Jackbedead
Joined: Mar 01, 2004
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  Posted:
Dec 02, 2004 - 02:13 |
 
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Here's a team idea - If anyone knows anything about Warhammer fantasy beastmen they'll understand all of the reasong behind this. This is also tweaked a bit from my last post.
Beastmen:
....................................|mv| st |ag|av| skills
0-1 Beastlord: 120000.| 5 | 3 | 2 | 9 | horns, dauntless, frenzy -G,S,Ph
0-4 beastman: 60000..| 6 | 3 | 3 | 8 | horns - G,S,Ph
0-12 ungor: 45000......| 5 | 2 | 2 | 7 | stunty, tackle - A
60000 reroll
Apoth - yes
Wizard - yes
So much of stunty is dodging, having a team with very weak agility and no dodge, but giving them tackle seems like a very fair trade off. The team carries a lot of strength 3 guys, but there's still no big guys. So again that seems to go along with game balance.
Fluff:
When word reached the Beastmen heards of the upper hills that their own kin were participating in Bloodbowl matches the elder Beastlords wanted to participate. Not wanting to have their heards slaughtered in the arena they wisely chose to field their runt breed, the ungors.
Ungors are not as strong, tough or intelligent as the other beastmen. They are physically smaller and their horns are almost always less impressive and numerous than the larger gor and the even larger bestigors. Ungor are extremely cruel and spiteful creatures, taking out their jealously of the Gors on foes in battle, captives, Brays (those Beastmen without any horns) or anything else incapable of putting up much of a fight. In battle the Ungors join the Gors in unruly herds, charging towards the enemy with thoughts only of rending them apart. The Gors always push their way to the front of a fight, but the ungors are just as viscious. Often tackling their opponents to the ground and tearing them apart. If not for the fearless leadership of their battle hardened Beastlord the ungors wouldn't form a solid team and instead run murderousely into harms way, something they often times are not tough enough to endure. |
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hunter
Joined: Aug 11, 2003
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| Posted:
Dec 02, 2004 - 02:55 |
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Not a bad idea, IMO, but a bit overpowered. Having 5 ST 3 players, all with G, S, & Ph access and AG 3 on four of them, is too strong, despite the rest of the team being stunty. I think the Beastlord is fine (although quite similar to a Troll Slayer, and perhaps too expensive), but 0-2 Beastmen might be a better amount of those. You're going to use them as your primary ball handlers and blitzers, and can set up a ST 3 cage all around with four available... no stunty team is very well prepared to beat that. The Ungors would be used to tie everyone else up, and tackle will really screw anyone trying to dodge away to attack the cage or ballcarrier.
The Ungors should lose a point of AV probably, and I have great qualms about them starting with tackle. I would feel better if they were ST 1 and AV 6. Also, I think the starting prices are always supposed to be in multiples of 10... i.e., 40K or 50K, but not 45K. I'd lean towards 40K if they were 5 1 2 6 stunty, tackle (A).
I'd also lose the wizard access, but that's primarily because I don't think wizards belong in stunty (can cause too much devastation with a single blow).
~hunter |
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Jackbedead
Joined: Mar 01, 2004
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| Posted:
Dec 02, 2004 - 04:17 |
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The beastlord is expensive because he's not necessary. I do agree that four beastmen is a bit excessive because they can be powerful ball handlers. But having just 3 strength 3 players doesn't amount nearly to the power of other teams that can field multiple trolls, ogres, and minotaurs. Maybe changing beastmen to 0-3 would be more fair, but I liked having an even amount. It just works better on the pitch. My original idea had 1 mino, but I didn't think they needed it at all. Maybe two beastmen, then two specialty gors like centigors or pestigors. Or just beef up the beastlord while reducing his armor so they can't get too tough, and reduce the number of beastmen to 2.
more like:
....................................|mv| st |ag|av| skills
0-1 Beastlord: 140000.| 6 | 4 | 3 | 8 | horns, dauntless, frenzy, jump up -G,S,Ph
Anyone have any other thoughts? |
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Jackbedead
Joined: Mar 01, 2004
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| Posted:
Dec 02, 2004 - 06:07 |
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Does this look better?
....................................|mv| st |ag|av| skills
0-1 Beastlord: 120000.| 6 | 4 | 3 | 8 | horns, dauntless, frenzy, jump up -G,S,Ph
0-2 beastman: 60000..| 6 | 3 | 3 | 8 | horns - G,S,Ph
0-16 ungor: 50000......| 5 | 2 | 2 | 7 | stunty, tackle - A
60000 reroll |
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Omightyme
Joined: Oct 22, 2004
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| Posted:
Dec 02, 2004 - 06:28 |
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id make two sorts of ungors.
one with tackle max here should be 4 and
1-12 normal ungors without tackle but with ag 3
0-4 ungor: 50000......| 5 | 2 | 2 | 7 | stunty, tackle - A
0-12 call 'em whatever you wanrt: 50000......| 5 | 2 | 3 | 7 | stunty - A, Phys |
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Tinkywinky
Joined: Aug 25, 2003
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| Posted:
Dec 02, 2004 - 07:25 |
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A team full of tacklers would be the bashiest one to ever set foot in stunty. Compare it to strigoyans, the big thing with them is that 4 of their stunty players may get block/tackle and they also have the worst negatrait to offset this advantage. ST 3 ball carriers in stunty is just way too good and stunty teams aren't equipped to stop this. You understand that those block/tackle/MB beastmen are just as deadly as big guys with the difference that they have no negatrait, can use rerolls and are able to run the ball?
