Shepherd
Joined: Oct 28, 2004
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 Posted:
Nov 24, 2004 - 20:08 |
 
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Okay, I win a few, I lose a few and I start feeling kind of good about this whole thing.
Then something like this happens, and I can't figure out if I'm the victim of one very bad game, or if I really need some remedial strategy help.
I've tried watching the first half in the replay a couple of times, and I can't figure out where I went wrong. I don't like to fall back on the "bad luck" excuse, so any pointers on picking up my strategy (with line numbers, if possible) would be very, very, very appreciated.
This is a polite request, not a demand -- if nobody has the time to school me, I won't be offended.  |
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A super-hero that always fails his Bonehead roll: MAN-MAN, the averagest hero alive!
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Trekamp
Joined: Dec 15, 2003
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Nov 24, 2004 - 20:17 |
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Shepherd
Joined: Oct 28, 2004
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Nov 24, 2004 - 20:28 |
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I even printed that sucker out and read it on the bus a few times. But there's a big difference between having 40+ ideas rattling around in your skull and being able to pull it all together -- and it's that last bit I'm having a problem with.
If somebody looks at that replay and says "dude, you had a real bad game", I'll be fine with that. But I feel like there's some glaringly obvious precept or strategy that's just whizzing right by me, and I'd like some help in figuring out where my weak points are. |
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A super-hero that always fails his Bonehead roll: MAN-MAN, the averagest hero alive!
Buy Dead Eyes Open, starting July 2005 from Slave Labor Graphics! |
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AFK_Eagle
Joined: Mar 12, 2004
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Nov 24, 2004 - 20:32 |
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If I can figure out how to get the replay to work for me, I'll be happy to check it out when I get home from work. (To this date, I have never been able to spectate/replay games. Something in my comp's workings--maybe has to do with being unable to start games from the website. I have to double-click on my harddrive to start the game, then type in info for teams, etc. Going this way, how do I view a replay/spectator game?) |
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Founder of the E.L.F.--These elves will play anybody! |
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sceadeau
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Nov 24, 2004 - 20:37 |
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Ok, I watched your very first turn. Your very first action of your turn was to throw a meaningless 1 die block away from the ball. Rule 1: don't throw one die blocks unless you NEED them, and if you do throw them, try to do it with someone with block. Here, you did neither.
The general rule is surround the ball with players who are free if you plan on stopping after you pick up the ball. That way, if you fail on your turn before you get a chance to pick up the ball, there are still tackle zones on the ball to stop your opponent from just waltzing in and away with it.
If you want, I can watch the entire thing and take notes at each error, but I'm guessing you will have a lot of these gaffes. |
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Trekamp
Joined: Dec 15, 2003
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Nov 24, 2004 - 20:39 |
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Took a look at your replay, yes, you do make some quite obvious mistakes. All the tricks are in the link I posted, so getting them into your game is only a question of routine and patience. PM me when I´m online or ask around if any coach would like to play a match and point out the errors as you play, I´m sure people will be helpful:) (how naive of me, people will of course exploit you hehe.....oh well)
There really is no other way in BB than learning by doing
*eats some more steroids* |
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-Boredom is not a burden anyone should bear-
Last edited by Trekamp on %b %24, %2004 - %20:%Nov; edited 1 time in total |
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BunnyPuncher
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Nov 24, 2004 - 20:39 |
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Only watched the first few turns...
but a) waaaay too much dodging with ag 3 players.
b) blitz's happen, don't give them free unblocked access to the backfield, especially since you stacked the LOS and still had a 3 square gap in your formation where his wight and ghoul ran through.
c) looks like you started turn1 with a 1d block. I may be wrong about this, but if so never do that  |
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Jinxed
Joined: Jul 04, 2004
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Nov 24, 2004 - 20:47 |
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I think it is a good idea to spectate games.
Find a good coach whon plays with a team you'd like to improve with (as a coach)
Try to find one with approx. the same TR as your team has.
Watch and see how they do things, and equally; what do they never do? |
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Shepherd
Joined: Oct 28, 2004
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Nov 24, 2004 - 21:10 |
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Yeah, no need to take detailed notes.
The rationale behind the one-die block was to hopefully get at least a pushback and start a chain that would break some guys free, IIRC (I don't have the replay open in front of me).
There's so much good advice on this site that it's hard to prioritize it properly, if you know what I mean. But the point that I should have been covering the ball first, and blocking second, is exactly the sort of thing I need to get pounded (literally, in this case!) into my head. I'm starting to realize that I'm being too block-focused and not thinking enough about the ball. |
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A super-hero that always fails his Bonehead roll: MAN-MAN, the averagest hero alive!
Buy Dead Eyes Open, starting July 2005 from Slave Labor Graphics! |
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AFK_Eagle
Joined: Mar 12, 2004
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Nov 24, 2004 - 21:25 |
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A couple of those beastmen are only 1 spp away from their skill. They have agi 3...pass for the point! Preferably not in a crucial situation where it really matters--that's what your agi 4 guy is for. But at the end of a half when you can't score, or if you find yourself with a lot more your guys than the other team, go for it! This'll give you skills sometimes games faster, which will be a huge boon in future games. Spps raise your tr; skills raise your ts. Getting that 1 spp will barely nudge your tr, but raise your ts considerably with the new skill. |
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Listen to Eagle! Eagle is good, Eagle is wise!
