27 coaches online • Server time: 09:24
Forum Chat
Log in
Recent Forum Topics goto Post DOTP Season 4goto Post Skittles' Centu...goto Post Secret League Americ...
SearchSearch 
Post new topic   Reply to topic
View previous topic Log in to check your private messages View next topic
Colin



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Aug 25, 2004 - 03:56 Reply with quote Back to top

I have seen/read elsewhere that coaches develop offensive and defensive skinks - the former receive Catch, Sprint, Sure Feet, Side Step etc, the latter receive Side Step and Diving Tackle (especially good on damaged skinks who you are more willing to risk using for man-marking). Catch is one of the most important skills you can use, allowing easy hand-off plays to cover big distances in a single turn. Diving Tackle does not need to cause a turnover - if it prevents a player from moving, because the coach doesn't wish to risk the dodge, it has given you a tactical edge.

The 2-turn TD using skinks usually needs a RR, an Ag 4 skink and one skink with Catch for decent odds of success - first skinks runs from his own backfield and hands-off to Ag 4 skink (2+), Ag 4 skink runs forward and passes to awaiting Catch skink (3+ with TRR, and 3+ with Catch RR), Catch skink runs it in (skink should already be in range of endzone without need for GFI). Risk of failure = 1-(5/6 * 8/9 * 8/9) = just over 1/3, which isn't much different from trying the same thing with Humans. It wouldn't be my first offensive option, but can do in an emergency.
the_grey_ghost



Joined: Oct 22, 2003

Post   Posted: Aug 25, 2004 - 06:00 Reply with quote Back to top

I would not be telling this to a new coach. I would just encourage him to pass it short distances, he won't ge getting an AG plus skink for awile. Mabie something to keep in mind but not the first choice.

Catch is probably a very overlooked skill though and one worth premoting for the 2 skink tries. I like the offensive and defensive skink idea too.

The main reason why I would go Shadowing is to help the Saurus's be an imobilization factor on the other team. Namely so that their players can't turn around and blitz your skinks. Since they have ma 6 they still have a good chance at working against your ma 7 players like wood elves and as you said with diving tackle, it would make a player think twice. Also no one has suggested the Saurus with the tackle followed up with the skink with the Diving tackle. It's been a play in my head for ages and it has worked once or twice (though it is hard to get players with tackle and little dudes with DT and still have the person dodge.)
Wombats



Joined: Oct 31, 2003

Post   Posted: Aug 25, 2004 - 06:07 Reply with quote Back to top

Might put a breakdown like that in for rookie skinks doing a hand-off into a cage then hand-off to a scorer.
With two teams rerolls the probability looks nice but doesn't account for cage breaking.

1-(8/9*8/9) ~ 80% chance with two team rerolls

Don't know what I was thinking passing all this time - I have been ridiculously lucky.

_________________
Ninja versus Pirate . . . Ninja WINS!
www.realultimatepower.net
tautology



Joined: Jan 30, 2004

Post   Posted: Aug 25, 2004 - 06:44 Reply with quote Back to top

Quote:

Also no one has suggested the Saurus with the tackle followed up with the skink with the Diving tackle


Krox with Tackle, Guard and hopefully Stand Firm. Skink with Side Step, Diving Tackle. Keep them next to each other so they can't blitz their way out. -3 to dodge away, tough to block your way out...this can stop most non-leaping players dead in their tracks.
Colin



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Aug 25, 2004 - 11:06 Reply with quote Back to top

I would recommend 1 Saurus at least with Break Tackle/Tackle, to help out vs Blodging teams. Sometimes you just can't afford to waste time giving them all Block first.

_________________
Join The Cult of Tzeentch, mutate randomly! | Hug a newb! Join the Faculty of Academy Instructors!
Wombats



Joined: Oct 31, 2003

Post   Posted: Aug 25, 2004 - 14:15 Reply with quote Back to top

Inserting the Guard part of the Prehensile Tail/Diving Tackle discussion and removing the snide remarks about people who need a Break Tackler before Block - If people knew how to fight Lizards it would be the default choice.

_________________
Ninja versus Pirate . . . Ninja WINS!
www.realultimatepower.net
Wombats



Joined: Oct 31, 2003

Post   Posted: Aug 25, 2004 - 14:26 Reply with quote Back to top

Incidently most points that have been brought up I've gone and edited the text in response...

...so let me know if I've missed useful stuff and I will either correct it or slap you about the face with the rainbow trout of deserved rebuttals, depending on its merit and the general consensus Smile

_________________
Ninja versus Pirate . . . Ninja WINS!
www.realultimatepower.net
Colin



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Aug 25, 2004 - 21:14 Reply with quote Back to top

The plan for my own lizards was to go for 3 Saurus with Block first (on kick-offs, they are on the LoS), and 3 Saurus with Break Tackle first. Perhaps 2 Break Tacklers would be enough to start with.
Likewise, I planned on a fairly equal division of offensive and defensive skinks. Alas, the team hasn't yet played enough games to see if all this works yet.

