| Poll |
| What do I buy for my team? |
| Chaos Warrior: the Big Guys can wait... |
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62% |
[ 32 ] |
| Troll: you do need that regenerate! |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
| Minotaur: nothing better for fun and maiming your opponent |
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13% |
[ 7 ] |
| RR's: you never have enough of them! |
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19% |
[ 10 ] |
| Something else: ??? |
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3% |
[ 2 ] |
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| Total Votes : 51 |
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mutescreamer
Joined: Apr 09, 2004
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 Posted:
Dec 24, 2004 - 11:26 |
 
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not only does foul appearance give you a one in 6 chance of avoiding being blocked (i'm not hitting something as ugly as you.....my gloves are too nice)
but it also hinders nearby peoples ability to catch and throw the ball. |
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nickb2612
Joined: Mar 25, 2004
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| Posted:
Dec 24, 2004 - 11:27 |
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FA is a great skill for ruining passing games as well as giving added protection to your players. There's nothing more satisfying than watching your opponent wasting their blitz by failling the FA roll!
It's great for the fluff purposes as well. Especially for a nurgle based team, although now you can actually get nurgle rotters, i still feel nurgle based chaos teams can be really fun. |
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mutescreamer
Joined: Apr 09, 2004
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| Posted:
Dec 24, 2004 - 11:33 |
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and more reliable (hurrah for the apoth) |
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Bascrebolder
Joined: Nov 19, 2004
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| Posted:
Dec 24, 2004 - 13:53 |
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What about the chaos warriors. So far I think I will give them block,guard and MB and cla/rsc/SF/Tentacles on doubles. This will make them more bashy than the ball-handling beasts.
What are your oppinions? |
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AFK_Eagle
Joined: Mar 12, 2004
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| Posted:
Dec 25, 2004 - 00:06 |
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I've seen diving tackle used extremely effectively on black orcs, so I'd think the same could be useful for cw's as well. If you have tentacles instead of claw/rsc, you'll get more players willing to play ya, but you'll still find your cas rates go up. Why? Because you won't have to waste a blitz with that player to hit somebody--he'll almost always have somebody fouled in his tentacles in easy arm reach!
The agi 4 guy I would've made the passer, but since you have another to fill that role, I'd make him your pass blocker. Give him passblock on normal roll (agi 4 lets him dodge into position, chance at making the grab) and then FA on doubles. This fouls up either the thrower and/or receiver, maybe both, increasing odds of them fumbling the pass/catch. |
_________________
Listen to Eagle! Eagle is good, Eagle is wise!
Founder of the E.L.F.--These elves will play anybody! |
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Macavity
Joined: Nov 23, 2004
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| Posted:
Dec 25, 2004 - 00:38 |
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If you ever roll + STR on a CW get Break Tackle. You might not get the ball to him too often, but when you do (and on touchbacks) it's hilarious Foul Appearance also get's more useful with higher strength. Why? you ask. When he's had to get 3 or 4 players with TZs on the guy to get his 2 Dice block, and then the guy who does the block fails the FA roll, you just wasted half his team's turns! It's hilarious!! I personally say, get as ball-handling as you can. Chaos will naturally get bashy, you want to have something else to offer. |
_________________
When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up. -C.S. Lewis |
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SnakeSanders
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Dec 25, 2004 - 10:15 |
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Do you guys ever listen??? 
I found a great chaos article on Talkbloodbowl.com and put it in the user guide!
This is it btw...
| Quote: | Coach Balrog's Guide to Chaos
Looking around on the net you can find lots of strategy articles for playing the Chaos team. Unfortunately none of these have been updated to the new BB2k1 rules, so I think it's time we revisited the Chaos team and see what options the new rules offer us.
