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BeefyGoodness



Joined: Nov 25, 2003

Post   Posted: Aug 08, 2004 - 07:09 Reply with quote Back to top

Hi peoples, just letting you know of a cool experimental new 4 on 4 bloodbowl format. Its listed under the zeke league in the groups page.
The idea is to have and offensive team consisting of 4 players and a defensive team constisting of 4 players with 3 players alloted as substitutes. Max team roster being 11. Offensive players are set up when receiving the kick-off and defensive vice-versa. Offensive players are not allowed to be set up on the defensice side also vice-versa.
Substitutes are allowed to bring the player number up to 4 on the defensive of offensive teams but only if they cannot set up their alloted 4 defensive/offensive players.
Pretty straight forward eh? It's much better in my opinion that straight 4 on 4 matches because it doesn't turn into sheer stupidity after 1 or 2 cas/knockouts.

Currently there are a few points of contention as to changing player positions. Whether they are permanent positions or allowing changes after games and before games. Currently players are allowed to change player positions whenever they like between games, but this thread is here to allow people to voice their opinions on the matter.
Oh and also any other rules queries that come up. Smile cya on the pitch.
BeefyG.
BeefyGoodness



Joined: Nov 25, 2003

Post   Posted: Aug 08, 2004 - 07:11 Reply with quote Back to top

Oh and name needs to be changed from snorri league to something else.
I propose BLOODIRON. As it is much closer to gridiron.
Snorri



Joined: Jun 07, 2004

Post   Posted: Aug 08, 2004 - 08:05 Reply with quote Back to top

When to choose offence/defence is a good point. Obviously can't change in game as you can't practically change the pics and we need a solution that works with the game.

Allowing changes after challenging and before game is a good idea, but I dont know if it can be enforced other than by an 'honourable' agreement between players to not look at each other's roster after the challenge has been made.

Since its something we can't guarantee there wont be cheating on, we can't really formalise it. Perhaps its better to just leave it to the disgression of the players - if they agree to play with teams as is or trust each other thats fine, or if they want to use a 3rd party as a neutral group to which they submit their offence/defence listings to before they make changes, that could work too.

Unless you can think of a way to formalise it that will work practically.

Blood-Iron League is a good idea, though doesn't sound too catchy. Crimson Iron League? Anything else is good Wink
Sparticus



Joined: Jan 31, 2004

Post   Posted: Aug 08, 2004 - 08:54 Reply with quote Back to top

well i belive that the offence and Defence, side of it will bring a new stratagy to the game, hence it should be made a focus point of the teams playing with in the league,so in saying that

4 players = MADE to be perma Offence
4 players= Made to be perma Defence
3 players (must be Lino's) = You can use as "eachway" players, these playes can sub anyone from either the Off, or Def so if u dunt feel like bringin on a player u dunt have to u can leave him off...

HENCE any player that is Si'ed, Rip'ed, Niggling, that cannot take play for the game u cannot replace from the offence or defence team the so they can only be filled by the eachway players, heance leaveing your team short but thats kinda the idea....

Star players = No (they dunt have a place in the league & will over balance teams+ they arnt linemen)

Wizards = No

Freebooters = oks should someone get totaly shafted in a matchup, and have more players missing then they have Eachway players, they may hire freebooters to fill the gap, Ie, 4 playes missing a game for some reason, u may hire 1 freebooter to make the 1 extra player u will be down for the match, your choice if you do....

id like to see some way of including the assiatnt coaches\ cheerlearers, in the league somehow, for ever 2 assiatnt coaches allows u to have 1 eachway player ( as yu have a offence and defence team, the head coatch cant train em both, he needs help, so theses guys help and allow the head coach to boost his numbers) thou this will cut down the eachway players at the start of the league unless ppl sacrafice RR's or FF...

as with Cheerleaders, for every 2 Cheerleaders u have allows u to have 1 RR

the assistant coaches\cheerleaders could be used only for FLUFF Rules, but if we are making a entirely diffrent mod of normal BB why not make thigs really diffrent ( i have no idea who this will afect team cost's ect IE, Woodes\darkelves, ect ect but would be intresting
Wallace



Joined: May 26, 2004

Post   Posted: Aug 08, 2004 - 09:23 Reply with quote Back to top

Okay there are some cool ideas floating around here, I think we need to keep track of everything and make sure all the possible rules are discussed. To help this I've got a list together of all the points raised so far, plus some more I think need to be sorted out. I'll edit this post when more are made:

1) How flexible are the positions?
-> Can any player be moved to any position between matches, or is the only movement allowed that of a sub becoming an offensive or defensive player?
-> At what stage can you change positions, i.e. only before a challenge or after a challenge before you connect?

