DropDeadFred
Joined: Mar 05, 2004
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 Posted:
Jan 11, 2005 - 15:41 |
 
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people try to cherrypick flings without even looking at the roster and pay for it big time then somhow balme it on luck |
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monboesen
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Jan 11, 2005 - 15:41 |
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Slick just if you should have missed my point. It is pointless to give revards when a large part of the community wouldn't care about the reward.
Make us able to revive dead players as a reward and you will se us lining up. |
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Squaq
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Jan 11, 2005 - 15:48 |
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In the Elf vs Chaos(Mb/claws...) setup TR200+:
The elves are extreamly lucky and win 4-0.
Elves: Average 20-25 spp gained
Chaos: Average 7-13 spp gained
The chaosteam are extreamly lucky and win 2-1 on TDs and a dusin of casualties
Chaos: Average 30-35 spp gained
Eleves: Average 8-10 spp gained
The only difference on the 2 cases are that the chaos team play their next game with no memory of the game, the elves have to play several games recovering from statdrop, loss of players.
As long as the chaosteam is unaffected by a big defeat the setup between the 2 races will allways be "brave elves" vs "chaos".
Make a new rule that said that your best player would leave the team if you doesnt beat the TD-difference after a loss. Then it would take some brave chaos' too. |
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AFK_Eagle
Joined: Mar 12, 2004
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Jan 11, 2005 - 15:52 |
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Think elves are afraid to take on the rest of the fumbbl world? Then you haven't heard about the E.L.F. yet! League points awarded for playing non-elves, the more the merrier! ALL races must be played at one point or another (yes, even dwarves and ogres), or else you'll find yourself falling behind your peers who DO play them! With 8 chaos teams played and multiple khemri/ogre/orc/dwarf/chaos dwarf games as well, we're bringing the art of the elfball to the world!
Come join the revolution! The revolution against the perception that we're all cowards! Join the E.L.F. today!
Thread hijack over...though it seemed kinda appropriate to the thread anyway... |
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Listen to Eagle! Eagle is good, Eagle is wise!
Founder of the E.L.F.--These elves will play anybody! |
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nazerdemus
Joined: Nov 02, 2004
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Jan 11, 2005 - 16:15 |
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| Squaq wrote: | In the Elf vs Chaos(Mb/claws...) setup TR200+:
The elves are extreamly lucky and win 4-0.
Elves: Average 20-25 spp gained
Chaos: Average 7-13 spp gained
The chaosteam are extreamly lucky and win 2-1 on TDs and a dusin of casualties
Chaos: Average 30-35 spp gained
Eleves: Average 8-10 spp gained
The only difference on the 2 cases are that the chaos team play their next game with no memory of the game, the elves have to play several games recovering from statdrop, loss of players.
As long as the chaosteam is unaffected by a big defeat the setup between the 2 races will allways be "brave elves" vs "chaos".
Make a new rule that said that your best player would leave the team if you doesnt beat the TD-difference after a loss. Then it would take some brave chaos' too. |
yeah obviously if you stand there and let them hit you the chaos team will kill you , thats not what your meant to do ya know ....
and um 2 td s 6spp 1 mvp =11 so to get to 30-35 need to cause 10 -12 casualties all without fouling .....
How come the E.L.F. boys ,can do this and survive ?
I suppose it depends on how you want to play the game though really , so have fun and play who you want to play |
Last edited by nazerdemus on %b %11, %2005 - %16:%Jan; edited 1 time in total |
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AFK_Eagle
Joined: Mar 12, 2004
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Jan 11, 2005 - 16:21 |
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That's what he said...a dozen cas... |
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Listen to Eagle! Eagle is good, Eagle is wise!
Founder of the E.L.F.--These elves will play anybody! |
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BadMrMojo
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Jan 11, 2005 - 16:24 |
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Excessive legislation won't fix the problem. It will just make the same people look for new loopholes and cause headaches for those poor gorillas who have to enforce the new rules.
I think that living with cherrypickers is simply a fact of life - or at least life with an Open format. If we had a scheduled format we'd all be complaining about missed matches. If we had a challenge system, the same people would find ways to exploit that. Can't we just accept that some degree of cherrypicking is the price we have to pay in order to play whomever we want, whenever we want?