The Chaos Blood Bowl team has the well earned reputation of being one of the strongest teams around; all their players have access to Strength skills, and four of them start with Strength 4. With the addition of big guys we now get a Strength 5 player thrown into the mix. However the new rules have also nerfed the most popular Chaos strategy: Pro + anything which modifies armour or injury (as these cannot be rerolled). Other important changes include: -Leader is a trait (available only on a doubles skills roll) -It takes 16 SPPs for a player to get his second skill -Mighty Blow and Dirty Player have been tweaked to be less powerful -IGMEOY and no casualty SPPs make fouling a less viable strategy -Star Players can only be freebooted (a big change to the Chaos rosters of old, as Chaos has the largest star player selection available).
All this makes the old Chaos strategies obsolete, and therefore we must adapt (fortunately Tzeentch is there to help us out). The following strategy is for league play (as opposed to tournament play) and is based on my belief that the Chaos team can be extremely versatile and skilled, even early on.
STARTING ROSTER:
My initial starting roster with Chaos was: 11 Beastmen 4 Rerolls 6 Fan Factor
Although in hindsight I think that this line up might offer a stronger start, though the loss of that fourth reroll can be detrimental (but you do get that 9 FF, which is very nice): 10 Beastmen 1 Chaos Warrior 3 Rerolls 9 Fan Factor
It is extremely tempting to start with the uber team of 4 Chaos Warriors, 7 Beastmen, 4 Fan Factor and 2 Rerolls, but the lack of any skills on your players will hurt and you won't have any rerolls to fall back on.
The reason I chose to go with 11 beastmen lies in the marvel that 4 Rerolls brings to the Chaos team: reliability in movement and ball handling. In any game of luck the dice can ruin a perfectly laid out plan, this is especially true in Blood Bowl. Many teams can rely on their position players to provide the necessary skills to twist fate their way; Chaos however has no players with such skills, but extra rerolls can go a long way towards remedying the situation. Also, extra rerolls are a great starting base for a team that plans on being around for a long time.
GAME STRATEGY AND DEVELOPMENT:
The key to winning early on is to use the versatility of your Beastmen to your advantage.
1- Every turn one Beastman will have Strength 4. The blitz must be one of your main priorities when planning out your turn, often it is better to make it early on, to make sure that it gets used before a turnover occurs. The best use for the blitz is targetting position players on the other team (get rid of those pesky guys with skills, who do they think they are anyways?) You can also use it to disrupt the opponent's positioning and frustrate his plans for his next turn.
2- Your Beastmen are anonymous. No player on your team stands out as a target. This means you can safely leave some Beastmen roaming around by themselves, and should they get singled out then you can always blitz your way to safety with Strength 4.
3- Spread your SPPs around. It's generally agreed that having five players with two skills (80 SPPs total) is better than having one player with five skills and four with no skills. This is especially true on the Chaos team because of the lack of positional players. You should aim for having 5-6 Beastmen with one skill each by game 5. Whenever possible carefully choose who will pass and score on each drive; a good example is to have a player with 5 SPPs pick up the ball and make a quick pass to the player who you want to score. That's 4 SPPs that are basically assigned by you, use them wisely. Be careful though, don't go overboard with the passing, we're not elves (those pansies).
4- Choose the right skills. Early skill progression for Beastmen is pretty straight forward. On a normal roll (2-9, no doubles) the first skill should be Block. No skill is overall more useful in my opinion; Sure Hands looks appealing but remember that you have 4 rerolls, and having a player with Sure hands makes him a ball hog, thus countering point 3 above. On a doubles roll you have several options: Claw, Razor Sharp Claws, Big Hand, or Dodge. Claw is my personal favourite; RSC is nice but really annoying when you fail to break armour; Big Hand is great for getting the ball away from your opponent; Dodge is great for players you want to turn into blitzers (in combination with Block). Stat increases are always nice, especially an Agility increase as it gives you elf agility with beastman strength, very cool.
