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DukeTyrion



Joined: Feb 18, 2004

Post   Posted: Aug 06, 2004 - 16:49 Reply with quote Back to top

I kinda dislike Skaven, and therefore like to play against them (don't ask freudian or some such mayeb).

I notice there are none in Stunty, and with so many here seemingly more knowledgable then I, maybe between us we could build one to put forward.

The fluff is obvious, in the stink ridden world that is Warhammer, there is enough death and decay for your average rat to have a nice stinky life.

Now for the hard bit, team lineup. Here are a few positionals to maybe argue over or completely replace;

0-1 130k Rat Ogre 6 5 3 8 M B, Frenzy, Prehensile Tail, B G, Wild Animal
0-4 50k Ratz 8 1 3 5 Dodge, Stunty, Catch
0-12 40k Skavengers 7 2 3 6 Dodge, Stunty
0-2 70k Pests 7 2 3 6 Dodge, Stunty, Poison Dagger (10+)

Rerolls maybe 60k, access to mutations.

This is not finished, or even tested, this is hopefully more of a workshop topic to open up a discussion on maybe getting some Skaven alikes into Stunty.

Also, I am kinda looking for help, so please don't comment that I have not put much thought into it, that I know.

Any comments, criticism, ideas or even positive berating will be welcome.

Cheers
Glomp



Joined: Jan 04, 2004

Post   Posted: Aug 06, 2004 - 17:02 Reply with quote Back to top

I like the idea (always assumed fairies were the skavenish team). Since its stunty though you might want to increase the rat ogre allowance to 0-2.

The only other problem I have is that poison dagger has been done to death (fairly appropriate for skaven - eschin assasins etc), I'd like to see less used secret weapons.

I know its difficult to implament new rules into the client, but i do seem to remember old rules for poisoned throwing stars. I think you threw them like a normal pass, on a (1) you pricked your finged and knocked yourself out, on a successfull hit it ko'd the target (or whatever the star scatters into).

Something like that would add more flavour I reackon and prevent against more generic looking stunty teams

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Goodnametaken



Joined: Jul 24, 2004

Post   Posted: Aug 06, 2004 - 17:53 Reply with quote Back to top

Very Very interesting idea, I like the concept of it a lot.

From a balance stand point however, the team I believe at this stage is way too powerful for stunty leeg. I don't have much time to write this, but a quick example would be your scavengers, which start with 2 str (equal to the best for stunty linemen), and have the highest move of stunty linemen right out. Normally low strength really taxes a character's effectiveness, but in a league where most of the opposition has 2 or less of it, movement becomes exceedingly important. A team with that many characters of move 7 or more (and all agility 3) could very possibly be nigh unbeatable in the hands of any decent coach.

Note, this is all conjecture, I could be wrong, (most likely am), but it's just that i'm excited about the team concept and would be sad if it was labeled unexecutable by the admins if it was shown to them in too powerful a form.

A few quick suggestions. 1) keep the move of the linemen where it is but lower the strength to 1 to prevent super stunties. 2) lower the move of the linemen (cept the rat ogre of course) and keep the same strength, and either take away stunty or an agility. 3) consider somehow adding access to physical traits-- one of the cooler aspects of skavenhood all together.
celas



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Aug 06, 2004 - 18:08 Reply with quote Back to top

I would love for there to be a team of mini-skavens so hopefully we can work toward this goal. One potential thing you may need to change is the mini-Ratz. At the moment, they have two agility skills, which means they could not have 7 more skills unless they rolled doubles which I believe is not allowed (someone doublecheck my math on this, I am at work and not close to my LRB). Instead of catch, perhaps you could give them one less MV, but add VLL and Extra arms to display this players ability to catch the ball (or just subtract catch and add extra arms, but I suggest the -MV and +VLL to give extra shot at INTs).

THe base player seems to be a combo of a skink and goblin which some may argue is not different enough, but I think it fits with the concept of mini skaven. You may want to consider the above suggestion of reducing the base players MV by one. Not sure if I would decrease str of base players though (maybe for poisoners?).

Please add in the SKill Access too at some point (I assume ROs get G,S,PH, and others get A,Ph). Keep working Razz

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DukeTyrion



Joined: Feb 18, 2004

Post   Posted: Aug 06, 2004 - 21:25 Reply with quote Back to top

I put one big guy in the setup in an initial attempt to combat the team movement.

Skinks have move 8 and no Big Guys, so 7 (1 more then Goblins) with 1 Big Guy might kinda balance it.

Love the throwing star idea, but as you say might take some programming.

Also, the 0-4 50k Ratz 7 1 3 5 Dodge, Stunty, Very Long legs sounds interesting.

Skill lines sounds good, never had a team with access to PH myself. (except a short and very bad experiment with a chaos team)
Topper



Joined: Aug 03, 2003

Post   Posted: Aug 06, 2004 - 22:47 Reply with quote Back to top

I believe that if u keep the 2 assasins only one Ratogre is keeping it in balance.
However mayby they´re too powerful in the little league, due to the low av of opponents??
But it looks good
Molt



Joined: Aug 04, 2003

Post   Posted: Sep 06, 2004 - 18:49 Reply with quote Back to top

Great idea, LordTyrion to introduce a skaven team, and I like many of the ideas, however all that talk of Rats got me thinking...