2) When can subs be used? I.e. can you choose to use a sub even if one of your regular players isn't injured, for instance to protect a key star when the game is no longer in the balance?

3) Stars, generally agreed that they have no place.

4) Freebooters, should they be permitted, given you do have 3 reserves already?

5) Sparts idea for coaches and cheerleaders.

6) League scoring

7) Stunty teams

----------------------------------------------------

Now for my opinions:

1) I think you should be able to move any player to any position between games. Otherwise offensive teams will become very strong with lots of SPP's and defensive teams will struggle to keep up with the skills. Putting a player onto offence for a few games to get some scores, get a skill or two of a defensive nature then moving them back to defense will help keep the teams balanced.

On the issue of changing after a challenge, I reckon hell yeah and just have a honesty system that you won't look at you opponents team after the challenge is declared. So you can check 'em out when someone says 'hey wanna game' but after you say 'sure', you both have a couple of minutes to switch positions before you connect and start the game.

2) I think you should be able to use a sub whenever you want. As they are only linies, it is unlikely that they will become super players that are always used on offense and defence. Maybe early on, but once you can afford all your positional players linies become crappy. The only problem would be stat increase or doubles linos, that ST4 liney could become a pain if he is a 'sub' that plays all game. So maybe only to replace injuries would be best. Dunno, I guess I'm undecided on this...

3) Yep no stars I reckon

4) No freebooters either, you have 3 subs already... Well actually not quite no freebooters, I think a strict 11 players on the roster rule should be used. SO if you are down to 10 (including MNG's) you can freeboot a guy if you want, but not to cover MNG's or possible nigglers by ever having 12 on the roster.

5) I kinda like the fluff of sparts idea, but I'm worried it would affect the balance. It really hits elvish teams hard and other teams with expensive linos. It's hard enough starting with enough rr's without having to buy cheerleaders as well! And to use your sull 3 subs you need to spend 60k on coaches! On the balance I'd prefer to not use these rules, but they are a clever idea.

6) I suggest 5 for a win, 2 for a draw, 0 for a loss with no bonus points for cas or TD's. Why? Because awarding points for a loss means that players who are online a lot and play lots of games get a huge advantage ( I assume we will use an open RR format). Only giving points for wins means you have to really earn 'em. Getting CAS's gives you a big in game advantage in 4v4, so dosn't need additional league points for it as well! I'd hate to see a dwarf team with a sub .500 record win the league just 'cos they mangled everyone else! It's not really where the enjoyment of 4v4 comes from IMHO.


Last edited by Wallace on Aug 08, 2004 - 10:07; edited 1 time in total
BeefyGoodness



Joined: Nov 25, 2003

Post   Posted: Aug 08, 2004 - 09:32 Reply with quote Back to top

Hey Sparticus, nice post.
I agree with you totally that offence/ defence positions should be permanent, but think that a substitute may be able to make his way up in a team (I mean some players live their life on the bench but others can be more than 'impact' players).
I think that the coach should have the option of moving a substitute player up the ranks and ditching one of their offensive players (Its a tuff game and some people get axed Smile ).
Following this lead people can use subs in their lineup if players are injured... (The whole idea is to make the game more balanced for bashed teams) but also think that freebooters should be also dissallowed... so that the team is "The Team" not some ring ins hired at a moments notice. Either buy a new player and ditch somebody or play a man down it's up to the coach.
BeefyGoodness



Joined: Nov 25, 2003

Post   Posted: Aug 08, 2004 - 09:41 Reply with quote Back to top

Doh wallace you posted while I was writing my last Wink

I should really number these thingies eh?
1) Yeah after a bit of thinking you're right.... I think being able to swap players positions makes the game more dynamic.... and doesn't punish the rosters that make defensive scoring really hard.