5- Master the 2-1 win. Here's the basic game plan: Kick to your opponent and let him score early, concentrate those first few turns on beating up his players and getting them out of the game (target those with low armour first and truly troublesome players second). You need to put some pressure on the ball carrier to make sure he scores quickly though, as you'll need the rest of the half to tie the game up. Once your opponent has scored you should hopefully be up a man or two. Take your time and score on turn 8, all the meanwhile beating up more of his players on the way. Then when you get the ball in the second half use all 8 turns to make your way downfield and score on your turn 8, thus ensuring a 2-1 win. Of course things rarely work out this way, and some improvisation will always be necessary. Don't be afraid to aggressively go for the opponent's ball carrier if the opportunity arises, your Strength 4 blitz is especially useful here. Should your opponent choose to kick to you then you need to just apply the above strategy backwards: take the entire first half to score, let him score early in the second half and then finish it up by scoring late in the game; however this is more risky. When you have the ball you must defend the ball carrier above all else, making a cage is always a good idea, and be sure to restrict your opponents movement by placing lone beastmen in key positions to maximise the spread of tackle zones.
EDIT: ADD-ON No. 1 SPENDING YOUR MONEY:
So, you've hopefully won your first game and now you have some money to spend. This is one of the tricky parts of playing this team. First consider what you want to purchase for your team: 4 Chaos Warriors @ 100k each 1 Big Guy (probably an Ogre) @ 120k 1 Apothecary @ 50k
Common wisdom would say to purchase the apothecary first, but who said anything about Chaos being wise? If you think you can get away with it, save your money from your first game and buy a Chaos Warrior after your second game. Although it's risky, getting that 1st Chaos Warrior is a huge boost for the team, and can make the difference between a win and a loss in game 3. In any case your purchasing progression should hopefully go something like this:
Game - Purchase 1 - nothing 2 - Chaos Warrior 3 - Apothecary 4 - Nothing 5 - Chaos Warrior
This obviously assumes you've been lucky enough to not lose any players to injury. Replacing Beastmen with Chaos Warriors might not always be an option, so don't be afraid to purchase another Beastman to replace a dead one - remember, your Beastmen are your most important players.
Well, there you have it. Hopefully it'll be of some use to those crazy Chaos coaches out there. This is just the first part, follow up articles will be posted as my team progresses. And remember, even the best laid out plans can go to heck when you start rolling double skulls in sequence... |
Now this wasnt written by me but i find it a prety solid guide to playing chaos! |
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sk8bcn
Joined: Apr 13, 2004
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| Posted:
Dec 25, 2004 - 13:05 |
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hey you already posted the link to the guide! |
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Aequitas
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Dec 25, 2004 - 13:43 |
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| Bascrebolder wrote: | Aequitas my sure-hands/pass guy is not the same as my AG4 guy (unfortunately) but both are still rather usefull. Big Hand is really nice on the SH player because he needs a 3+ to pick up normally. And can pass wit a RR. My AG4 guy can than be a receiver...
More comments on my team and how to progress them are highly welcome! |
Sorry, I didn't actually look at your team. I was just responding to someone else regarding the use of +AG/Big Hand. It's a gamebreaker IMO, as I've won/tied many games with that player alone. But remember.. confidence is key! |
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The goggles, they do nothing! o_0 |
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Lamoron
Joined: Apr 21, 2004
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| Posted:
Dec 26, 2004 - 23:03 |
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I would develop two Chaos Warriors to be offensive, with all the killer skills you can lay your hands on, and two to play defensive play with Foul Appearance & Tentacles where you can.
For an allround team, I'd suggest a healthy mix of skills on the beastmen, with at least one Strip Baller, a Kicker and a Dirty Player.
There are never enough doubles to satisfy the need, but at least one Beastman with Big Hand and a couple with Foul Appearance will assure you some say in the ballgame as well.
Most Chaos Teams on fumbbl (with a few noticable exceptions) are playing to win, so browse through the top Chaos teams, and see what they have done with their teams. |
_________________
"When in trouble, when in doubt, run in circles, scream and shout" |
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Bascrebolder
Joined: Nov 19, 2004
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| Posted:
Dec 27, 2004 - 11:31 |
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First of all thanks for all the replies!
