Wombats
Joined: Oct 31, 2003
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  Posted:
Sep 30, 2004 - 01:36 |
 
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I'd like to see FUMBBL become the best source for Blood Bowl strategy both to attract new coaches and just 'cos we rock.
Planning on turning this:
http://fumbbl.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=phpWiki&file=index&pagename=HighElfStrategy
Into something a bit more like this:
http://fumbbl.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=phpWiki&file=index&pagename=LizardmenStrategy
High Elves would be my favourite team after Lizardmen but I am by no means an experienced elf coach so I'll need your input, feedback, criticism, snide comments, etc. to make this good.
Please post tactics/builds/philosophical ponderings here and discuss their merits and drawbacks - I'd rather have a selection of viable options rather than "the one best way".
I'll be adding a draft of the proposed changes to this post and will edit it as we go. First draft will most likely be Colin's stuff rearranged with pretty headings but I hope to butcher some other elven tactics threads as well.
People who contribute major sections will get credited and you can point out to your grandchildren what a drooling nerdburger you are  |
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Last edited by Wombats on %b %30, %2004 - %01:%Sep; edited 1 time in total |
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Jarnageddon
Joined: Nov 04, 2003
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| Posted:
Sep 30, 2004 - 01:48 |
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doubles take frenzy, normal skill take DP, use your imagination as to what the tactics are. |
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Wombats
Joined: Oct 31, 2003
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| Posted:
Sep 30, 2004 - 01:59 |
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I was under the impression Guard was the default choice for elven doubles with the exception of Blitzer positionals...
[74] (High Elf) Dragon Warrior: (34%)Dauntless , (19%)Guard , (19%)Mighty Blow, (15%)Jump Up , (4%)Frenzy
[246](High Elf) Lineman: (77%)Guard , (6%)Dauntless , (5%)Leader , (4%)Mighty Blow, (3%)Jump Up
[134](High Elf) Lion Warrior: (57%)Nerves of Steel, (23%)Jump Up , (7%)Dump Off , (4%)Guard , (2%)Mighty Blow
[84] (High Elf) Phoenix Warrior: (82%)Strong Arm, (10%)Nerves of Steel, (6%)Guard , (1%)Dauntless , (1%)Jump Up
...once you have Strip Ball frenzy won't increase your chances of taking it off the ball carrier and in a cage is asking for a turnover. |
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Jarnageddon
Joined: Nov 04, 2003
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| Posted:
Sep 30, 2004 - 02:03 |
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The frenzy is for knocking lone players down, the DP is for clearing up the mess. Then you can walk your TDs in, helps if you cherry pick other low AV teams. |
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Never hit a man with glasses. Hit him with something bigger and heavier. |
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Michael_Warblade
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Sep 30, 2004 - 02:33 |
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I reccomend a 8,3,4,7 Blodge, Catch, Tackle, Mightyblow Lion Warrior for clearing your backfield
Getting a good thrower is essential for elf teams with 4 ag and surehands, accurate, strongarm he passes at 2+ except at longbomb range where he passes at 3+ fumbles on a 1
Apart from that the key is to have the best linemen you can as 2 skill linemen have blodge or block guard and 3 skill linemen have blodge guard or blodge (pass block or 1 dp or tackle or sidestep)
the higher armor than woodelfs gives you an advantage vs bashing teams as you can stand against them and take a few hits without as much concern for your players. |
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Wombats
Joined: Oct 31, 2003
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| Posted:
Sep 30, 2004 - 02:54 |
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What is your build order for Throwers?
Has anyone experimented with Safe Throw and/or Dump Off before Accurate and Strong Arm? How did it go? |
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Ninja versus Pirate . . . Ninja WINS!
www.realultimatepower.net |
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Wombats
Joined: Oct 31, 2003
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| Posted:
Sep 30, 2004 - 02:59 |
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| LtMonkey wrote: | | The frenzy is for knocking lone players down, the DP is for clearing up the mess. Then you can walk your TDs in, helps if you cherry pick other low AV teams. |
Plus this: Blodge, Catch, Tackle, Mightyblow Lion Warrior (plus Frenzy?)
Will add in a section on "bashifying" your High Elves to inflict casualties.
Requires a lot of skills when you're picking up Blodge first but this is a good path to take for a Lion who just got +S.