That said, there's still more that we can all do to help limit it:
- Don't do it yourself. Simple enough.
- If someone badgers you with an unbalanced game offer, tell them why you are turning them down. Really. I'm not advocating more pointless accusations of foul play. I'm just suggesting some respectful honesty in a situation where it may be easier to lie and be polite.
- If you spot someone else being harrassed into an unfair match, let them know you think it's a bad matchup. People will cave if they don't get support.
- Help newbies. Play some friendlies (non-uploaded games) if need be. Send 'em over to #fumbbl_academy. Fill them in on why the 140/145 Dwarves want to play their 100/110 Zons. Help them become better players so the weasels have less targets.
- Don't do it yourself. Worth repeating.
Just some thoughts. |
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Condensed Guide for Newbies |
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Cruixer
Joined: Aug 04, 2004
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Jan 11, 2005 - 17:12 |
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THE ONLY, and ONLY, I repeat, solution to cherrypicking is this:
(The only reason for AG teams to don't play bashy teams are SI and DEATH. The higher you reduce the SI & Death, the higher you'll reduce cherrypicking).
I started with a Woodie team. And, fidel to my convictions, I played any team that requested for. Without taking into account the Rating or the team (like it MUST be in the real leagues).
Look at them:
http://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=team&op=view&team_id=107892
They are NOT killed by the bashy teams (well, they had taken their part  ) but YES by the SI and Kills.
I propose this:
Armor Roll= the same.
Injury roll=the same.
Casualty table:
1-5 : BH
6 : 2nd Casualty table:
1-4: SI
5-6: Death.
The number of casualties NO CHANGES.
The number of teams destroyed YES.
They have the same effect in this MATCH.
But lets all teams play with no fear of the NEXT matches.
I've been bashed more times by AG teams than bashy teams. It's because after playing my first games with all kind of teams, I got lots of nigglings and deaths and started matches with less than 10 players.
The superstars will be stopped by the ageing (oh ageing will have a utility!  and less by the Casualties.
Think on it.
The Injury roll changed once like this change (form 1 roll to 2), and I think the game is more playable now.
All the players that WOULD like to play bashies, but DON'T want to lose completely your team, vote for it 
The table is spontaneous, but reflect the MAIN IDEA: SAME CASUALTIES, LESS SI, LESS KILLS. |
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BadMrMojo
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Jan 11, 2005 - 17:21 |
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| Cruixer wrote: | | The superstars will be stopped by the ageing (oh ageing will have a utility! and less by the Casualties. |
So you'd rather have your players fade away because of random out of game rolls than die gloriously on the field of honor?
I think you might find you're in the minority. No offense intended, just a counterpoint.
Additionally, the idea is not to change the rules of the game. People were advocating changing some rules of the league. Important distinction. |
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Condensed Guide for Newbies |
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Sparticus
Joined: Jan 31, 2004
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Jan 11, 2005 - 17:32 |
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hummm well it is worth a thught to mabey change it to 1-4 BH 5 Si 6 Rip.... and then dropping Niggles, haveing he stats drops more prevelant in the SI table... just my thoughts..... ithink with the new vault rules and claws and RSC droppng to +1... its gann help elf teams compete with these bashier teams.... |
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Cruixer
Joined: Aug 04, 2004
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Jan 11, 2005 - 17:45 |
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[/quote]
So you'd rather have your players fade away because of random out of game rolls than die gloriously on the field of honor?
quote]
Mi 5449 block, tacle, thick skull, dodge, strip ball, leap dwarf blitzer
died falling a rerrolled jump and with the apo roll.
This is as pathetic as a dwarf blitzer jumping. I don't see glory on it 
hehe, well back to the question:
in my oppnion there are only 3 solutions to cherrypicking. I DON'T SAY apply 'em. I only say they're the only solutions:
1. The original league rules or the real league rules of any kind of sports(incompatible with the main FUMBBL concept).
2. Less SI 'n Kill efects.
3. More money to win.
Most of times, with variated teams (orc, vs woddies, a classic, ) the Ag team must sacrifice player to score.
10k compenses any hurt?? I say no. The +1 FF roll don't too.
Thats all.
Is a fact, I think.
Look my last match with my team posted before.