So far it seems most people agree on the Chaos Warrior as the most sensible future purchase for this team. I guess I will follow the advice and go for a CW followed up later by a minotaur which seems to be the strongest Big Guy in your opinions. More explanations on why the Mino is better than a Troll are highly welcome though.
As far as skills are concerned: I like the idea of AFK Eagle to develop my AG4 beast into an annoying pass-blocker with Pass-Block (duh) and hopefully foul appearance. This seems to be a good combination.
For my Chaos Warriors I will split doubles between, Claw/RSC for one or max. 2 guys and tentacles/ FA for the other two/three. I guess I prefer tentacles over diving tackle though… On doubles my Beastmen will get ball-handling skills and normal skills without them. I will not take DP's because I do not like fouling and I wonder whether kick is really usefull this early. I guess block, tackle and guard are needed more badly right now.
Another question: at what level do Chaos teams get competitive? At my current level (tr165). They are still weak compared to other teams at same TR. Mostly due to lack of normal skills such as block, tackle and guard. |
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sk8bcn
Joined: Apr 13, 2004
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| Posted:
Dec 27, 2004 - 12:44 |
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| Lamoron wrote: | I would develop two Chaos Warriors to be offensive, with all the killer skills you can lay your hands on, and two to play defensive play with Foul Appearance & Tentacles where you can.
For an allround team, I'd suggest a healthy mix of skills on the beastmen, with at least one Strip Baller, a Kicker and a Dirty Player.
There are never enough doubles to satisfy the need, but at least one Beastman with Big Hand and a couple with Foul Appearance will assure you some say in the ballgame as well.
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damn that's a lot of doubles. He he, in a few years, in div x (if you find games-and choose non bashy teams) maybe you will achieve it. |
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Lamoron
Joined: Apr 21, 2004
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| Posted:
Dec 27, 2004 - 13:50 |
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Well, since I only play tabletop that will be a bit hard... but I am nearing my game nr. 100 in tabletop, and have two teams with about 30 games each, so I think I can get a decent amount of skills even in tabletop, and people can definatly get it on fumbbl.
My TT Chaos Team with 13 games has 20 skills, and I have been pretty lucky so far with 4 doubles, a +ST and a +AG. My Orc TT team has 29 games, and most players have 2-4 skills, so I don't think my goals are so unrealistic...
Besides that, Offensive Chaos Warriors can be offensive with Mighty Blow, Tackle, Multiple Block as well, maybe I was not very clear on that in my post  . I thought it obvious that very few players will roll more than one or two doubles in their time, so I only mentioned what I would take on doubles. |
_________________
"When in trouble, when in doubt, run in circles, scream and shout" |
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Seppuku
Joined: Oct 12, 2003
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| Posted:
Dec 27, 2004 - 13:59 |
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| Sparticus wrote: | | .... 2ndly u need to have some way to effectivly deal with elfs.... claw,RSC isnt the answer...tackle is the answer |
Erm, yeah, OK, skill the team for effectiveness against elves...they sure will be playing lots, and lots, and lots of elves...  |
_________________
Life ain't scary...making a 2+ Dodge with my luck...THAT's scary... |
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Lamoron
Joined: Apr 21, 2004
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| Posted:
Dec 27, 2004 - 14:01 |
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On the topic of Big Guys, the new rules review 2004 changed the Big Guys drasticly, with the loss of general access.
Before I would have gone with the Minotaur as all time killing machine, with mutations, frenzy and horns, but without Block they are a reliability and will cause turnovers very often with their Frenzy.
The Troll is the most durable Big Guy. With AV9 and Regenerate he can stay in the fight, but Really Stupid can be a problem on a team, and Chaos has no "extra" players (like a thrower, Goblin etc.) to accompany the slow Troll.
The Ogre would be my choice now, durable with AV9, only Bonehead, MA5, and doesn't need help or your Blitz-move to get of the ground when he goes down.
Hope that helps. |
_________________
"When in trouble, when in doubt, run in circles, scream and shout" |
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