| Poll |
| What do you think of Clan Moulder? (Version 10.2) |
| I like it how it is |
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37% |
[ 3 ] |
| I like the fluff but the roster needs work (please say why!) |
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25% |
[ 2 ] |
| I like the roster but the fluff needs work (please say why!) |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
| I hate all of it (please don't say why - just go get your head examined ;) |
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37% |
[ 3 ] |
|
| Total Votes : 8 |
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Molt
Joined: Aug 04, 2003
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 Posted:
Sep 22, 2004 - 16:30 |
 
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CLAN MOULDER - STUNTY LEAGUE TEAM PROPOSAL (draft version)
FLUFF:
To the North, in the blasted wastelands known as the Troll country, lie the infernal breeding pits of Clan Moulder. Their stronghold is burrowed into the walls and floor of a ragged chasm in a snowy mountainside in the Northern spur of the world's edge mountains. Volcanic pools at the bottom of the chasm raise a greyish mixture of sulphur with the stench of matted fur and excrement carried on the wind. Worse than the stench is the dreadful cacophony of howls, squawks, snarls and shrieks which clamour out of the frozen chasm like the wailing lost souls of a thousand races. Not without reason is this place known as Hell Pit.
Lord Verminkin, Packlord of Clan Moulder, rules Hell Pit. He is feared not only as the mightiest of the Council of Thirteen, but also because he commands the huge wealth of Clan Moulder - won through selling their vile creations to whoever can afford their price. In fact it was the ever increasing demand for trained Rat Ogres fit for bloodbowl that first turned Lord Verminkin's cruel eye upon the sport. He attended a match and was immediately hooked - revelling in the senseless violence. His own bloodthirsty roar was soon added to that of the massed crowds. So much sadistic pleasure did it bring him that upon his return to Hell Pit he ordered his very own packmasters and war beasts to represent Clan Moulder in the Bloodbowl arena.
Their first match was a prestigious event hosted in Hell Pit itself. Curious fans - mostly of Skaven origin - had travelled great distances, including leading officials of the NAF. Their opponents, the Mordheim Manglers were standing nervously at line up. Lord Vermin sitting in his his personal box - heavily caged and elevated above the rest of the crowd - signalled the game to start. The Manglers looked up in surprise - how could the game start when the Moulder team hadn't even come onto the pitch? Then the large metal doors on the other end of the pitch slung slowly inwards revealing darkness. Muffled screeching and clawing sounds were heard from within, punctuated by the cracking of whips. Spilling on to the pitch came 2 horribly mutitated, tripple pincered scorpions, a massive manticore, and several Rat Ogres slobering rabidly. The Manglers stood stock still staring in horror, then sprinted for their lives towards their dug outs. They never made it. The crowd sat in stunned silence as the team was rapidly butchered and eaten. One of the scorpions started skuttling towards the spectators, snipping its pincers menacingly - the rat ogres quickly followed suit. Chaos erupted as the crowl fought to flee the advancing terrors - whilst above it all came the sinister booming laughter of Lord Verminkin. The death toll reached into the hundreds. Lord Verminkin, highly satisfied with the result, was mortified to receive a lifetime ban from what was left of the NAF after the slaughter. There was even talk of banning Rat Ogres from the game all togther.
He ranted and raged for weeks, taking out his anger upon who were foolish enough to cross his path. Bloodbowl became a dangerous subject - to even mention its name could mean death or worse. Yet the frenzied excitement of previous weeks had formed too great an impression upon the collective imagination of Clan Moulder to be forgotten - so much so that several Packmasters overcame their cowardice and made a pact to covertly disobey their master.
Agents were discretely sent out across the old world, seeking a league so far beneath their master's dignity that they could play without ever being discovered. At last the ideal league was found - none other than the Fumbbl Stunty Leeg!
ROSTER (VERSION 10.2):
| Quote: | Clan Moulder teams are renound for great strengths as well as great weaknesses. On one hand most of their players are little more than feral beasts. Incapable of handling the ball or understanding complex tactics often they require constant instruction in the form of the lashes delivered by the Packmaster's cruelly barbed whips. On the other hand none can forget the brute savagery of the Rat Ogres or the Packmasters' powerful blocks.
PLAYERS:
130k 0-1 Rat Ogres 6 5 3 8 - Wild Animal, Big Guy, MB, Frenzy, Prehensile Tail
50k 0-4 Packmasters 7 2 3 7 - none
30k 0-12 Giant Rats 6 2 3 6 - Really Stupid, No Hands, Dodge, Stunty, Jump Up
Apocathary: 50k Rerolls: 60k
SKILLS:
Rat Ogre - G, St, Ph
Packmasters - G, Ph
Giant Rats - Ag, Ph
CHANGES:
Version 10:Packmasters: 0-4, ST2, 50k. Rat Ogres: 0-1, (10.2) Giant Rats AV6
Version 9: Rat Swarms: REMOVED!. Giant Rats: -AV, Dodge.
