Right Stuff on the Critters though, who's going to throw them? |
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Why are toasters created with a setting that burns the bread to a crisp no sane person could eat? |
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hunter
Joined: Aug 11, 2003
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Aug 05, 2004 - 20:20 |
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Hmmm.... this is an interesting concept, particularly the critter ball. I will offer some criticism and suggestions.
First of all, I actually probably wouldn't play with this team, but that's because I find OFAB too frustrating.  But, if it has sufficient fun/mayhem value, plus a chance of winning some matches, I'll try anything once!
Critters: Quite weak but with access to both A and G skills, plus they are thralls. I am concerned, as Ploopy also mentioned, that these little guys have access to G skills. After the first skill roll, you essentially have a str1 blodger, and after 2 skill rolls a blodger with tackle. They are crunchy, certainly, and some will get injured due to OFAB, but I still think that G access is too strong for the majority of players on a stunty team to have access. I think I would keep the stats as they are, only allow A access, and reduce the cost to 20K. You might also need to consider reducing MV to 5, if they are only 20K.
Big Furries: I like these guys as they are, but add access to G skills. These guys will be your primary blockers/blitzers, so they will need to have some decent skills. MAYBE increase the ag to 2, but I'm not sure about that one. They are easy to tie up with ag1, would have a better chance of successfully blitzing if ag2. These guys won't last long with av7, so you will have to expect to replace them relatively often.
Critter Ball: I like the idea of making it "secret weapon" status, and I would make the roll a 10+ (you could make up some fluff something along the lines of the ref doesn't eject critter balls too often for fear of getting swarmed and eaten). I like option #1 the best, with av9, but I think you would need to give access to at least general skills. You can think of it as the critters learning to work together over time (assuming the same critters make up the ball each time, that is). I would also give it Big Guy status, meaning no rerolls, and I'd be tempted to give OFAB as well. I guess I am thinking of this thing as a large, uncontrollable mass of bloodthirsty critters, and OFAB seems to fit.
That's my 2 cents for now. Keep working on it! Oh, and just so you're aware: you might get some criticism that the team concept does not originate from the Warhammer universe, so you might want to build some fluff from the Chaos point of view, which you mentioned in your original post.
~hunter |
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milnestar
Joined: Oct 23, 2003
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 Posted:
Aug 05, 2004 - 21:30 |
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Hey I've never seen such positive feedback to a new team idea. And you deserve it. An original idea and fun at the same time. I do like the thought of the frenzy on the little guys, but agree would be unplayable.
Can't wait to try them out. Someone get designing the icons..... QUICK |
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stargzrrag
Joined: Jun 10, 2004
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Aug 05, 2004 - 22:06 |
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Looks like a cool idea.
General skills would be HUGE for the "lineman". As far as fluff goes how would the young Critters have access to General skills and then grow up to be Big Furries and lose access to it?
I agree that the Critter ball should have access to General skills especially if you are going to make it a big guy( so it at least has a chance of pro). Most stunty teams have more than one big guy don't they, maybe increase limit to two?
Something like:
2-Critter Ball
Ma 5, St 5, Ag 1, Av 7
No hands, Frenzy, Thick Skull, Big guy, Secret Weapon(10).
Cost: 100000
Info: The ball is really many critters formed into one big eating ball.
G ST Skill choice |
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Wallace
Joined: May 26, 2004
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Aug 06, 2004 - 00:51 |
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I think the secret weapon on the ball is pretty harsh, but a nice twist. To balance it out what about jump up as well? I know jump up on a big guy is pretty overpowered but with the penalty roll it might be even. It makes sense to get this skill as even if the ball is 'knocked down' surely the hit wouldn't effect all the critters in the ball and there would be some others still standing to carry on. The others will soon catch up...
Edit: Oh and I think g access dosn't fit the fluff either, it requirse too much co-ordinating from all the little critters! So maybe add jump-up and take away g access? If the little critters have g, maybe the big-gut dosn't need it? It's the opposite of a normal stunty team, so would make these guys pretty unique? |
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_Sayian_
Joined: Nov 05, 2003
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Aug 06, 2004 - 15:52 |
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Hello all!
