JanMattys
Joined: Feb 29, 2004
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Jan 03, 2005 - 12:56 |
 
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I have just read the last "Cherry-picking: good tactic or cheesy exploit?" thread about Ranked Division, so I thought about it and I have a proposal to make.
Feel free to flame me 
Is it possibile to add a bonus to the coach ranking for those who keep a balanced percentage of opponents?
Something like this: have all races divided into three categories (i.e: "bashy", "balanced" and "running") and then let's have a bonus added for those who do play "at least" one of each category every (say) 5, or 7, or 10 games.
Alternatively, a penalty could be calculated for those who do not (which is the same thing but sounds a bit more appropriate to me, since cherry pickers should be penalized imho  ).
I know this is not-so-compatible with the idea of an "open" division... but hey, after all there's no Open Division now... it is called Ranked!
I'd like some feedback about this.
Jan |
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BunnyPuncher
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Jan 03, 2005 - 14:09 |
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Because of skill choice. A chaos team with no claw/rsc is not that bashy. One with many of them is.
An orc team with no MB, no matter how high their armour, are not that bashy. One with 8-9 MB players is.
The only team that falls in a category of their own tends to be dorfs, as the longbeards are pretty much going guard, mighty blow unless they roll doubles.
And its these "killah skills" (along with dp, po etc). are what usually decide whether or not someone plays a team not the "race".
(although some seem to have this weird unsupported view that even a total noob will own them with chaos dwarfs, which is really odd.) |
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quota
Joined: Nov 24, 2003
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Jan 03, 2005 - 14:15 |
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/agree with BunnyPuncher |
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the only good undead is a dead, uhm, undead... |
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Slick
Joined: Jul 03, 2004
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Jan 03, 2005 - 16:15 |
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Well let's look at the most obvious solution to cherry picking. If you feel you are being "picked", don't play the person. Tell them nicely where they can go ... ehhem. Personally I discriminate based more on FF than anything else because I'm greedy, and I know that a team with a higher FF probably has a more sporting coach. The heart of blood bowl is to be fearless however, so don't become a "picker" by avoiding them too much. Once in a while take on what seems to be an insurmountable challenge. Who knows, maybe you'll get lucky and pound the pounder. |
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CorporateSlave3
Joined: Feb 07, 2004
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Jan 03, 2005 - 17:02 |
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Well, this idea I've had might belong more in "feature requests" but on the other hand, it fits in with the topic of this post:
Medals of Honor. This is something I'm working on for my own rather bashy chaos team. Although at the moment it is going to be nothing more than a mere 'recognition' by myself, I'm planning on trying to talk the Chaos Horde into doing something like this.
Basically, those of us who have bashy teams know who we are, and sometimes softer teams play us, either for the challenge, or the sport of it, to keep in the spirit of Blood Bowl, insanity, etc. For those coaches of softer AG teams who choose to face my bashy chaos and prove themselves in combat on the pitch(either by winning brillantly, or never giving up to the point of suicidally insane plays to wrest the ball free, etc.) I am planning to list them as Medal of Honor recipients in the Team's Bio (which I would PM them to let them know they should link to it in their own team's bio, should they wish to).
Of course, this is not the greatest incentive, but if such an award could be implemented for all of Ranked (where the most cherry picking occurrs) whereby a coach could nomiate another coach for being a man with his AG team and facing the bashy music (either the opposing coach or an impressed spectator) by providing the link to the match in question, where it could be reviewed and possibly be awarded a Medal of Honor - either for the team in question, or a particular player. While there would necessarily (due to it being in Ranked) be no monetary, SPP, Coach Ranking, or any other 'tangible' reward, it might be nice sort of thing to have on your coach, team, player Bio. Proof that you've been a man an not just cherry picked your way around Fumbbl.
Anyway, I realize this could be a logisitcal nightmare, and although the approvers/admins are doubtlessly busy enough as it is, I'll just throw it out as one possible way to encourage more evenly distributed play, without needing some sort of policy in place to enforce such a thing. Maybe if Fumbbl can't handle the workload at the moment, if enough bashy coaches were to start listing honored opponents on their team/coach Bios it might at least make the softer teams (like most of mine!) feel better about facing the cashier ones (like the rest of mine!).
Any thoughts? |
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SixFootDwarf
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Jan 03, 2005 - 17:09 |
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I'm still kind of up-in-the-air about what exactly "cherry picking" is...is it picking on coaches that are new/low coach rating, or is it always playing someone whose TR/STR is consistantly lower than yours? Or is it a combination of those two?
I generally play vs. coaches that aren't at the same coach rating as I am due to the fact that most coaches that are 160+ won't play me...or will only do so if it's their Chaos/Dwarf vs. my Rats/Elves. (of course there are exceptions...it's just rare) It's especially bad if their team is undefeated or has a really good record. I decline games only because my team might not live through the experience, not because I might lose. I wish more people were like that.
