tutis_silva_sed_tutis_ego
Joined: Sep 25, 2004
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  Posted:
Sep 27, 2004 - 03:13 |
 
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It is always interesting to see the different strategies used by Wood Elves. There are so many different ones. Also, a lot of formations. Much more so than teams like Undead which is simply, Kill, Kill, Kill, pick up ball:fail, pick up ball:succeed, Kill, Kill Kill, Score. I know there might be some protests, but I've never found an Undead strategy that varied much from this one.
I started out with a basic formation on offense of putting two catchers on either wing, a thrower in back, and my linemen along with my wardancers on the line. Then I would throw the ball from the thrower to a catcher who would race up the line and at the end of the turn be massacred by the enemy secondary. On defense I would choose pretty much the same formation.
Now I have changed my strategy to a formation on offense of putting my linemen on the line, with my two wardancers behind the line. The catchers on the wings, but only 1 up front on each side, the other two back a little. The thrower would be in back and would recieve the ball, throw to a catcher and then all catchers within range, along with my two wardancers positioned behind the line would form up into a little defensive pocket around the catcher. This was a strategy that created a group with defensive positions, along with having a slowest member of 8 movement. On defense I would set up with more linemen and only two catchers. I have a wardancer and my thrower with strip ball, and I place them back by the enzone. My two catchers play half-way deep, and my wardancer and linemen spread out over the line of scrimmage. My goal is to have a strong D-line which is still fast. The two catchers will easily slow down any who come up the side, and my two players with Strip only need a push-back to stop a runner in his tracks.
Thats my strategy, hope you like, how about yours?  |
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AFK_Eagle
Joined: Mar 12, 2004
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Sep 27, 2004 - 04:16 |
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I prefer the flood on offense--send all catchers and/or wd's deep, spread out enough that no one defender can be adjacent to both elves. The thrower takes the ball, retreats deep enough to not be threatened by enemy blitzers. The linemen (those who don't make initial blocks of opportunity) will form a loose fence between the enemy and where your thrower will be next turn. Then wait to see what the enemy does; he can only blitz and knockdown one of your elves in his turn, meaning you have a lot of targets in his half of hte field who are still standing. Granted, several will probably be surrounded by opposing players, but this means you'll usually have at least one who's by himself or only one tz on him. Your turn, you advance the thrower, throw the ball to the least defended target, who with agi 4 (and catch in the case of catchers) has a good shot at still catching the ball despite a single tz. Then dodge away for the score.
On defense, I'll usually only keep the three linemen up front, the other elves all at least two squares back (to guard against free blocks from quick-snap), with blodging sidesteppers up front to slow up his advance, stripballers behind another three squares or so. |
_________________
Listen to Eagle! Eagle is good, Eagle is wise!
Founder of the E.L.F.--These elves will play anybody! |
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Britnoth
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Sep 27, 2004 - 04:17 |
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My wood elves stall and foul, my undead run and pass.... |
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Uncle_Smed
Joined: May 22, 2004
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| Posted:
Sep 27, 2004 - 05:33 |
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Personally I like to forgo the wide zones entirely on defence, why bother defending them when your opponent will either score in one turn, or it won't matter where he is, you can reach him?
Three up front, couple of secondary players wide in the mid-zone and back a couple, wardancer three back in the middle, develop a 2nd wardancer (ya know, give him strip ball and tackle) to rove about 7 back in the middle, even 8 or 9. Sit your catchers back 4-6 squares from the line with someone in front of them and voila.. elven defence. For the three up front, use your line elf with a niggle and no skills, your treeman (you'd be amazed how many people dedicate the two-three players needed to get two dice and knock him over, and then the extra DP to try to foul him off), or a spare sidestepping blodger if you have enough to sacrifice one or two.
On offence... ahh just do whatever, all you need is to get a catcher 2 squares forward into their zone. If they set up a sacrificial three, knock them over, do your blitz, foul if you like and do a soft penetration (where you only gently push into their half say.. 4-5 squares at most) and give them as few blocks as possible. Have your thrower grab the ball, even taunt them with a pass to a catcher and then hand-off back to the thrower (cheesy 1 pt play, Mooha!).
If they set up a line... with a couple of men deep, do as Eagle suggests, thrower deep enough to not be blitzed.. and just work one side of their line so you can squeeze everything you've got through.
Above all, play to your strengths. If you get the numbers advantage by putting three of theirs off early, stick around and beat em up a lil.. they would if the ball were in their hands. If you need to score, score.. it's what WElves are good at and comes naturally.
And just above that, have some fun.. do silly things if you like and never be scared to lay in the boot! |
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Colin
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Sep 27, 2004 - 06:42 |
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Conversely I find fast teams should set up very close to the LoS on defence, to threaten the the opposition backfield, and take advantage of the occasional Blitz! kickoff result. The 3 guys on the line get hit, and one other will get blitzed - position them so that it's likely a lineman. I hate giving the opposition free access to my backfield, especially if they can pass well.