Version 8: Rat Swarms: -Stand Firm, +Frenzy. Giant Rats: -Diving Tackle, +Jump Up.
Version 7: Packmasters now ST3, 70k price
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EARLIER FORUM TOPIC:
Title: Skaven - I love to hate them
Link: http://fumbbl.com/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=3222
SAMPLE TEAM - COMPLETE WITH PORTRAITS:
Version 10: http://www.geocities.com/dmarlton/moulders/moulders10.html
Version 9: http://www.geocities.com/dmarlton/moulders/moulders9.html
Version 8: http://www.geocities.com/dmarlton/moulders/moulders8.html
Version 7: http://www.geocities.com/dmarlton/moulders/moulders7.html
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Last edited by Molt on %b %06, %2004 - %13:%Oct; edited 17 times in total |
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celas
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Sep 22, 2004 - 16:39 |
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I would really like to see a stunty skaven team and rats come in all sizes so it's not too much of a stretch. It looks like you have a put a lot of work in the fluff and design. Nice job. My only comment is that the team would have difficulty moving almost all of their players due to the really stupid and only two players can handle the ball (yes I know the ROs could do it, but let's be realistic). I think that might make it too much of a challenge and more of a put-off. You may want to increase the number of Packmasters and take away access to general skills...or perhaps give the giant rats bonehead? |
_________________
Northern Wastes League |
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Molt
Joined: Aug 04, 2003
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| Posted:
Sep 22, 2004 - 16:51 |
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The bonehead is definitely out - the really stupid works so well because the Packmasters and rat Ogres have to herd along the rats (ie be in their tackle zones). with careful planning you can be confident of getting an action with most of your rats. Unless you meant give the rats Bonehead AND Really Stupid...
Having 4 packmasters and 2 Rat Ogres would be too good in my opinion. What do you think?
I had in mind 2 other options:
Either: 4 Packmasters and 1 Rat Ogre
Or: Give the 2 Packmasters ST 3
dunno whats best - probably the the second one as there's no fluffy reason why they should be weaker than ordinary skaven
whats the concensous? |
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Molt
Joined: Aug 04, 2003
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| Posted:
Sep 22, 2004 - 17:29 |
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How much should they cost with ST3? maybe 70k? I know ordinary skaven Linemen are normally 50k but ST3 and Gen access is much more powerful in stunty.
Oh - and thanks for the compliment, I have got a bit carried away with this one  I used to have an EXTREMELY Clan Moulder biased Warhammmer Skaven army |
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Molt
Joined: Aug 04, 2003
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| Posted:
Sep 24, 2004 - 16:08 |
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Decided to give the Rat Swarm Frenzy instead of Stand Firm. Stand firm just didn't sit right with the team image.
I have also decided to give the Giant Rats Jump Up instead of diving tackle. I think it will create a more interesting, dynamic team, and mean they justify their 30k price tag (which in Version 7 they didn't quite do). It also makes them harder to foul to pieces if isolated from the pack, since they can get to their feet without making a Really Stupid roll (i think).
Should I now reduce their AV to 5? |
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Molt
Joined: Aug 04, 2003
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| Posted:
Sep 24, 2004 - 16:30 |
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Bah I like the rat swarms less and less all the time. Someone suggested getting rid of them - I think i'm going to do that. Just incase I change my mind i'm leaving a copy here...
60k 0-2 Rat Swarms 4 2 3 5 - Wild Animal, Really Stupid, No Hands, Stunty, Dodge, Frenzy, Piling On, Jump up
Rat Swarms - Ag, Ph
Decided to go with -AV, but give them dodge skill. They didn't seem right without dodge somehow - its such a ratty skill  |
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Tinkywinky
Joined: Aug 25, 2003
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| Posted:
Sep 24, 2004 - 16:51 |
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How about making the packmasters stunties and allowing more of them? Str3 players don't feel very Stunty Leeg. |
_________________
Do you play ranked and wonder where all the good coaches are? Are you also from Sweden? Then join the Swedish league! |
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Molt
Joined: Aug 04, 2003
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| Posted:
Sep 24, 2004 - 17:40 |
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Something I keep considering - the problem is twofold: the first, fluffy the second how the team will play...
The warhammer armies book describes Packmasters as: '...tough individual warriors, often mutated with spikes growing out of their flesh or extra arms'. I can think of no good reason why they should be weaker than ordinary clan rats (who are kinda on the short and stunty side anyway). These guys are the trainers of Rat Ogres - thats no job for weaklings!