But really Jan...there's no systematic way to deal with whatever version of "cherry picking" you're upset about. You can't legislate away players. FUMBBL is a world-wide community, and like any large (in this case HUGE!) community you're gonna have your good apples and bad apples. So I don't think there's any real solution to this "problem". How about just play ball?!?! |
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Mithrilpoint
Joined: Mar 16, 2004
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Jan 03, 2005 - 17:11 |
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How about just play ball?!?!
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Halleluja!
Stop the whining and play ball.
M |
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Stop the Whining! |
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thesquig
Joined: Apr 11, 2004
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Jan 03, 2005 - 17:11 |
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I like it, but it doesnt increase the incentive to play bashy teams much more. Also like Bunny said, if the team aint bashy, its just strong. EG Wood elves vs ogres. Ogres wont ever catch them or knock them over... |
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SixFootDwarf
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Jan 03, 2005 - 17:20 |
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I like the Slave's idea. Yeah, logistically it'd be a nightmare but it's a good way to at least take a bit of pride in their team. When you see that Woodie team with only 5 players and 10 Medals of Honor, you'll know what kind of coach that guy is. (i.e. insane) |
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JanMattys
Joined: Feb 29, 2004
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Jan 03, 2005 - 17:35 |
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@ Mithrilpoint: I am no whiner. Just trying to improve the large majority's gaming experience in Ranked.
@SixFootDwarf: I'll always take on all races in Ranked (with my orcs as well as with my coming soon skaven), and my first (and only) goal is play ball... I know that my proposal sounds like a draconian one, but still I think that something should be made to keep Cherry Picking in some kind of "control" before the whole Ranked Division morphs into some huge elf-eater blob. I like diversity, and a Division where Orcs play orcs and Elves only play Elves just plain sucks imho. (That's just an example, obviously).
There are MANY ways to balance things... CorporateSlave3's idea sounds good to me, even if I would award a medal based on my categories (ie: diversity of opponents played... or number of different races faced at least once every 20 games... something less "personal"). But my idea is just what it is: an idea.
If you don't think Ranked needs ideas at all, then be fine. If you think it needs some adjustments, then feel free to add more. |
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SixFootDwarf
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Jan 03, 2005 - 17:52 |
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I understand, bro. There's just not a lot that can be done about it, IMO. Christer can't really (realistically) change the site to MAKE people play diverse opponents. That's why this place is so cool...you're FREE! No Big Brother/Herr Adolf making you play a certain way or act a certain way (within reason. Getting booted for being a punk is a good idea).
Things like stalling, fouling religiously, playing coaches that are new/not very good...these things just happen. It's like IRL...bad stuff happens. Talking about it like this is just that...talk. There's no way either the BBRC or Christer can "fix" all these "problems". Ya just have to wade through it. |
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monboesen
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Jan 03, 2005 - 18:00 |
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erhhmm. The cherry picking (or as I practise it "Keep my team alive") will never stop as long as you have a league where you can freely choose whom to play. And it really shouldn't anyway.
Your problem seems to be that you actually put value in coach rating and assume that other people do the same. The rating means little really. My coachranking for example is usually decent. But that does not show that I'm good at the game. It shows that I'm good at winning the games I choose to play (meaning ballplaying games). No doubt it would be lower if I played more diverse opponents.
But you know what. I don't care about coachrating. To me its just a useless artefact of some mumbo jumbo math applied to my choise of games. I don't choose games to improve it, actually I would be happier without it. If I want to evaluate a coach's skill at the game I go to his statistics page and check out his teams, that gives a much better picture.
Speaking for myself I couldn't care less about some sort of medal system either.
People play for different reasons. Live with it. |
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nportela
Joined: Aug 18, 2004
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Jan 03, 2005 - 18:04 |
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| SixFootDwarf wrote: | I'm still kind of up-in-the-air about what exactly "cherry picking" is...is it picking on coaches that are new/low coach rating, or is it always playing someone whose TR/STR is consistantly lower than yours? Or is it a combination of those two?
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maybe there could be a topic for this...
What is cherry picking after all?
is this a "cherry picking" proposal, a 200/200 CD vs 200/200 Woodies ?
who is the cherry picker? the one who makes the proposal or the one that dont accepts?
To those who consider that cherry picking is playing against new coaches, i understand, but imho and as a recently ex-new coach, 
all those matches from my 1st woodies against all those bashy chaos and dwarven teams taught me very much... and didnt make me lose my interest in the game, by the contrary, they gave me more enthusiasm to keep playing, and arranging new tatics and new teams...
NP |
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Glomp
Joined: Jan 04, 2004
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Jan 03, 2005 - 18:18 |
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/me flames JanMattys
Nah I like it.
Something good to add to the formula.
I challenged someone awhile ago who said 'I only play elves'.
Wanted to spank him like a monkey ever since... |
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Mithrilpoint
Joined: Mar 16, 2004
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Jan 03, 2005 - 21:32 |
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@janMattys - my comment wasn´t aimed at you or at any person in particular. It was aimed at the tendency to whine about cherrypicking, my point being : live with it. Play the game.
M |
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