Woodelves should not pass until they can score the same turn, unless the opposition doesn't set up deep enough, in which case you should score easily by simply outrunning their defensive line and screening off your ball carrier with other players. One exception to this rule would be if the opposition has some scary Pass Blockers but no Strip Ballers, making it wise to get the pass off early. |
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Imerikol
Joined: Aug 05, 2004
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Sep 27, 2004 - 08:01 |
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On offense I put receivers deep and move my thrower out of range of his fastest players. Then I pass to someone midfield, who hands off to someone deep, who scores. Its easy to get the ball from your backfield to the opposing endzone this way.
On defense, I use the classic 4-3-4 formation to forse them to go up the middle... right in between my two strip ball wardancers. One of them often gets blitzed, but the second is always a threat. I put the tree and two blodge linos (if I have them) on the line to prevent some casualties. Once you get past the point of needing more money (not always easy for squishy elves), I hire Deeproot every chance I get to further reduce casualties by having two trees on the line.
Another important 'tactic' of mine is merely avoiding being in enemy tackle zones by the end of your turn. This sounds like an obvious tactic for avoiding casualties (and it is), but how you go about doing it deserves some discussion. Some people go for Dodge early so they can merely step out of TZs. I don't like this method. Even with Dodge, jumping out of TZs is riskier than blocks with a RR, can't cause the other guy casualties, and is pointless if the opposing team has a bunch of players with Tackle.
I go for Block first and do my best to block enemies off my elves. Move in assists as needed. It really helps if you get some Guard on your team too. ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS take Guard on a doubles roll unless its Str or you have a specific use in mind for the player who rolled doubles. Once a player gets Guard, cherish them and do your best to avoid them getting hit too much. Having Guard itself helps prevent getting hit because you can put your guards in situations that force the opponent to roll two dice your choice. My current WElfs are lucky in that they have 4 guard linos so far. They are invaluable, especially against other elf teams that aren't so blessed. |
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tza
Joined: Aug 25, 2004
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| Posted:
Sep 27, 2004 - 08:04 |
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I try to avoid putting anything up in LoS that doesn't
*have* to be there when it comes to playing WEs...they tend to break a bit too much so no need to cripple yourself by trying to go head to head with that dwarf or chaos team. |
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Glomp
Joined: Jan 04, 2004
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Sep 27, 2004 - 17:20 |
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Get a treeman quickly!!! He dosent do much and he certainly dosent help your plans in any real way, but he can tie up a few players and hold up the center of the field.
Treemen are also vital at minimising los damage where I find most injuries come from (if your scoring 5 touchdowns a game then your giving your opponent lots of free hits).
Also checkout the userguide for lots of great woodie playing tips. |
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Forum terrorist. |
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Casper
Joined: Feb 02, 2004
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| Posted:
Sep 27, 2004 - 17:53 |
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On offence I do a speed cage. Pass a player, break a hole somewhere (usually in the widezone) and pour through with most of my guys, knocking down the 3 LoS players if I can. The advantage is the pass is shorter, and if it fails (as all elf players will say double 1s are common) the ball is still well protected.
On defence I agree with Colin, put your players 1 square from the LoS. Sure, when your opponent gets quick snap he'll knock most players down, but that's only 5/36 and being 1 square closer to the opposition's backfield matters. A lot. I setup my wardancers 2 squares from the LoS though, so they can't be blitzed. Defense is the fun part, and putting pressure on the ball holder is crucial. Especially when you're playing bashy teams. |
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BadMrMojo
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Sep 27, 2004 - 19:33 |
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| Casper wrote: | | ...On defence I agree with Colin, put your players 1 square from the LoS. Sure, when your opponent gets quick snap he'll knock most players down, but that's only 5/36 and being 1 square closer to the opposition's backfield matters. A lot. I setup my wardancers 2 squares from the LoS though, so they can't be blitzed. Defense is the fun part, and putting pressure on the ball holder is crucial. Especially when you're playing bashy teams. |
Offense with woodies is the easy part... Defense is what wins games. Just a quick illustration of one version of what Casper is talking about (although I do 2 spaces back because that quick snap can suck)
| Code: |
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C |W W| C
L |k L| L
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| LTL |
----|-------|----
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C = Catcher, L = lineman or thrower, W = wardancer, T = tree and K = kicker... always get a kicker.
Always keep one catcher in either scoring range or in position to get out of reach of any opponents. Why? Because defense - especially with woodelves - is all about forcing turnovers and capitalizing on them. Keep those catchers handy, because they're your best way to capitalize. |
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Ta-Ouch! of BloodBowl
Condensed Guide for Newbies |
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SnakeSanders
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Sep 27, 2004 - 19:57 |
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On defence catchers are key once you develop them... The temptation is to get them sure feet or sprint incase you roll a +MA on a sprint but sidestep shadowing catchers are a real pain to the opposition... especially if you have 2 of them! Wardancers are obvious ball retrievers but if you can make your team a specialist unit of ball retrievers then you have won half the battle...
Always focus on the ball... never try to pound your opponents, you will lose
Take a look at my team... Woodvale Scorers II I use the catchers soley to retrieve the ball... problem is they do their job so well they often end up scoring so they have got a bit out of hand!!! Also note the 10/1/0 record which is Ok! Also it is key to spread SPP's round your players... especially the linos...