If i do make it 0-4 and give them ST2 i'll take out one of the Rat Ogres - the team would be too good otherwise. I don't really want to give them dodge and stunty - i want them to keep them with gen acces to be a bit different to the norm |
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AFK_Eagle
Joined: Mar 12, 2004
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| Posted:
Sep 24, 2004 - 17:53 |
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Where's it written you can't be stunty and still have gen access? Why not? Or if you want them tougher with spikes or extra arms, you can start them out with a mutation to begin with--spikes need to remain as a later choice for coaches to select, but extra arms or two heads for improved dodging/intercepting would be an interesting way to start, and the fluff remains--two heads improve chances of observing all the rats around you, while extra arms give you rapid-fire slaps on rats (ogres) which don't listen... |
_________________
Listen to Eagle! Eagle is good, Eagle is wise!
Founder of the E.L.F.--These elves will play anybody! |
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Tinkywinky
Joined: Aug 25, 2003
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| Posted:
Sep 24, 2004 - 17:53 |
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But if you just roll one double on a packmaster he will become an unstoppable and fast blodger. Just think about how good a ST4 blodger is in normal play. In stunty there are virtually no tackle (big guys are easy enough to keep away from the ball carrier) or strip ball to counter this kind of player and every moulder team would get one pretty quick.
EDIT: I also think that 2 ballcarriers is way to little. The team becomes helpless if the packmasters are removed from the pitch and I can can tell you that they will get a LOT of fouls commited against them, AV 7 breaks easily.
The team isn't too good or too bad it's just unbalanced. |
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Molt
Joined: Aug 04, 2003
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| Posted:
Sep 27, 2004 - 11:20 |
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if 'balanced' isn't 'not too good or too bad' please give a definition of what exactly 'unbalanced' is!
I like AFK Eagle's suggestion - how about this with 0-1 Rat Ogre and just General Access for added variety of mutations...
60k 0-1 PackmasterT 7 2 3 7 - tentacles
60k 0-1 PackmasterA 7 2 3 7 - extra arms
60k 0-1 PackmasterS 7 2 3 7[8] - spikes
60k 0-1 PackmasterH 7 2 3 7 - two heads
what selection of mutations should they get? the above list was fairly abitrary |
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Wombats
Joined: Oct 31, 2003
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| Posted:
Sep 27, 2004 - 11:55 |
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I think the variable Packmasters are too much of a departure from accepted norms at the moment as the basic viability of the roster is still in question imho.
Having said that this has come a long way and I really, really like where it's going.
How about increasing the Packmasters to 4 and restricting them to Physical and Agility skills? S3 & G access is too much in Stunty.
Sidestep and Jump Up will make for a really interesting dynamic effecting the Really Stupid rolls.
They are still a normal Ag skill and double away from Blodge BUT this means you have foregone Sure Hands or Big Hand for it. Ouch.
To further stop the development of multiple double skill roll Packmasters I suggest dropping the AV to 6 that reduces their long term prospects considerably and forces you to keep them in the midst of your rats, protected by their herd who keep jumping up to save them.
It's a big move having four S3 players but with that restricted skill access I *think* it would work.
Would love to see EvolveToAnarchism and other Stunty expert's opinion on this - it looks very interesting. |
_________________
Ninja versus Pirate . . . Ninja WINS!
www.realultimatepower.net |
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Molt
Joined: Aug 04, 2003
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| Posted:
Sep 27, 2004 - 15:58 |
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The concensus is most definitely on having 0-4 packmasters. In which case they couldn't really be ST3, even with only AG access. Having just the two st3 players would have been fine with respect to balance - and I still think its the way to go - but I bow to the majority
However with 1 Rat Ogre and 4 packmasters with ST2 the team roster looks like this...
VERSION 10
130k 0-1 Rat Ogres 6 5 3 8 - Wild Animal, Big Guy, MB, Frenzy, Prehensile Tail -> G, S, Ph
50k 0-4 Packmasters 7 2 3 7 - none -> G, PH
30k 0-12 Giant Rats 6 2 3 5 - Really Stupid, No Hands, Dodge, Stunty, Jump Up -> A, Ph
I defend keeping the Packmasters with Gen and not Ag access simply because they are that kind of player. If people think that its overpowerful, just compare them with Vamplings
I held out on giving each of the 4 packmasters a different mutation for this version, though I REALLY like that idea! |
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Alanir
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Sep 27, 2004 - 16:30 |
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It could be just me, but isn't this team going to get destroyed every time it receives on the kickoff (without concidering putting three packmasters on the line). The rats are weaker than snots without regen or thick skull, the single rat ogre has AV 8, and the packmasters don't have dodge. Yeah, this is generally what happens with skaven anyways, but those rats will drop like... well, rats... at higher team ratings your packmasters may be stronger, but so will the multiblock tackle big guys. Is there any way to keep the rats alive?? |
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Molt
Joined: Aug 04, 2003
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| Posted:
Sep 27, 2004 - 16:40 |
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Interesting point Alanir... I was working on the basis that since all the rats jump up the team could hit back pretty effectively. When there were 2 Rat Ogres on the roster this wasn't an issue - now it most definitely is.
I could give the rats AV6... or make them worth 20k so a full lineup could always be fielded
I think I probably favour AV6 (have made the change) |
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