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Mully



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Jan 03, 2005 - 21:53 Reply with quote Back to top

Quote:

But you know what. I don't care about coachrating. To me its just a useless artefact of some mumbo jumbo math applied to my choise of games


Thats an excellent description of what it really is. Most Coaches with high ratings have strong knowledge of the game so that they can quickyl decipher rosters/skills to know when they have the tactical advantage and then choose to play those games.

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SixFootDwarf



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Jan 03, 2005 - 22:42 Reply with quote Back to top

...they also know when NOT to play Dwarves with Wood Elves. hehe
Darkwolf



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Jan 03, 2005 - 23:16 Reply with quote Back to top

To start with a definaition of 'cherry picking' I would start with coaches who are danish- but that could be biased redneck point of view. As my Grotty acticle said, coaches who have win percetages greater than 80% are cherry pickers. As for bonuses or anything like that, not needed. I've stopped worrynig about what other coaches do and concentrate on myself and my own teams. I won't build uber bashy teams as I like to win and score.

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Pelzmuff



Joined: Jun 23, 2004

Post   Posted: Jan 03, 2005 - 23:25 Reply with quote Back to top

Cherrypicking, IMO, is one of the following actions:

a) Deliberately looking for unfair matchups (my chaos dwarves vs. your amazons, my vampires vs. your ogres , your no tackle team vs. my blodging squad, etc.)
b) Deliberately looking for weaker coaches (CR and win %)
c) A combination of the a) and b) (all blodge team vs. no tacklers with lower TR for handicaps...)

@Darkwolf: Yea, winning percentages over 80% are look pretty suspicious to me, too. Bloodbowl is a game of chance and I don't see how you can swing those chances to better than maybe 65% in a fair matchup...but then again that's nearly my winning percentage. Perhaps my horizon is just limited to a very narrow perspective and I don't play all that well..............nah, can't be Wink
Vero



Joined: Dec 30, 2003

Post   Posted: Jan 03, 2005 - 23:31 Reply with quote Back to top

What's wrong with cherrypickers?

Cherrypicking is just a way to improve your ranking. Isn't that the purpose of ranked, te get better ranking and show that you're a better coach. When everybody cherrypicks only those games which the both sides think they can win (and survive) are played and the ultimately best coach of Fumbbl is found. Those people who couldn't care about their ranking can play their games at Unranked or DivX, right?

Oh, there isn't enough coaches to get games on non-ranked divisions. Well shit happens, if nobody plays them then everybody likes ranked and there's no cherrypicking problem. If somebody is cherrypicking at Unranked or DivX then he's at wrong place too - who plays those non-competitive divisions without wanting just a good game and some fun time?
thesquig



Joined: Apr 11, 2004

Post   Posted: Jan 03, 2005 - 23:35 Reply with quote Back to top

I do occasionally get offers from elves that are all blodge against some of my bashy teams, I usually reject if I know he will run circles around me.

Cherry picking doesnt just happen with bashy teams, the elven players that just play elves or pick the nontackle teams to play also count...

I dont think that cherry picking will ever stop, its just part of being able to choose your own games. I remember getting real mad after being cherry picked as a noob, its not fun, but it happens.

Squig

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Mithrilpoint



Joined: Mar 16, 2004

Post   Posted: Jan 03, 2005 - 23:58 Reply with quote Back to top

@vero - thank you. You wrote what i was too lazy to write. Very well put. I agree.

@Darkwolf - Being a dane i´ll take that as compliment as a consequence of Vero´s point. Wink

M

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zredna



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Jan 04, 2005 - 06:36 Reply with quote Back to top

There are two things that sustain cherry-picking.
The Pickers and the Cherries.
My point is that it's up to both coaches to think "Will this be a fun game for me?" if the answer is no then they shouldn't play. Playing in an open environment gives us the choise to only play fun matches. Bye this I don't meen play the same type of matches every time, I think divesity is fun. But I think it's totaly okay to stay away from the teams with alot of RSC/C/MB. But in that case you are not a cherry-picker you are a thorn-avoider.
In my opinion the only form of cherry-picking that exist is when experiensed coaches benefit from beginers, because they are the only ones that alowe them self to be picked, experiensed coaches don't.
Zredna
SixFootDwarf



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Jan 04, 2005 - 22:36 Reply with quote Back to top

Quote:

Cherry picking doesnt just happen with bashy teams, the elven players that just play elves or pick the nontackle teams to play also count...