One of the 4 greater Skaven clans is Clan Moulder, wouldn't that make an interesting team more consistant with the Warhammer world? Heres my proposal:

130k 0-2 Rat Ogres
50k 0-2 Pack Masters 7 2 3 7 none
50k 0-12 Giant Rats 6 3 3 6 Dodge, Stunty, Razor Sharp Fangs, Wild Animal, Really Stupid, No Hands

Although this team seems powerful at first glance with most of the players being strength 3+, it will suffers major problems there are only 2 players on the whole team who can go without rolling a wild animal roll, and the giant rats only have a 1/4 chance of being able to do anything other than block without a Rat Ogre or Pack Master to encourage them. Also note that since the giant rats have no hands they cannot pick up the ball, making it difficult to win games if the packmasters are removed. I have given them razor sharp claws since injuries would be the only way they can gain star player points.

This team would offer something different to all the other teams out there and a significant challenge to play both with and against.


Last edited by Molt on Sep 07, 2004 - 17:23; edited 1 time in total
Molt



Joined: Aug 04, 2003

Post   Posted: Sep 07, 2004 - 17:08 Reply with quote Back to top

Me again -did some thinking on the way to work and realised with reflection RSF is too deadly to give starting players in stunty leeg. Instead I think Giant rats should be given Ag 4

Giant rats now become formidable blitzers/cage breakers (on the 70% of occasions they actually succeed both their roles). Of course since their abilities extend only to mauling people, taking out the ball carrier wouldn't actually win you possession - a Packmaster or Rat Ogre would also have to get there to pick up the ball.

I'm really pleased with the Really Stupid skill, reflecting as much the rats cowardice as their intelligence. Individually they are hesitant to attack - if knocked prone they may well stay prone (cowering). As a pack they are overwhelming, yet they lack motivation if not driven forwards by the barbed whips and stinging lashes of the Packmasters. Defense would be the biggest challenge for this team since it could not easily move rats (42% chance without using team rr) to put tackles zones on threatening players.
-----
Talking of Rerolls, they should be 70k, to represent the difficulty of training wild, savage, mutant beasts to play bloodbowl!
-----
Skills should be as follows:

Rat Ogres - G, St, Ph (ie normal Rat Ogres)
Packmasters - G, Ph (they are normal skaven linesman, just with str 2)
Giant Rats - Ag, St, Ph (see below)

I have given the rats Ag and St because with no hands there are only 5 usable Agility skills the rats could use without a double. Strength skills add 4 more: Multiple Block, Guard, Mighty Blow and Piling on. The strength skills seemed more appropriate than some of the general skills (eg kick), plus giving the whole team access to block would be overly powerful in stunty. I thought about but did not make the rats 60k due to the risk of making the team unsustainable, so gave them av5 instead. Av 5 helps to balance the cas-causing strength skills by making it less likely the rats will survive long enough to accumulate too many of them!


----------------------------------------
CLAN MOULDER ROSTER MKII

130k 0-2 Rat Ogres 6 5 3 8 - Wild Animal, Big Guy, MB, Frenzy, Prehensile Tail
50k 0-2 Packmasters 7 2 3 7 - none
50k 0-12 Giant Rats 6 3 4 5 - Wild Animal, Really Stupid, Dodge, Stunty, No Hands

Apocathary: 50k Rerolls: 70k
----------------------------------------

Feedback? What do people think of this proposal?


Last edited by Molt on Sep 07, 2004 - 17:30; edited 1 time in total
freak_in_a_frock



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Sep 07, 2004 - 17:29 Reply with quote Back to top

1/ you can't be stunty and str 3.
2/ Rat ogres would end up being the ball carriers, and with 2 of them, harsh
3/ 12 player with rsc, and 2 with mightblow to begin with, that is just plain silly
4/ you can field an entire team of str 3 and above, this is meant to be stunty
5/ fluff wise why would packmasters have less strength than a normal skaven?

my conclussion is that this team would destroy any team it came up against, and god knows how good it will be when all the rats get mighty blow, and a few get block

Sorry if all this sounds harsh, but there is not a nice way of saying it
Molt



Joined: Aug 04, 2003

Post   Posted: Sep 07, 2004 - 17:43 Reply with quote Back to top

1/ there is nothing in the rulebook that says you can't be str 3 and stunty (it did long ago before traits were introduced and you could give it to gutter runners - ahh those were the days!)

2/ thats true, but they would have to pass a WA role to move up the pitch. Other teams have big guys and secret weapons that can remove them - they are not invulnerable

3/ i got rid of RSF - look at ROSTER MKII

4/ Is that the definition of stunty? I thought it was more about having fun teams with crazy secret weapons, lots of big guys etc. Yes they are str3, but with a BIG catch If you did field a team of just Str 3 (ie without Packmasters) you would probably get beaten since the rats could only hit back about half of the time.