I have read all of your post and they have many good and intressting thoughts to it. I have begun to form out the final details based on your suggestions for the team. I must say that when I started to write down this little team I diden't suspect that they would get such a warm welcome. It has inspired me to press it forward and In shortly I will begin to extend the concept of the team to make it more fluff in the warhammer world. If any of you want to write up a story about them or give suggestions for a concept of chaos you are welcomed. All idees and suggestions will of course have your name on it. Even if I thought of the concept (well, the original idee was from the movie so I can't really take credit for it) I am far from the only one to have made this team to what it is now.
Now on to the final details then =).
1 – 12 Critter
Ma 5, St 1, Ag 3, Av 6
Dodge, Stunty, Right stuff, Thrall
Skills: AG
Mutations: Yes
Cost: 30000
http://www.toyarchive.com/MovieProps/CritterPuppet1.html
Changes: As many of you have said, general skill choice is a huge thing for a lineman in stunty. I think I agree with you. I can see it will make them really good despite having the thrall trait. Still they cost 30000, but with mutations, I think that they are balanced out rather well with other teams for that price. I also change their Ma to 5 so not being to quick or slow, im still rather uncertien about this, but if the team gets really serius and have a chance at appering in future Fumbbl then I will suggest having a vote about it.
1 - 4 Big Furrys
Ma 4, St 3, Ag 1, Av 7
Off for a bite, Frenzy
ST and G skill
Mutations: Yes
Cost: 60000
Info: They are big, mean, bloodthirsty, eat their young and.... yeah that is pretty much it!
http://www.moviemaniacs.net/images/workshop/bmovie1/critters1.jpg
Changes: Well, none really, it seems like most of you like the Big Furrys like they are. I thought for a long time to give them 2 in Ag based on some suggerstions, but being in stunty I finaly decided that I would go with 1, but if this team should get welcomed by Skijunkie, Christer and the rest, im opend for the suggestion to vote about it. Oh, and I have now looked closer to Jerrvis calculating systems of new teams and it seems if Im not misstaken that the Big Furrys will become a little cheaper then the original price (60000 acording to his system). Though I have change the price tag of the big furrys im still intressted to hear if you think the prince should be 60000 or 70000? Since this is Fumbbl and not real BB (and Jerrvis system is for the curent BB rules) I want to hear your reflections on it first.
1 - Critter Ball
Ma 5, St 5, Ag 1, Av 8
No hands, Frenzy, Big Guy, Mighty Blow, Secret weapon (10+), Multiple Block, Break Tackle
Cost: 110000
Info: The ball is really many critters formed into one big eating ball. Thus if a ref spots them they will be banned because of the numbers.
Mutations: No
Skill: St and G
http://www.barrycorbin.net/captures/critters2/critters2_cover.jpg (found by Tizai)
Changes: Ah, the Critter Ball. This has clearly been the most challenging task to form a uniq and blanced Big Guy. It has recived many good suggestions by you and have been (I think) the most intressting thing about the team. As you see there where many diffrent thoughts about the critter ball and to say at least it was really hard to make it, but here is the suggestion I have for you.
As you see the secret weapon status is still there. Making it secret weapon for the fluff and for the balance it with the skills it have. Many thought that making it secret weapon was very harsh so with it comes my suggestion to it's skills and values. The main thing is that I have now taken away thick skull and replaced it with an AV of 8 since many thought a raging ball of critter should have a higher fortitude and because most seem to think the first choice in my previus post was the right one, but still needed some modifications.
I have added the first choice skills like break tackle and multiple block to make it worth buying since the secret weapon rule still is there. They have obviusly no acsess to mutations since it would be totaly out of fluff for it's concept of having multiple critters roling around, even if the one critter can get mutations. However... This makes it a little better then ordinary Big guy, but then again with "no hands" and "secret wapon" it evens out rather well. I also change the skill choice so the critters in that makes the ball can learn new skills (like you said, they can actually work together) and thus making them fun to play and not to crappy. And now for the really hard choice. As stargzrrag suggested many stunty teams have two Big Guys or more. I have not yet decided if the Critters should have acsess to 2 Critter Balls? Therefor I turn to the many good people of this forum to debate it futher. You have brought a great many thoughts and suggestions to the team. How do you think it would affect the balance now with the new skills and all?