0-16 ungors (5236, tackle)
0-2 minotaur
Would be a more balanced roster. Stunty teams should consist of big guys, secret weapons and stunties. General weak teams don't fit into the play-style of stunty. Av 6 is needed to make sure that it will be hard to level up and keep the dodgers. The thing with this team would be that they kill a lot but they also die a lot (because the lack of dodge). |
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Jackbedead
Joined: Mar 01, 2004
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| Posted:
Dec 02, 2004 - 07:41 |
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The idea behind it was to not have a big guy, but still have the muscle. I wanted most of the stunty little ungors to have low agility and no dodge to make them very poor at moving around. This would mean they would have to plow through their opponents. So.... tackle. Then there's the problem with big guys and beasts of nurgle getting in the way. So, I gave them a couple str 3 guys, and another one that's dauntless. Yeah these little guys can tear up other stuntys, but they have no real power against things like big guys and other strong players. Even with two beastmen. They also don't have the mobility, besides a standard movement of 5.
I play Strigs. I know how powerful a blodging tackler can be in stunty, and the answer is not very. With so many tricks from each team I think just giving them a couple strength 3 guys and tackle would balance them out enough. They still have lower agility than almost every other team. And that's what I want. |
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SubSonic
Joined: Aug 22, 2003
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| Posted:
Dec 02, 2004 - 07:47 |
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but the real problem is that beastmen and the beastlord has ag3 and mv6. They will be used as main ball carriers, and they will be too efficient in the job. Especially if the actual ungors have ag2. Even with smaller ag they can pick big hand and be used as a ball carrier that way. With no negatrait/big guy trait its just too good. |
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Mnemon
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Dec 02, 2004 - 08:53 |
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Jackbedhead - once they reduced the other team significantly enough (and they can with tackle, easily) even the big guys are not a problem anymore. Big guys are helpless once their stunty assists are gone.
-Mnemon |
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Jackbedead
Joined: Mar 01, 2004
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| Posted:
Dec 03, 2004 - 04:54 |
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I was playtesting this roster, and I think it works really well, and balanced. With the 1 agility on the ungors it makes them poor at moving around, and even with the beastman ball carriers you still have to cage with the ungors and run across the field. Big guy don't have too much trouble breaking it either.
....................................|mv| st |ag|av| skills
0-1 Beastlord: 120000| 6 | 4 | 3 | 8 | horns, dauntless, frenzy -G,S,Ph
0-2 beastman: 60000.| 6 | 3 | 3 | 8 | horns - G,S,Ph
0-16 ungor: 50000......| 5 | 2 | 1 | 7 | stunty, tackle - A |
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Jackbedead
Joined: Mar 01, 2004
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| Posted:
Dec 03, 2004 - 05:07 |
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I'm really trying to push this team because I would rather see this implemented than all the other crazy ideas that are so far from anything even related to the Blood Bowl universe. There is no beastman team, yet there are beastmen. I don't see why chaos gets to use their name and field players from a different army all together. It only makes sense to use them in stunty to reflect that they are subordinate and need chaos warriors to fill in their shortcommings to play in the normal league. If someone doesn't like my list, that's fine. I just thought tackle was a novel concept and something that was actually different from the current teams. I also don't like the mass amount of big guys and secret weapons all the teams seem to have to use. I'd like to see a team function withought them. If someone has an idea for a Beastmen team, or changes to this one, please post it. |
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Jackbedead
Joined: Mar 01, 2004
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| Posted:
Dec 03, 2004 - 06:44 |
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Okay, how about substituting the beastmen for ungors and making brays the weak link?
....................................|mv| st |ag|av| skills
0-1 Beastlord: 100000| 6 | 4 | 3 | 8 | horns, dauntless, frenzy -G,S,Ph
0-4 Ungor: 50000.......| 6 | 2 | 3 | 7 | horns, stunty, tackle - G,S
0-16 Bray: 40000.......| 5 | 2 | 3 | 7 | stunty - A |
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SubSonic
Joined: Aug 22, 2003
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| Posted:
Dec 03, 2004 - 07:48 |
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stunty with no dodge will get killed too fast. I would also drop beastlord ag to at least 2. Starting with 4 tackle players sounds a bit too strong...maybe  |
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Jackbedead
Joined: Mar 01, 2004
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| Posted:
Dec 03, 2004 - 08:12 |
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Those 4 ungors are powerful, there's no doubt about that. This team isn't meant to be dodging around like the other teams, they're meant to plow through them, and they can do it. That stunty Ungor is devoid of any agility skills. Something a bit more unique with stunty players. |
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Tinkywinky
Joined: Aug 25, 2003
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| Posted:
Dec 03, 2004 - 08:15 |
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| Quote: | | I also don't like the mass amount of big guys and secret weapons all the teams seem to have to use |
Maybe you shouldn't play stunty leeg then?
I checked your strigoyan team, you have one block/tackle vampling. How does that compare to a team full of tackle? I don't mind the tackle idea but they need a serious drawback to compensate for it (and they can't be allowed general or strength access!). You need to focus your team design on the stunties. A S3 ball carrier is too strong, not to mention S4! If you take a look at your last roster it's pretty much a strigoyan team with higher armour, more starting skills and no negatraits. |
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