Founder of the E.L.F.--These elves will play anybody! |
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MrMojo
Joined: Apr 17, 2004
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Nov 24, 2004 - 21:27 |
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Keep your eye on the ball. stay focused on it. It decides whether you win or not. Of course, if you play bashy teams, it's always a good tactic to maim, kill and slaughter before thinking about the ball. I have problems with my dwarves...really. I somehow need to get it in my mind that they are not elves... that's so hard. And I have never really caged a lot, so my cages end up not being very cagy at all or not in the right place or something like that.
I really need to learn to play dwarven offensive. Defence is pretty straightforward. But they're so slow... |
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Mully
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Nov 24, 2004 - 21:31 |
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The most importtant thing -
all your initial moves should be things that will only fail on a 1-1 (or 1/36th of the time).
Of course these leads to excessive bitching about the 'random' number generator which sema prone to roll double "whatevers" more than it should, |
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BadMrMojo
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Nov 24, 2004 - 21:42 |
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I only watched the first half but there were a few things I spotted that might help.
- Expect any roll you make to come up as a 1. Why? Because it can happen. A mediocre coach will plan for his/her lucky successes. A good coach will plan for his/her unlucky failures. Get those free (ie: no die rolling involved) moves in first and get into position to cover for what could go wrong (ie: your first blown dodge).
- Assists need some assistance. For some reason, when I started it took me an age to get the idea of assists through my thick skull. I have no clue why it was so difficult for me to wrap my feeble intellect around the idea, but I constantly found that good (ok, even mediocre) coaches would get a bunch of 2-die blocks against me every turn and I'd get a couple of 1-die blocks in return. I'm not saying you're that bad off but there are times when you're committing more players than you need to in order to make a block or cancel your opponent's assists. Try to figure out ahead of time how little you can get away with, since every extra man you're throwing into a play is taking away from a play elsewhere.
- Plan your blitz and what you want to accomplish. This is particularly important for Chaos with all those Horns. It's a huge advantage but it can be tough to use it effectively sometimes. While your opponent is wrapping up his turn, try to figure out what the big thing that you want to accomplish on your next turn is going to be. "I want to take out the guys on the top wide zone and get the ball carrier there, behind those other three guys who can form a screen in front of him." With beastmen always remember that, unless you good reason for not doing so, you want to find a way to use that extra point of strength to free up a man who would otherwise be necessary as an assist. Remember to get your running step in there first!
- What B.P. said.
- Prioritize your chances. In this case, you were playing up a bit, so you had to take some chances. The tough part is figuring what order in which to take them. It's not the sort of thing you can cover with a blanket statement like, "Always do the most statistically likely actions first", since sometimes you need to do the actions which are less likely, but more important to the play. This, more than anything else, determines the "style" of a good coach. Do you opt more for the safer route or the riskier, more rewarding one? It's all personal preference so long as you manage to remember that the unimportant, risky moves come last. If you have a single, 3+ roll that will determine the outcome of your entire turn (like a pickup, for example), I'd personally be much more inclined to get that taken care of before a less important but safer 2-die block. Some will disagree... that's the basic component of coaching style. As a small addition to this one, sometimes you have to know when not to move someone too...
- "Smart if you can. Stupid if you must." I just love that phrase... I, personally, prefer to phrase it slightly differently for BB. Smart first, then Stupid. This is primarily a reminder of the first point, with the extra addition that sometimes you just have to know when to try the 5+ pickup, 3+ dodge, 2 GFIs and long bomb. Preferably, laughing all the while regardless of the outcome. |
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sceadeau
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Nov 24, 2004 - 22:03 |
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Other important things to note...blocking is not the be all end all of bloodbowl. A lot of coaches run around getting two die blocks all over the place on my guys, only to not have enough bodies to do the useful things. What MrMojo said about doing things that are _important_ first is really a fundamental that needs to get drilled in. One of the reasons I do surround the ball is because I'm expecting that if I make a die roll, I will fail it. So I protect against unexpected turnovers, then go ahead with an order (easy important, hard important, easy unimportant) I see a lot of coaches do everything perfectly, then roll a random 1db on some guy and fall down at the end...figuring hey, it's the end of my turn, who cares if I fail?
You need to understand the importance of tacklezones. If one of your men falls down because you did something stupid, you have freed up to 8 squares on the board your opponent can now move through without having to make die rolls. |
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Shepherd
Joined: Oct 28, 2004
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| Posted:
Nov 24, 2004 - 22:22 |
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I'm going to look over that replay again tonight with all this in mind. I think the best way to learn is to (a) play against better coaches and (b) figure out how you screwed up, and this is a definite asset in (b). Thanks a lot, guys. |
_________________
A super-hero that always fails his Bonehead roll: MAN-MAN, the averagest hero alive!
Buy Dead Eyes Open, starting July 2005 from Slave Labor Graphics! |
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