Apoth: Yes
Wizard: No
Reroll: 60000
The team is still opend for changes and new idees! What do you think of this?
Again Thank you for the many suggestions you people have made to the team. They are infact your team also now should it come to it that they have a chance at being introduced into stunty! Who Knows =)
Special Thanks!
inquisitorpustus
Tizai
hunter
stargzrrag
Wallace
Ploopy
Kanzo
Cantila
For all your suggestions and idees! They have been greatly appriciated and have formed the team!
And a big thanks to everybody else that posted and and gave me such a good feedback!
Thanks again! |
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_Sayian_
Joined: Nov 05, 2003
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| Posted:
Aug 06, 2004 - 18:33 |
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Hello to you all!
First I like to thank you again for supporting the development of the critter team! The people at the forum have been a great help! Thank you! And now on to the action! =)
Ok, the Critter team has been made with numbers and skills (though may change), but now comes the hard part =). The concept making, but before actually making the concept of the Critter team wider we must first line up references for it to exist. In this post I will make a try to explain how I see on the subject.
As usually any person with extensive (or no =) knowledge of the Warhammer world may say his/her point about this. All ideas and suggestions are welcomed.
Reference:
The world of Warhammer has many creatures and mutations of chaos. Though some may think that such a thing as a critter does not exist here they may be wrong. Let me explain.
In reference with the world of chaos in Warhammer such a thing as critters aren’t impossible to exist. In fact they have actually been described in the warhammer world believe it or not, but not under the specific name Critters, just as things. Books that expand the Warhammer world have reference to unknown things in chaos that have a similar description to what the critter look like. Often those things are referred to as things with lot of fur/scales and have big mouths with a lot of teethe. So there are actually references in the books which depict the looks of a critter, but don’t name it by the name critter.
Now don’t get so hung up on the name critters, it is just the original concept of a classic 80s horror flick =). Critters in the warhammer world do exist, but you have to have a little fantasy (which warhammer players often have plenty of =) and creativity. This is the main reason I have thought up the concept of critters.
In other things, we could look at this from some other stunty team’s perspective. Take the vamplings for example. Though there are Vampires in the warhammer world there are no vamplings. Though one could defend this quite easily by saying that a vampire could sire a child or something like that and call it a vampling. Though it does not be mentioned in the warhammer world it is still a possibility, thus Vamplings exists in fumbbls stunty league.
Pygmy is a good example too. Lustrias jungle is full of unknown things and such things as pygmy are not impossible to think of, right? Though there is no pygmy in the Warhammer world they still exist because of the possibility that they exists.
The idees for these teams are fun and exciting and I think they make a good part of the stuntyL.
(Remember though I have a lot of experience of Warhammer and the world of Warhammer my knowledge is not absolute. If I am wrong about things please correct me.)
I think that if you look at some of these options the thought of a critter team is not far fetched? If you like to name them differently or use some other image for them, then ok. The important part is that something like critters has a reference in the Warhammer world.
Concept of suggestions:
This is meant to suggest some short concept outlines for a critter team. A sentence is enough for now and if it is a good idée then one can evolve the concept. Here are some of my thoughts.
Critters are simply that, critters from the depths of chaos, a race of it’s own.
Critters are mutated beings from races like squigs or other things.
Critters are distant relatives of squigs
Critters have always existed in the world, but only recently begun to show themselves, possibly because of the chaos influence of the world?
Critters fell from the stars (as they actually do in the movies =)
There are surely many different stories that can explain a critters existence in Warhammer. You just have to have a little imagination and creativity. =)
(Right now I am at the beginning of play testing the team with a Warhammer BB board using fumbbl rules, and if you feel up to it are welcomed to make play testing also. The more play testing the more accurate the team can be. Note though that the rating and values and skills of the Critter team are not absolutely set yet so some changes may happen, especially about the Critter Ball.
Thank you all! |
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