Are you nuts?? Just because an Elf team doesn't play a bashy team every other game he's "cherry picking"?? Get real! One of the reasons there are FIVE slots for Ranked teams is so you can diversify. (What if a Dwarf team plays nothing but bashy games? Is that "cherry picking" too?) You make an Elf team or two for flashy, high-scoring games, a Dwarf/Orc team for pounding people into sludge and a Human or Rat team for all-around fun. Don't go around labeling people or their teams because they don't take on Chaos with Wood Elves all the time. Experienced coaches pretty much know that a 200+TR Chaos/Dwarf team is gonna mangle an Elf team, win or lose. (exceptions of course)

My Pro Elves have strictly played other Elves, Rats, Humans for that reason...I like to play 'em. And I'm hurting for players as it is! Who says Darkies or High Elves can't hurt you? If you're AV7 they sure can. I don't need to play a Dwarf team to prove myself as a coach or that my team is good. I might win, but it'd be a slow (once HE got the ball), brutal game and I'd have 8 players for the next game and be fighting off retirement for the next 20 games....but OH, I wouldn't be an evil, cheesy "cheery picker", huh?

Use common sense and just play.
SergeiBautin



Joined: Jul 15, 2004

Post   Posted: Jan 11, 2005 - 12:12 Reply with quote Back to top

A question for you, fellow players : do you agree to a mach-proposal that you is almost certain that you will loose, or that your team will be turned into chowder? I dont. I agree to play, or challenge teams, that i think is evenly matched, or that i think i could beat. I never play teams that only wanna kill me (X number of dirty players, Claw, RSF, MB), unless i have a similar team (witch i havent been ble to develop, they die early!). The main reason to agree to a match is to try to win, have fun, and remembering that it is a game, not life or death. I loose my temper too sometimes when the old snakeeyes stare at you for the 4:th time in the game, but i at least try to keep my comments friendly (not always succesful, sorry!).

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JanMattys



Joined: Feb 29, 2004

Post   Posted: Jan 11, 2005 - 12:22 Reply with quote Back to top

I get your point Sergei... I really do.

But think about this: if you take your point to his greatest extent, this means:

Elf vs Elf
Skav vs elf
Skav vs skav

----------------
Orc vs orc
Orc vs khemri
khmeri vs chaos
chaos vs orc
khemri vs khemri
chaos vs chaos


Well... not THAT funny... and not THAT "Open". Don't you think?

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nazerdemus



Joined: Nov 02, 2004

Post   Posted: Jan 11, 2005 - 12:42 Reply with quote Back to top

Elf players seem to asume that they cant survive against chaos , they thing they would obviously die , my favourite Elf team are the Highland Kiwis , they have been around for donkeys years and seemingly will take on all comers , winning a good percentage of their games and playing well over 100 games , they have probably lost countless players but in my opinion kfogeds team play the game like its meant to be played if the TRs right then your not cherry picking .....IMO


Last edited by nazerdemus on Jan 11, 2005 - 13:19; edited 1 time in total
monboesen



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Jan 11, 2005 - 12:49 Reply with quote Back to top

But JanMattys, even we evil cherrypickers don't take it to the greatest extent. We just don't play killer tems/coaches. So that logic is useless.

And you still don't seem to realize that Open league can mean different things to different people. Thats why its "Open" anyway. For more diverse play go to leagues or factions.
SergeiBautin



Joined: Jul 15, 2004

Post   Posted: Jan 11, 2005 - 15:04 Reply with quote Back to top

Yes Mattys, to the extreme point, that would be it. But, i dont mind at all, to challenge a non-bashy orcteam (or similar) with elves or skaven. To challenge dwarfes with elves on the other hand is suicidal, and therefore i dont do it (who does?!).
Slick



Joined: Jul 03, 2004

Post   Posted: Jan 11, 2005 - 15:31 Reply with quote Back to top

To get back to the original point it would be nice if your team got some kind of bonus for playing at least one team of each race per month or something along those lines; however, not everyone can get in that many games (21 I think) in a month because either they dont have the time or "pansy" coaches as I like to think of them won't let their wittle elves play your orcs so youll never get a game against those races. All of that is fine and dandy but dont forget the real point of Blood Bowl which is to score as much as is needed to win while bashing your opponents head in if possible. That's what makes it fun.

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