| Poll |
| How do you feel about ageing |
| Absolutely HATE it! Let's get rid of it... |
|
48% |
[ 116 ] |
| Keep it. It keeps the ballance right... |
|
47% |
[ 114 ] |
| I don't know/care |
|
3% |
[ 9 ] |
|
| Total Votes : 239 |
|
nazerdemus
Joined: Nov 02, 2004
|
 Posted:
Dec 30, 2004 - 14:10 |
 
|
| Mirascael wrote: | | I won't play Blood bowl again as long as so-called "ageing" (which it has actually nothing to do with) remains a part of the game. It's simply too lame. |
Why dont you stop "playing" real life until they find a cure for aging  . I mean life is pretty lame - your born ,you grow, you stop growing ,you die
Oh yeah is ageing "actually" random or is the random generater not random ?
And why were on the topic "Is fouling okay or just for lame people who cant play proper ? |
|
|
quota
Joined: Nov 24, 2003
|
| Posted:
Dec 30, 2004 - 14:17 |
|
| nazerdemus wrote: | | Tricktickler wrote: | I dont know why people still are discussing this when I already have posted the best solution in my first reply.
Solution: remove aging and increase the chance of getting permanent injuries from casulties.
There isnt much more to add... someone should forward it to games workshop though. |
I think the reason people ignored this was because it was a s$%t idea |
Although I would probably have said it a bit differently, I must agree. The idea does not hold true, and would probably only lead to even more seperation between elf teams and bashy teams. |
_________________
the only good undead is a dead, uhm, undead... |
|
Seppuku
Joined: Oct 12, 2003
|
| Posted:
Dec 30, 2004 - 14:47 |
|
| JanMattys wrote: | May I ask one thing, Seppuku?
What's the point in playing TR 300+ Elves?. |
The question isn't WHY play high TR, it's WHY NOT? If you have Skaven, or other Elves...there's always Tackle and rolling POW's you know. And I'm not advocating Elves at 300+TR vs Khemri, etc etc, but surely it'd be at least as entertaining playing a similar team at 300+ than 125??? I don't understand why there's an opinion that playing a highly skilled team vs another would be any less fun than an equally crap, unskilled one. No/low skills makes you rely on luck mainly. I'm not lucky. I prefer to have skills to better cope with crap dice. I don't see why there should be a cap, and no-one has offered a good reason, apart from 'balance.' WTF is 'balance'? It's not a question of TR, as everyone plays 100+ tr, and i'd say +/- 40 tr at low levels can produce far more 'UNbalance' than at higher tr's. There simply is no 'balance' arguement, because coaches know if they play high elves vs high chaos, they could get mauled. Some would relish the challenge. They certainly can't get unbalanced games, because of the +/- 40 rule.
What purpose has aging, apart from keeping the same team turning players over? None. Why are players needed to be artificially turned over? None. It's pointless. All it really does is get teams stagnating, then retired. I would say most coaches create teams with less fluff because of it, because most teams (unless you are either mad for every team to be around forever regardless of injuries, or just plain mad) will be retired before the coach is happy with the team, and so attached to it they want to really fluff it out. If you're team isn't going to get past 30 or 40 games, is there much point to creating team histories that don't live long?
Regarding the aging rolls, get rid. Full stop. There is enough damage to be done on the pitch. To coin the age-old phrase "it's called BLOODbowl." It's not "woke up this morning, ate my museli, choked on a raisin, coughed and pulled a ribbowl" is it? The longer an individual player plays, the greater the chance he'll get injured, or deaded. Khemri, Chaos etc are good for that, so some peeps think. Even if it's just elfball games at high tr, that 1db skull your oppo rolls against that 119spp Wardancer of yours might just get him killed...
So, please, someone spell out simply, what is/are the reasons for aging, apart from screwing team development, and thereby stopping most coaches enjoy the teams they build even more than they do now? |
_________________
Life ain't scary...making a 2+ Dodge with my luck...THAT's scary... |
|
mutescreamer
Joined: Apr 09, 2004
|
| Posted:
Dec 30, 2004 - 15:00 |
|
|
Seppuku
Joined: Oct 12, 2003
|
| Posted:
Dec 30, 2004 - 15:08 |
|
| quota wrote: | | nazerdemus wrote: | | Tricktickler wrote: | I dont know why people still are discussing this when I already have posted the best solution in my first reply.
Solution: remove aging and increase the chance of getting permanent injuries from casulties.