6) not sold on the whole coaches thing as it would be really hard to make work in a team roster balance way. i.e elves getting shafted.
Sparticus



Joined: Jan 31, 2004

Post   Posted: Aug 08, 2004 - 09:51 Reply with quote Back to top

of coures u can choses to have a perma Off, or Def to miss a drive if you wish, complety your choice, thou a max of 1 player UNLESS, u have a perma OFF, or DEF player Ming the game for some reason then his postion is UP for grabs so to speak with any EW(eachway) player u wish after a drive, but say if you want your Prize wardancer to miss the turn of 2nd half, u can replace him with a spare EW player. but a max of 1 player u can CHOOSE to miss the drive weather it be OFF, or Def per kickoff..
Wallace



Joined: May 26, 2004

Post   Posted: Aug 08, 2004 - 10:10 Reply with quote Back to top

Just remembered another idea I had, I've added it in my post above as number 7)

I think allowing stunty teams in this league would be interesting as well. They would die a lot and their subs would suck, but they could have BG on both off and def teams as well as pumpwagons, weapons etc etc. Dunno if anyone else agrees but I reckon stunties could compete in this format with regular teams and it could add some more interest.
XZCion



Joined: Jul 05, 2004

Post   Posted: Aug 08, 2004 - 13:02 Reply with quote Back to top

at the moment;

it is free substitution for 's' players onto the o or d team at any time.

d players cannot take part in an o drive unless you need them to make up numbers because you're out of o AND s players to make up four.

no star players or freebooters AT ALL.

you can change any player between any team on your roster simply by changing the picture. 'the picture is the law' is basically it at the moment. so if you stuff up and make a change you didn't, or don't make a change you wanted to, then you can't change it untill next game.

this is the easiest and simplest way to do it. next season all of this discussion will come in very handy, exspecially after we've all played a few games and seen how the current rules work.
Sparticus



Joined: Jan 31, 2004

Post   Posted: Aug 08, 2004 - 15:01 Reply with quote Back to top

i really cant understand the changing the offence and defence around, at the start of the game ppl will need to basicly screw around with player pics, ect ect, where as if you had to make say a Offenceive teams that was perma, diffrent skills would be a prerequsite to have a strong offence.... as with defence, hence also highlighting the diffrent race advantages, Ie elves high MA, orcs STR.

but thats my opinion, surely this league would HAVE to be structured, and not just FFA
XZCion



Joined: Jul 05, 2004

Post   Posted: Aug 08, 2004 - 15:54 Reply with quote Back to top

The idea of allowing teams to change their lineups during downtime is more to allow skilled s players to jump onto the o or d teams in the case of o or d plaers retireing or dying. of course some coaches aren't gonna want to do this, instead using only position players on the o and d teams. which is also fair enough. i DO think that allowing between game team changes is definitely a better option than 'once an offence player, always an offence player', exspeically as it gives a little something back to the teams that lack large numbers of positional players, who tend to suffer when you can only have 4 people on the pitch.

at the moment, it's just a simple little 5 team open comp, because it's bleeding edge experimental. if we get more interest (i.e. more people join the league with snorri teams) then how we run the comp will probably have to change.
Snorri



Joined: Jun 07, 2004

Post   Posted: Aug 10, 2004 - 23:20 Reply with quote Back to top

Have posted the preliminary rules for the new season of the offence/defence/sub league - "Brewmeister's Bowl". See the Zeke League page.

http://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=group&op=view&group=1627

Kept the rules pretty simple - some explanations why/etc.

Scrapped the idea of Blood Iron or something similar - this would imply ours is less than the real thing played overseas! A mere copy! The shame of it. They're the charlatans with the fake that gets dandied around before the genuine thing.

Dynamic changes between games of offence/defence/subs. If you dont want to fiddle with pics, ye dont have to, but adds some flexibility and allows you to do what you're supposed to do - coach! Still, you may find you need to change tactics mid season, or use different tactics against different teams, or you may get one of your lads roll that crucial doubles roll that you need on your offence team!

No team cash limit imposed. Hoard away you bearded little dwarves if you want to, but dont complain when you start giving away handicaps from tr bloat!