In conclusion... dont take scoring skills... you have plenty already... concentrate on the ball winning skills!
Hope this helps!  |
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Imerikol
Joined: Aug 05, 2004
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| Posted:
Sep 27, 2004 - 20:01 |
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BMM,
My defense looks like yours does (4-3-4) but I put my fast players in front of linos in case I get a Blitz!. That way you can advance your faster players closer to the ball or potential ball handlers deep in field. If you put a move 8 plyer right behind a move 7 player, they end up competing for the same square down field. Having the faster player in front eliminates this competition and spread out the players to form more of a 'fence' to keep the enemy back field and mid field players separated, allowing you to gang up on the often 1 or 2 back fielders on your next turn if you're lucky.
On a Blitz! I try for the following: advance my faster players down field to form a fence, blitzing a hole if necessary. Move at least 3 players into my backfield for a defense (prefereably a strip ball WD as well), and then either put in my hits on the LoS or dodge the poor bastards away from it to preserve them. The LoS linos often end up as part of my own backfield defense, forming another fence the enemy has to blitz through to get to my backfield without doing a lot of dodging.
End result of Blitz!es like this is that they either screw up a roll and hand me an easy score or they get into my side of the field where a strip baller is waiting to tackle the ball carrier who likely won't have sure hands (those guys would be in their backfield). Its a crappy situation for them either way, often forcing them so take some ugly risks to score or risk being scored on. Leave them with no good options. Bashy teams will usually bash a hole in the backfield and cage up around the ball... but significantly in their backfield. Ball handlers will often try to cage up mid field where they are sandwiched between my two fences while putting some receivers deep. Its not easy to completely stop either strategy, but you can at least make it riskier.
For bashy teams I just keep looking for holes in the cage for a leap strip ball to do its magic. But unless you want to get beat up alot, don't engage them and give up free blocks. Form fences in front of them and force them to come to you, hopefully allowing you to push them back each turn. If you can't get enough str/assists to push them off, you'll have to risk dodges, which sucks if they have a lot of Tackle, but its better than getting smashed to hell. If they have a large Guard/Str advantage on you (likely), don't form a dense cage, but instead try to put two layers of fence in front of them. This way they have to either advance really slowly or shift their cage, possibly making an opening. This also has the advantage of leaving you with fewer players who need to dodge out each turn.
Thats it for now. I'll check in again later.
For ball handlers, force them to make dodges by putting TZs on their receivers and, if you have guard advantage, surround the cage. This will force them to score or heavily risk losing the ball on your next turn. |
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BadMrMojo
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Sep 27, 2004 - 20:43 |
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Very good points from AFK, although there's one small thing I take exception to...
| AFK wrote: | | I put my fast players in front of linos in case I get a Blitz! |
As ridiculously lucky as I frequently may be, I'd rather count on NOT getting a blitz and try to deny an easy 2 or 3(!) die block on my catchers, hence hiding them behind linemen. It also helps my linemen keep up with the advance force going into the backfield - and almost any scores on linos are a good thing.
I'll also sometimes set up for defense without covering the widezones - particularly against a lot of frenziers. Some variation of this (shamelessly swiped from Moxy, if I remember correctly)
| Code: |
| CWC |
L| L W K |L
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| L T L |
----|-------|----
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The idea being that your players are fast enough to cover whichever side your opponent heads to and you can get a WD and the Catchers around the other to harrass his backfield.
Harrass his backfield. Heh. I can't believe I just said that... |
_________________
Ta-Ouch! of BloodBowl
Condensed Guide for Newbies |
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Topper
Joined: Aug 03, 2003
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| Posted:
Sep 27, 2004 - 22:18 |
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hehe LOL
Well, I play a bit different depending on opponent, both team, race, coach skill and player skills.
No or few tackles, my blodgers are up front.
And these are my key points to defence.
1) Get a kicker, and place the ball close to ur half. If anything fails ur players will be allover him.
2) Play offensively in defense. Sometimes it costs, but with woodies, u can usually force ur opponent to do some rather scary moves.
3)Get sidestep to both wardancers, as well as ur catchers.
Then make one WD a stripball and one a tackler. Next they should have diving tackle or shadowing. That is a match winner combo.
I usually position my self something like this:
c.......|.............|.......c
..x....|x.w..w.x.|.....x..
........|.............|........
____|_x_x_x_|____
And I can see that my diagram isn´t as fine as MRMOJO´s. 
Could someone plz help me out there??
If I don´t use dots all my space is being ignored. |
Last edited by Topper on %b %27, %2004 - %22:%Sep; edited 1 time in total |
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BadMrMojo
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Sep 27, 2004 - 22:28 |
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| Code: |
c | | c
x |x w w x| x
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____|_x_x_x_|____
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The secret is in the [ code ] tags.
Edit: Catchers are one square farther out? No, they're not. 
Just put [codé] (without the accented E - it's just in there to keep it from working on this text) before your diagram and [/code] after it. |
_________________
Ta-Ouch! of BloodBowl
Condensed Guide for Newbies
Last edited by BadMrMojo on %b %27, %2004 - %22:%Sep; edited 1 time in total |
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