_________________
Join The Cult of Tzeentch, mutate randomly! | Hug a newb! Join the Faculty of Academy Instructors!
vanGorn



Joined: Feb 24, 2004

Post   Posted: Aug 25, 2004 - 22:11 Reply with quote Back to top

I'm always happy when the vp goes to a saurus. The first 6 spp are hard to get with cas only, especially when you're in a tournament with high-AV-opponents.
One of my sauri has played in 21 of the 25 matches. But he hangs on just 4 spp Sad
Grumbledook



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Aug 25, 2004 - 23:47 Reply with quote Back to top

sprint sure feet?!

waste of skills on any player imho apart from throwers and thats when you got all passing skills you need

diving tackle and shadowing are awesome, of course its a double on a skink for shadowing and i would rather have block

i recommend a kicker as well, good on any team, great on fast ones
Wombats



Joined: Oct 31, 2003

Post   Posted: Aug 26, 2004 - 01:45 Reply with quote Back to top

Grumbledook wrote:

i recommend a kicker as well, good on any team, great on fast ones


Kick on a Skink or a backfield Saurus?

Personally I only put Sprint and Sure Feet on a Skink who has already got a Movement bonus. I feel obliged to construct one turners despite the fact I only use them for two turn scores.

Opinions anyone? I was going to put these in but skimming some rosters showed neither was a particularly common rule of thumb.

_________________
Ninja versus Pirate . . . Ninja WINS!
www.realultimatepower.net
Wombats



Joined: Oct 31, 2003

Post   Posted: Aug 26, 2004 - 09:07 Reply with quote Back to top

Adding this stuff from fork for future reference:

Well worth to note here is that the chance that a DC, C skink will catch the ball on an inaccurate pass is 38%. (38,2324%) That could be good to know since skinks are somewhat prone to... miss passes.

_________________
Ninja versus Pirate . . . Ninja WINS!
www.realultimatepower.net
Lorion



Joined: Feb 04, 2004

Post   Posted: Aug 26, 2004 - 11:06 Reply with quote Back to top

I wuold say... that the tackle suarus is a great must. Block on the suari isn't. By the time they get block most opponents have it anyway, so you dont get extra cas for it. Only thing it is good for is perventing your sauri from going down (which ST4 does quite well in it self), and save re-rolls. The later being the more important. Dont get block as first skill on more than a couple sauri. Go for one with tackle MB to rid yourselve of those nasty blodgers. If you play it right he should not need break tackle... indeed I think you value break tackle far too high. With 6 times ST 4 and one times ST 5, you should be able to make sure that some of them are always available for blitzing, just don't throw your sauri forward needlessly. Agianst bashy teams guard is a valuable skill... it you dont have it chaos and orcs will roll right over your team. My proposal is (take skills in the order listed):
1*Saurus with tackle, MB, breaktackle. on doubbles you go for frenzy
1*Saurus with tackle, block, MB. Also go for frenzy with this guy
2*Saurus with Gaurd, Block, MB. The obvious choiche on a doubble is stand firm for this kind of suarus.
2*Saurus with Block, Guard/Tackle/Breaktackle. Two spots for the making suari that fit your own style of play. You should remember to have some that start with block. The later skills are less important.

The team is build around the tackle suari in this team... they are quite a must. But it might be nice first to get a block saurus, to limit the re-roll burn. As you'll need them for making TD's.
Against TD teams I would use my suari to help for a slow moving cage while I beat the crap out of anything that can move. Aplying the tactics of a bashy team. Against a more bashy team I would try and tie up the main strength of the team with the sauri while using the stunty on the skinks to get to the ball-carrier. These tactics have proven pretty effective so far. Though a cage with an ST2 skink against a Welf Team probably isn't a good idea. Then agian woodelves are the worst opponents Lizzards can ever face.Holding back a wardancer requires brilliant planning.

As for the skinks... i would say sidestep is the best skill.... get it when you don't roll doubbles. On some skinks yoou might consider catch sure fet sprint. But remember, if you make a td machine he'll suck up many SPP. Surehands is a good skill to prevent re-roll burning, but Block is better at keeping skinks alive. Furthermore I really like the idea of a DP skink.... its just so evil that its good.

Just my five cents..

_________________
For in the end either all or nothing is eternal.
Wombats



Joined: Oct 31, 2003

Post   Posted: Aug 27, 2004 - 04:03 Reply with quote Back to top

Tackle befoer Block is an interesting idea. Need to be reroll heavy to avoid turnovers...URL for a team that has done this successfully?

_________________
Ninja versus Pirate . . . Ninja WINS!
www.realultimatepower.net
Wombats



Joined: Oct 31, 2003

Post   Posted: Aug 27, 2004 - 07:04 Reply with quote Back to top

Inserted defensive/offensive Skink concept - would love feedback on the skill sets I put forward as they are pure hearsay and flim flam.

Also added that there is a lot to be learnt from Gobbo and Halfling coaches in making the best use of Stunty dodges.

Getting close to submitting this baby...rant now or forever hold your peace...or just update it yourself.

_________________
Ninja versus Pirate . . . Ninja WINS!
www.realultimatepower.net
Display posts from previous:     
 Jump to:   
All times are GMT + 1 Hour
Post new topic   Reply to topic
View previous topic Log in to check your private messages View next topic