RR limit imposed. After playing a couple of 4x4's with teams having 8 rerolls, I noticed just how much those teams ran like a smoothly greased gyrocopter. Nothing unpredictable since you could almost guarantee every move (since you only have four guys, you can use rerolls on 25% of your moves - very few failures!) - incredibly boring!

Didn't do anything much with the assistant coaches/cheerleaders. They're so easy come and easy go it's hard to come up with a practical idea that's actually really tactical. Keep your ideas coming though.

Some generic images have a link to them on the zeke league page. This saves all you loungechair lizardmen having to make your own! If you have some good premade sets, let me know and I'll add them. Would like to get your zons set at some stage Beefy.

We have until Monday to finalise the rules and add teams before we start the tourney, up to 2 teams per coach. Send me a PM with the name of your team that you'd like to enter with - I think that will be the easiest way of keeping track of things.

Hooroo,
Brewmeister Snorri
Snorri



Joined: Jun 07, 2004

Post   Posted: Aug 11, 2004 - 04:28 Reply with quote Back to top

Just been alerted to the fact that the tourney description doesn't show up on the zeke league page until the tourney is activated. So here's a copy of it. Hopefully will start on Monday.

<b>Brewmeister's Bowl</b>

Named after the proud sponsors of the bowl, the "Brewmeister's Guild". The brewmeisters are the stocky artisans of the XXXX brew that hopes to one day emulate the fame of Bugman's XXXXX down here in the Southern Wastes (though there are some that scoff at the chances of their reaching this goal!). They throw themselves behind the bowl (literally!) supplying kegs for the halftime drinks breaks (at least when the benched substitutes haven't managed to claim their stake in it early into the game) and often themselves play the part of ...erm 'water boys'.

Enough of the sponsor's, onto the game. The Brewmeister's Bowl is intended to be a short, hard and exciting version of the game that hopes to keep the crowd entertained in the long spells between swl divisional bloodbaths. It is similar in some respects to that game across the ocean (there are those who wished to name the tournament after such, but who'd give credit to that bunch of whackers - their game is surely nothing but a mockup of the genuine article that follows!).
    Teams may be chosen from the list specified in the LRB.
    Each team consists of up to 4 offence players, 4 defence and 3 substitutes (max. team total 11!).
    Substitutes may only be chosen from the linemen of your race (no positional players or big guys).
    Maximum # of players from any team on the pitch is 4 (aka standard 4x4 game).
    Offence players may play only when the team is receiving.
    Defence players may play only when the team is kicking.
    Substitutes may fill in on either offence or defence roles.
    Each player is to be identified by an image (via player's bio) that represents them as an off/def/sub player.
    Players may change roles between games
    By gentlemen's agreement, coaches may secretly change player roles after a challenge is made, but before the game commences.
    No wizards, stars or freebooters allowed.
    Maximum number of rerolls allowed is 4 (to keep the game entertaining).
    Maximum number of coaches/cheerleaders is 6.

Feel free to create your own images, however you may also use some 'stock' images that have already been created here:

This season will be an open round robin format, if it catches on despite the protests of "it just ain't cr....blood bowl!" we may move to divisionals in the future. Winners will earn the privelege of being allowed an extra reroll in the coming season. In addition the team proudly toting the wooden ladle will also earn an extra reroll to reflect the effect of the extra kegs promised in the offseason by the Brewmeister's. These will assuredly boost morale and attract talented recruits!

Scoring will be 5/3/2 for win/draw/loss respectively.
Snorri



Joined: Jun 07, 2004

Post   Posted: Aug 11, 2004 - 04:52 Reply with quote Back to top

Adding images to your guys is as easy as spreading a rumour in a halfling village.

    Create a 114x169 jpg (or download from the links in the previous note).
    Go to one of your team pages and click on any team member.
    Near where you can edit the bio, you can also "change image".
    Unless you've done it before you'll have an empty selection of images to choose from.
    Upload all three images you want to use for your players (this puts them into a general pool you can draw from).
    Wait...wait...and wait around some more until they get approved.
    Finally repeat the process at a later date for a particular player and you'll get back to a hopefully nonempty selection of pics for your lad.


Last edited by Snorri on Aug 23, 2004 - 08:15; edited 1 time in total
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