5/ Ok you got me there - I just felt the packmasters would not be vulnerable enough (in Warhammer they actually have str 4!). They are supposed to be the weakness point of the team - remove them and suddenly scoring/stopping touchdowns isn't easy.

Str skills for rats is perhaps a bad idea - maybe they should just have to take useless skills - i can't see many lasting that long anyway Smile I'll make that change for MKIII

Not harsh at all - i just happen to disagree Wink I look forward to your (or anyboy else's) response!


Last edited by Molt on Sep 07, 2004 - 17:56; edited 1 time in total
Zy-Nox



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Sep 07, 2004 - 17:54 Reply with quote Back to top

*yawn*

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Zy-Nox



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Sep 07, 2004 - 17:56 Reply with quote Back to top

go read evo's thread... its the roster i like and one i want to implement
go read it..... its good it has fluff =]

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Molt



Joined: Aug 04, 2003

Post   Posted: Sep 21, 2004 - 03:44 Reply with quote Back to top

No fluff? - i'll give you fluff!

To the North, in the blasted wastelands known as the Troll country, lie the infernal breeding pits of Clan Moulder. Their stronghold is burrowed into the walls and floor of a ragged chasm in a snowy mountainside in the Northern spur of the world's edge mountains. Volcanic pools at the bottom of the chasm raise a greyish mixture of sulphur with the stench of matted fur and excrement carried on the wind. Worse than the stench is the dreadful cacophony of howls, squawks, snarls and shrieks which clamour out of the frozen chasm like the wailing lost souls of a thousand races. Not without reason is this place known as Hell Pit. Lord verminkin, Packlord of Clan Moulder, rules Hell Pit. He is feared not only as the mightiest of the Council of Thirteen, but also because he commands the huge wealth of Clan Moulder - won through selling their vile creations to whoever can afford the price.

It was the ever increasing demand for trained Rat Ogres fit for bloodbowl that first turned Lord Verminkin's cruel eye upon the sport. He attended a match and was immediately hooked; revelling in the senseless violence his own bloodthirsty roar was soon added to that of the massed crowds.

So much sadistic pleasure did the sport bring him that upon his return to Hell Pit he ordered his very own packmasters and war beasts to represent Clan Moulder in the Bloodbowl arena. In the first match the packmasters proudly unleashed horrible mutitated wyverns and manticores and several rat ogres upon their unsuspecting opponents. The beasts butchered them in mere seconds, before moving onto the crowds who were slain in their hundreds. Lord Verminkin was most pleased with the result - until he received a lifetime ban from what was left of the NAF after the slaughter.

Lord verminkin raged around hell pit for days, taking out his anger upon whoever crossed his path. Bloodbowl became a black word - to even mention its name would mean death or worse. Yet all the frenzied excitement of the weeks before had had too great an effect upon the collective imagination of Clan Moulder, and several lesser packlords disobeyed their master and fled Hell Pit along with their more modest retinues, seeking glory, bloodshed, fame and wealth within the pint-sized arenas of the Stunty Leeg.


Last edited by Molt on Sep 21, 2004 - 04:25; edited 7 times in total
Molt



Joined: Aug 04, 2003

Post   Posted: Sep 21, 2004 - 04:11 Reply with quote Back to top

Rat Ogre - G, St, Ph (ie normal Rat Ogres)
Packmasters - G, Ph (they are normal skaven linesman)
Giant Rats - Ag, Ph (no str skill acces like in MKII)

----------------------------------------
CLAN MOULDER ROSTER MKIII

130k 0-1 Rat Ogres 6 5 3 8 - Wild Animal, Big Guy, MB, Frenzy, Prehensile Tail
50k 0-2 Packmasters 7 2 3 7 - none
40k 0-12 Giant Rats 5 1 3 5 - Wild Animal, Really Stupid, Guard, Dodge, Stunty, No Hands

Apocathary: 50k Rerolls: 60k
----------------------------------------

Changes:
1. Now only 0-1 rat ogre
2. Rerolls 60k - 10k cheaper
3. Reduced ST of Giant Rats to 1, but gave them the guard skill so they must stick together as a pack or become too vulnerable. All the players having guard is not over powered because any who fail their Really Stupid roll lose their tacklezone until their next turn.
4. Gave Giant Rats AG 3 and MV 5
5. Made rats worth 40k
Wombats



Joined: Oct 31, 2003

Post   Posted: Sep 21, 2004 - 05:39 Reply with quote Back to top

I really loved the Skavenslaves idea which I believe Zy Nox is referring to...

but differentiate Clan Moulder from Skavenslaves and make them contribute something new and you're in with a shot, maybe.

More Rat Ogres...anything else apart from Giant Rats that is fluffy for Clan Moulder?

They need more ball handlers as with Wild Animal and No Hands the team will be crippled.

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