There isnt much more to add... someone should forward it to games workshop though. |
I think the reason people ignored this was because it was a s$%t idea |
Although I would probably have said it a bit differently, I must agree. The idea does not hold true, and would probably only lead to even more seperation between elf teams and bashy teams. |
And? So what if 'that' coach won't play 450 tr Chaos with his 430 tr High Elves? So what if bashy teams can only play against each other? It goes on now, and would do so even more at higher tr's. SO DAMNED WHAT? It's better to have the CHOICE to play other similar teams than to get so frustrated at aging niggles you retire the team. If this increases the gap between elfball and bashy, who cares? A lot of elf coaches won't play bashy AT ANY TIME, and more get that attitude as tr goes up. It happens, and the only way to stop it would be to abolish what fumbbl is about, playing the games you can, when you can. Again, it's called CHOICE. Surely, in a sensible world, it'd be up to the coach to decide if he wants to retire the team, possibly through lack of games. He may have a squad full of RSC...he might take note, and develop his next team differently to get less refusals.
EDIT: Oh, and to my mind, "Solution: remove aging and increase the chance of getting permanent injuries from casulties" is amply taken care of with that really rare thing...the skill roll. Chance of injury from a 2db with no skills vs a 2db with Block, MB, Claw??? I think the latter would be a tad higher...  |
_________________
Life ain't scary...making a 2+ Dodge with my luck...THAT's scary... |
|
Ash
Joined: Feb 03, 2004
|
| Posted:
Dec 30, 2004 - 15:18 |
|
hehe
first...
| Flix wrote: | | Aging ist perfect but teams need to get more money , because if you got a team with high TR you got many players with much SPP and this players age more often but you wont get the money to replace them. i think that is a problem a Rules Review hd to deal with as soon as posible. |
no it s not. It s only a question of management... try to keep your TR low when you are short in FF... let him grow where you have good FF... that s all...
second...
| Seppuku wrote: | | No/low skills makes you rely on luck mainly. I'm not lucky. I prefer to have skills to better cope with crap dice. |
So you prefer to rely on luck for skill roll... that s all 
Honnestly, playing team at TR < 150 is not only about luck! you know, you re not forced to try every possible block when you re elf... bloodbowl can be more a game of position and tackle zone than a game of block... |
_________________
Ash |
|
Seppuku
Joined: Oct 12, 2003
|
| Posted:
Dec 30, 2004 - 15:19 |
|
| mutescreamer wrote: | | How do you pull a rib? |
I was trying to point out there's allsorts of things that can happen. Alan Hinkes (a yorkshireman and mountaineer) was eating a chapati when climbing K2 (hardest mountain in the world to ascend). Flour caused him to cough, and he broke a rib. Got helicoptered off.
Odds things happen. Like a Tree rolling 3 skulls and RIP'ing itself. At higher tr, the skills earned will make injuries more likely, so why create them? |
_________________
Life ain't scary...making a 2+ Dodge with my luck...THAT's scary... |
|
Seppuku
Joined: Oct 12, 2003
|
| Posted:
Dec 30, 2004 - 15:23 |
|
| Ash wrote: |
| Seppuku wrote: | | No/low skills makes you rely on luck mainly. I'm not lucky. I prefer to have skills to better cope with crap dice. |
So you prefer to rely on luck for skill roll... that s all
Honnestly, playing team at TR < 150 is not only about luck! you know, you re not forced to try every possible block when you re elf... bloodbowl can be more a game of position and tackle zone than a game of block... |
I'm unlucky. I'm n00b, but i'm not stupid. I try to make all non-roll moves first, then essential rolls, then go about 2d blocks, dodges etc, reducing down ro 1db's if essential. I'm not good enough to win games without making blocks, but i'd put money on no coach taking a 2db with an unskilled player over the same situation with a player who has block.  |
_________________
Life ain't scary...making a 2+ Dodge with my luck...THAT's scary... |
|
mutescreamer
Joined: Apr 09, 2004
|
| Posted:
Dec 30, 2004 - 15:47 |
|
| Quote: | mutescreamer wrote:
How do you pull a rib?
I was trying to point out there's allsorts of things that can happen. Alan Hinkes (a yorkshireman and mountaineer) was eating a chapati when climbing K2 (hardest mountain in the world to ascend). Flour caused him to cough, and he broke a rib. Got helicoptered off.
|
nice story.....still doesn't explain how you can pull a bone though |
|
|
Arktoris
Joined: Feb 16, 2004
|
| Posted:
Dec 30, 2004 - 16:00 |
|
Seppuku,
Keep in mind Bloodbowl is designed to be played table top, not online. This means the goal of your team is to earn a trophy, not just build up (though that's a close second). Most leagues play tournament style which means often a new coach with a 130TR will have to play that 230TR chaos/orc team. Without aging, eventually one team rises to super killer status and everyone else either has no fun playing them (but still has to, it's a tournament), or just walks away from bloodbowl altogether. I believe this was Jervis' explanation for aging when the 5th ed. rules came out.
With aging and virus combo, eventually that super team must retire it's legends and fall back into the pack.