How does this compare to the standard Tackle/Strip Ball/Leap/Sidestep Wardancer-style build for Dragon Warriors? Would you only make bashy Sweepers like this after you have a Blitzer with Strip Ball? Is my Strip Ball fetish showing? |
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www.realultimatepower.net |
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Glomp
Joined: Jan 04, 2004
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| Posted:
Sep 30, 2004 - 03:13 |
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Stamp on your own linemen and let them hang around next to 'enemy' dirty players, leave them in a position to get crowdpushed often and only play EMU teams.
Lets face it high elves deserve a kicking... |
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Jarnageddon
Joined: Nov 04, 2003
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| Posted:
Sep 30, 2004 - 03:17 |
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Quod
Joined: May 03, 2004
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| Posted:
Sep 30, 2004 - 04:06 |
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A couple things I like to add, all just my opinion etc etc
Any +agi dude, leap on next skill
Blitzer
normal - dodge, tackle, strip ball, leap, sidestep, sure feet, shadowing
doubles - mighty blow, dauntless, jump up
Thrower
normal - sure hands, accurate, safe throw, block, dodge, sure feet, side step
doubles - strong arm, NoS, jump up
Catcher
normal - block, dodge, sidestep, leap, sure hands, sure feet, pass block
doubles - NoS, jump up, dump off
"passing" catcher for ball retreiving (I find the extra movement can get him there more often than the thrower/s can)
normal - sure hands, leap, block, dodge, sidestep, pass block, sure feet
doubles - NoS, pass, jump up, accurate
"blitzing" catcher for defence
normal - block, dodge, tackle, strip ball, leap, shadowing, sidestep
doubles - mighty blow, dauntless, frenzy, jump up
Linemen - lots of things to do here to help support the team
normal - block, dodge, *utility*, sidestep, sure feet
doubles - 1x Leader, guard, dauntless, jump up
utility - kick, dirty player, tackle, strip ball etc
guard, leap "cage assist" combo
notes:
I've got a fetish for gfi, hence my sure feet everywhere |
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Wombats
Joined: Oct 31, 2003
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| Posted:
Sep 30, 2004 - 05:20 |
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Forgot the whole Strip Ball/Sure Hands thing - I guess even other elves take it to stop Strip Ball.
How about the idea of developing one Dragon Warrior with Tackle first and another with SB? That way you've got all bases covered. |
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www.realultimatepower.net |
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Colin
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Sep 30, 2004 - 13:46 |
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| Wombats wrote: | What is your build order for Throwers?
Has anyone experimented with Safe Throw and/or Dump Off before Accurate and Strong Arm? How did it go? |
Accurate comes first. I know this from experience - I have two High Elf throwers on two different teams; one started with Sure Hands first and one started with Accurate. The one with Accurate performed miles better as the primary offensive thrower of his team than the other one, who cost me several results because of his lack of range- throwers need to make completions to quick advance, and Accurate will ensure he does more reliably. Sure Hands and Safe Throw are the 2nd and 3rd skill picks to go for on the primary thrower, in no particular order.
Dump-Off is only for your secondary thrower, imho, when defending. The ball pops loose but for some reason you can't score that turn - toss in to the Dump-Off thrower and hope for the best - he MUST have Accurate or NoS, and Catch helps. Personally, I'd rather give it to a Blodge Side Stepper, and make them work to get hold of that ball. |
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Trasselkalle
Joined: Sep 06, 2004
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| Posted:
Sep 30, 2004 - 15:49 |
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On the topic of Dump-Off. I've had quite a bit of success (and a ton of laughs and just a few bruises from upset friends) with Elf NoS catchers with Safe Throw (or Dump-Off, but I prefer just tossing the ball to a thrower to maximize the SPPs on all players - I pretty much always pass on my turns in that way) and two Elf throwers with Dump-Off and Safe Throw (and NoS on doubles). It drives ppl mad and requires more than a single blitzer to your ball carrying thrower(s). That opens up the field a bit for your other players also. A good player will however simply stop blitzing your ball carrier and make mashed potatoes out of all possible scorers. In other words - it may be fun and definitely different, but don't overdo it. |
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Markus
Joined: Aug 26, 2003
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| Posted:
Sep 30, 2004 - 16:39 |
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Lineelves:
First game i usually take 11 to start with + 8ff + 3rr
First skill on first lino: kick, followed by block, dodge, sidestep
First skill on second lino: dp, followed by dodge (mobility) block, tackle ...