I played a chaos pact. I started with 9 players. I jumped the 2nd half drive with 3. I humilliated the chaos pact team with a draw. He got the ref and fouled me untill I got 2 players, both knocked over, one of them Treeman. He still fouled and niggled Treeman and KO the other.
We got a draw.
That was a really humilliation for this manager.
If I were he/she, I'd abandoned bbwl forever.
I'm really proud of this match.
But my team is over.
For the moment...
I liked this match for the result, like I love my DE matches Vs other Ag teams. I enjoy the match and I'm sure I could enjoy the next.
It's possible I'm a cherrypicker.
But i'ts because the experience made me one of 'em.
And DON'T TALK me about convictions or anything.
I did it and I know what it is.
Try to act like a really non cherrypicker and you'll understand it. |
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Macavity
Joined: Nov 23, 2004
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Jan 11, 2005 - 18:05 |
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Um, I know that I wish people wouldn't all jump on my human team (Worst Win/lose record ev, and I'd like more games with my bashier guys. My problem is that Cherry-picking is horrible, but Orc vs. Elf isn't cherrypicking, DP vs AV 7 isn't cherry-picking. Cherry-picking is finding the weakest team that you are allowed to play (in terms of TS) and always going there. Other than that, join a group, there are a few that honour playing against mixed rosters... Bleagh.... Why did I post.... I hate conversations about cherry-picking
/(Edit)/ Mojo's right about everything, BTW /(edit)/ |
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Last edited by Macavity on %b %11, %2005 - %18:%Jan; edited 1 time in total |
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BadMrMojo
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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Jan 11, 2005 - 18:09 |
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| Cruixer (my emphasis added) wrote: | ...hehe, well back to the question:
in my oppnion there are only 3 solutions to cherrypicking. I DON'T SAY apply 'em. I only say they're the only solutions:
1. The original league rules or the real league rules of any kind of sports(incompatible with the main FUMBBL concept).
2. Less SI 'n Kill efects.
3. More money to win. |
First of all, let me take a moment to commend you on the italicized part. "Incompatible with the main FUMBBL concept." I, personally, really appreciate it when people take things like this into account. I agree with you wholeheartedly on that point.
I personally feel that ideas 2 and 3, however, are also incompatible with another main FUMBBL concept - which is playing by the rules of the game as they exist. As I mentioned, I think the idea that people were proposing is changes to league rules, which differ from the in-game rules. Let me know if that distinction isn't clear enough.
As a side note, I happen to disagree with changing the league rules as well. I don't believe it will accomplish anything worthwhile.
| Quote: | | Try to act like a really non cherrypicker and you'll understand it. |
From the rest of your message, I think you believe that I was trying to accuse you of something. I'd like to assure you that's not the case. I was simply trying to address your suggested solution. No accusations involved. I'm not sure what you're accusing me of here. Whatever it may be, it's ok. You can think whatever you want of me... in fact there's no way I can possibly stop you from doing so.
I don't think we're actually discussing the same phenomenon at all, however. The dreaded cherrypicking everyone is referring to is people selecting only matches in which they have a very clear advantage over their opposing coach, team or some combination thereof and the cherrypicking coach has a far greater than normal chance of winning the game.
It's not about casualties or destroying teams but actually scoring points and winning games. Agility teams will frequently do so by running rings around slower, clumsier, tougher teams... so long as they still have a significant advantage. It's the advantage - not the CAS difference - that people are primarily concerned with here.
Someone please correct me if I'm wrong. |
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Condensed Guide for Newbies |
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Cruixer
Joined: Aug 04, 2004
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| Posted:
Jan 11, 2005 - 19:22 |
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Well, okay. I agree with you in all this.
Possibly we were discussing diferent things, and surely I hadn't undestrood perfectly the cherrypicking mean.
In terms of ranked division, the only viable solution I see is reduce the maximum rating diference between teams to play. |
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Mully
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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| Posted:
Jan 11, 2005 - 19:31 |
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| Quote: |
In terms of ranked division, the only viable solution I see is reduce the maximum rating diference between teams to play.
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TR has little to do with cherry picking, it is only 1 factor and it is a small one. For a drastic example, a TR150 dwarf team challenges a TR150 Amazon team. Who is more likely to win? Identical TRs right? |
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