Additionally, the game is designed so you don't break TR 225 barrier. why? because after that, the game gets stressful. If you kill my rookie black orc, no problem, I'll buy another. But when every player is a star, that means each death could be a year of hard work gone. In an environment like that, the tension among friends gets thick enough to cut. I've seen enough fights break out when this happens. |
_________________
Hail to Manowar! The latest charioteer to DIE for bloodbowl! - Slain, by Ghor Oggaz |
|
mutescreamer
Joined: Apr 09, 2004
|
| Posted:
Dec 30, 2004 - 16:06 |
|
ageing is part of the game....end
and it does make it even more rewarding when you manage a skill roll and don't age. Rewards are good |
|
|
CorporateSlave3
Joined: Feb 07, 2004
|
| Posted:
Dec 30, 2004 - 16:15 |
|
| arktoris wrote: |
Additionally, the game is designed so you don't break TR 225 barrier. |
This is why I like the Vault 'Salary Cap' feature better than ageing - it presents a solid 'block' to higher TR monster teams, rather than a frustratingly random 'ageing' system that can practically cripple any team at any point, with a few bad rolls.
You can choose to build up your TR past the cap and hope you don't get too seriously injured - or just play on with the injuries (since you won't be getting any cash to replace them), or you can manage your TR to stay below it (as is generally intended). What you don't have to deal with is your rookie War Dancer getting +ST and ageing niggle on their first skill, (which would lead to more fights than killing off star players on turn 16 fouls - if only it was rolled by an opponent rather than a faceless random number generator! ) |
|
|
Kommando
Joined: Dec 08, 2003
|
| Posted:
Dec 30, 2004 - 16:22 |
|
| mutescreamer wrote: | ageing is part of the game....end
and it does make it even more rewarding when you manage a skill roll and don't age. Rewards are good |
spps for fouls are part of the game... um no more. like a dozen other things.
and hey, how about a d6 roll for every skill a player gets. on a 6 he dies. that would make it even more rewarding. |
|
|
Arktoris
Joined: Feb 16, 2004
|
| Posted:
Dec 30, 2004 - 16:29 |
|
| Quote: |
This is why I like the Vault 'Salary Cap' feature better than ageing - it presents a solid 'block' to higher TR monster teams, rather than a frustratingly random 'ageing' system that can practically cripple any team at any point, with a few bad rolls.
|
Yeah there are several things in the vault that are appealing. One thing I neglected in my other post is, I do find aging frustrating....just see it as a necessary evil. |
_________________
Hail to Manowar! The latest charioteer to DIE for bloodbowl! - Slain, by Ghor Oggaz |
|
nazerdemus
Joined: Nov 02, 2004
|
| Posted:
Dec 30, 2004 - 16:34 |
|
| Seppuku wrote: |
So, please, someone spell out simply, what is/are the reasons for aging, apart from screwing team development, and thereby stopping most coaches enjoy the teams they build even more than they do now? |
Okay Ill give it a go but you probably wont like it
1) Real People get old - They reach their Prime and they fade away .
2) You dont need to be a tactical Genius to get Wood Elf Thrower with , strong arm, acurate ,pass,sure hands,pro,block and dodge, pass ball to movement 11 catcher ,with dodge, catch, sure feet ,sprint ,leap ,
and a wardancer with str 4 frenzy ,block, dodge, leap , to make a gap if you need one .
No amount of tactical Knowledge will stop you scoring a one turner 9 times out of ten with just these 3 players , now without any aging each of your elf teams will end up with players like this who have these skills forever (Yawn )
Sure building up the perfect scoring team is fun but aging means eventually this will end and you can try again .Equally having 11 players with block tackle - kill kill skills gets a bit monoyonous to play with ,
3) Its why the England Football Team no longer plays George Best
4) In league play it means new teams can join the league and not always be 200 trs below the top team
5) Developing a team for long term success is a skill , you should plan for aging
6) Name 1000 sporting "Legends " ? You cant then why should there be 1000 bloodbowl legends with the criteria for becoming a legend just being playing a lot . ( I know its due to luck whether or not these players age but if you wanna call it luck It could be destiny )
7) Your Team Strength is affected by the Aging Rolls so its accounted for and shouldnt affect your chances of winning in a ranked game .
 when you say most coaches you mean the "whingers " coaches , these are usually the cherry pickers the once who think fouling should be banned and claws / rsc should be banned and mighty blows pushing the boat out
9) if you ever got the team you Dream of you would be bored , your games would all be 12 -12 draws as youd never play a bash team anyway , so its for your own good really
10 ) FOULING IS OKAY AND IS PART OF THE GAME , THE RESULTS OF FOULS ARE RANDOM
Hope this helps |
Last edited by nazerdemus on %b %30, %2004 - %17:%Dec; edited 1 time in total |
|
|
|
| |
Chaos Draft League R...
Search