Next linos: alternate block/dodge for first skill, and vice verso for second skill after that mix tackle, sidestep, diving tackle, passblock
PW:
First skill for first offensive PW: sure hands followed by accurate, safe throw, dodge, block, strong arm on doubles; Exp: sure hands improves a lot to save trr in the beginning picking up the ball, he need all rr they get for blocking with linos w/o block. I prefer sure hands becaus later on it gets more usefull to counter strip ball. Accurate is good for second skill. It won't last long to get to 16 spp and the thrower is mobile enough to ma a quick/short pass to a catcher who can score himself or hand of to anther catcher.
2nd Defensive PW: Blodge, followed by Sure Hands, Tackle, Diving Tackle, Guard on Doubles. Can play on defense, gets his spp easier than linos, and can be a runner on offense, if opponent owns some leaping stripballers (GR/WD/DW/Elvish Blitzers).
I recommend to get the first PW early (after apo/if dw isn't affordable for next game) and the second one when the first is going to hit 31 ssp soon.
DW:
Early on they are the best blitzers for the team. I get them usually after the apo, if affordable.
As long as no doubles are rolled they get dodge, 1 tackle/ 2 strip ball, 1 sidestep/ 2 leap, 1 leap/ 2 sidestep, guard on doubles, second double jump up or mighty blow(on tackler), or frenzy if he got str 4.
First they are the blitzers later on they are giving the needed assists for the lion warrior/hunter.
LW:
I get those after i got apo, 1 PW and both DW. They score more often and therfore develop fast enough to get to/keep up with the rest of the team.
4 catchers are to be developed differently. All defensiv. Elves don't need any offensive skills apart from mobility-skills (dodge/leap) to score. They are fast and strong (for catchers).
1 Hunter/Blitzer: Block followed by Tackle, Dodge, Leap, Mighty blow on Doubles, Jump Up/Frenzy 2nd double
2 Cage preventers: Block followed by Dodge, 1 Shadowing/ 2 Sidestep, 1 Sidestep/ Shadowing, 1 Tackle / 2 Diving Tackle, Guard on doubles, maybe Jump up for 2nd double. Their purpose is to get to the opponents thrower after kicking deep and prevent him from moving or getting rid of the ball and/or building a cage. Appart from AV 7 they are very reliable all around players vs basher and agility teams.
1 Passblocker: Dodge followed by block, passblock, leap, diving tackle, sidestep, guard on doubles.
In the beginning all 4 are very similar (blodgers), thats good because if any of the first two rolls are stat increases the further development can be adjusted. On a MV increase make him the shadower. an ag increase helps the passblocker a lot. a str increase helps the hunter a lot.
Stat increases are generally top for any player. Just turn down a second Ag+ because ag5+dodge is better than ag6 without, ag 6 doesn't help preventing fumbles so any skill should be of better use (ag 6 just helps on int so may be the passblocker could use it after he got passblock). On a double 5 for a lino/dragonwarrior Guard is better than MV 7/8, as long as the guy doesn't have guard. Guard and MV 7 is cool, though.
Generally spread the spp! Elves are suited for that. I try to get one skill on all players before I get the second on any other. |
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Colin
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Oct 01, 2004 - 09:01 |
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When I start a HE team without catchers, I actually don't pass unless I have to. I run the ball, keeping passing option open if it gets tricky. Passing happens when I get some catchers. As the throwers are only 10k more expensive than a linelf, it can be worth having one to start with; he'll earn as many SPPs scoring as throwing, as he is the carrier.
If you don't, then use linelfs to toss the ball, to spread SPPs evenly. Once a thrower does come into the team late, you can't afford to give him Safe Throw only as his third skill, he'll need it to combat Pass Blockers by that stage. Accurate then Safe Throw is the progression in that case, with Sure Hands later.
Ag6 players are priceless in my opinion - give them Dodge as well, they'll use it to make several multi-TZ dodges per turn in crucial situations, fantastic for hard pick-ups, plus they're great with Pass Block. My only Ag6 player, a linelf, won me several games, and was wrapped in cotton wool once the result wasn't in doubt. They're no better at throwing that an Ag5 player, but they will do plenty of passing as they retrieve difficult balls. |
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