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johan



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: May 25, 2003 - 20:12 Reply with quote Back to top

After reacting to the low Strenth (compared to Team Rating) for a Khemri team I played against, I checked out some other Khemri teams, and noted that this seems to be a general trend.

For most teams, Strength seems to be about

Str = Team rating - cash on hand - value of 'missnext-players'

(which also seems to be the reasonable way to calculate actual team strength, by the way).

This holds true over the most the field, sometimes some points down, rarely a few points up.

Khemri, however, seems to get a hefty rebate on the Strength value. Case in point, the Khemri team I mentioned (http://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=team&op=view&team_id=10047) have (at the time this is written) Team rating 162, 50K in cash and no miss-next players. Strength should reasonably be about 155. The strength calculated was 134. As a rule, Khemri teams seem to get 15-20 points of Strength rebate, which is huge when you try to match-up balanced teams.

Even a newly created Khemri team will have around 100/85 in Team Rating/Strength, while new Dwarves will have about 100/103. Considering that the teams should be balanced in power, this is not good.

Is there a good explanation to this?
BadMrMojo



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: May 25, 2003 - 20:23 Reply with quote Back to top

The method you mentioned above (TR-cash-MNG players) is how it was originally implemented. The current strength formula calculates the cost of each player (according to JJ's design rules for creating new players, I believe) and converts it into TR. If you look next to each player's cost, you'll find their equivalent 'cost' using the strength formula. These are all added together, along with RRs and FF, etc... to figure out the TS that you see.

Why does Khemri come out so low? AV 7 and AG 2.

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Last edited by BadMrMojo on May 25, 2003 - 21:41; edited 1 time in total
Mnemon



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: May 25, 2003 - 20:29 Reply with quote Back to top

Interestinly a newly created Khemri team is on par with a new Hafling team with two trees and ff9 if above mentioned 100/85 is correct. I don't see how they are equal, actually.

-Mnemon
gophur



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: May 25, 2003 - 21:17 Reply with quote Back to top

dude halfies are uber.
Mr-Klipp



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: May 25, 2003 - 22:31 Reply with quote Back to top

It would seem that according to the player design formula, khemri are a crappy deal for what you pay.

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johan



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: May 29, 2003 - 20:55 Reply with quote Back to top

Mr-Klipp wrote:
It would seem that according to the player design formula, khemri are a crappy deal for what you pay.


Yeah, those four mummies really blow...
Grumbledook



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: May 29, 2003 - 23:29 Reply with quote Back to top

they do if you stand next to them and let them hit you
AlphaX



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: May 30, 2003 - 02:20 Reply with quote Back to top

Don't the mummies start without block?

Also, I think the flings are overrated - the stunty skill is only worth so much. ... And treemen! lol! What 25% of the games you start with 2 trees both take root! take root is like 4 niggles in player strength. Also, dodge goes down in value as you face higher TR teams...
Mr-Klipp



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: May 30, 2003 - 04:41 Reply with quote Back to top

feh, nothing like 4 niggles. Work it out. It's a 50% change of missing 50% of the game, so effectively, over multiple games the treeman will be available 75% of the game time.

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GrOUnDZer0



Joined: Sep 07, 2003

Post   Posted: Sep 08, 2003 - 21:05 Reply with quote Back to top

no..... both wrong: 75% chance that he'll play 'A' half. 25% chance to play a whole game, 50% that he'll play a single half...
[Y-Y] [Y-N] [N-Y] [N-N] => 4 different outcomes of 2 50% rolls {Y=yes, N=no}
| one half |
|most likely|
Mr-Klipp



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Sep 08, 2003 - 22:09 Reply with quote Back to top

Eh? It's one 50% roll. Either he misses the first half and shows up for the second or he is there the whole game. So, there is a single 50% chance of him missing the first half, therfore he is statistically available for 75% of all games.

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HunterX



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Sep 08, 2003 - 22:33 Reply with quote Back to top

No it's 100% that he'll play the game. Just a matter of what time he shows up Smile

Besides, it's off topic.


Last edited by HunterX on Sep 09, 2003 - 00:44; edited 1 time in total
Pardus



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Sep 08, 2003 - 22:54 Reply with quote Back to top

klipp don't bother i've had this arguement before... 75% of game time is too complicated a concept for some people...

cause if they can't workout out the maths... then obviously noone else can... right? Rolling Eyes
Frankenstein



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Sep 09, 2003 - 15:58 Reply with quote Back to top

Mr-Klipp wrote:
It would seem that according to the player design formula, khemri are a crappy deal for what you pay.

My Khemri are 12-1-3 now and I've got my first AG-upgrade 2 games ago.
Most of the times, 2 of my mummies didn't even have Block (because of doubles, I took Stand Firm and a MA-upgrade, which I'd never take again, since, due to a bug in the STR-calculation, MA 4 mummies without Block are considered stronger than MA 3 mummies with Block).
I think, that Khemri are by no means a crappy deal for what you pay, actually I'd consider them a balanced team now which can perform amazingly if properly coached.
That said, I think there is something the str-rating doesn't account for:
The degree, how much a coach is actually determined to win a game. It seems to me that many basher-coaches rather concentrate primarily on casualities than on winning.
Rimmer



Joined: Aug 19, 2003

Post 17 Posted: Sep 13, 2003 - 10:01 Reply with quote Back to top

About the treemen díscussion.

First of all I am an mathematician so trust me that this is correct:

For a single treeman:
You have a 50% dice roll to field him the first half.

For 2 treemen:
Each treeman has a 50% dice roll of playing the first half.
This means that you have 4 different outcomes of the dice rolls:
(Succes-Succes), (Succes-failure), (Failure-Succes), (Failure-Failure) each of these four combination has the same probobility (i.e. 25%).

So to conclude:
1 Treeman is on pitch (first half) in 50% of the cases.

2 Treemen: 25% of the time you have them both, 25% of the time you have 0 and 50% of the time you have 1 (during the first half).


How you came to the conclution of one treemen being on the pitch (first half) in 75% of the cases I do not know. But that is utterly wrong since the dice roll is 50%.
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