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xcver



Joined: Mar 10, 2005

Post   Posted: Dec 05, 2007 - 10:42 Reply with quote Back to top

Craftnburn wrote:
Here's a more Fluffy version that incorporates the new version of the Spider Riders:

0-2 Spider Rider 100K 7 2 3 7 Dodge, Leap, Poison Dagger, Two Heads, Wild Animal (A)
0-2 Forest Goblin Shaman 70k 6 2 3 5 Dodge, Hypnotic Gaze, Stunty (G,A)
0-4 Forest Goblin Stika 70k 6 2 3 6 Dodge, Stakes, Stunty (A)
0-12 Forest Goblins 6 2 3 6 Dodge, Stunty 40k (A)


Huh? A forest goblin costs the same as a normal goblin but has -1AV and cannot be thrown. Either this is too expensive or a normal gobbo is too cheap.

_________________
"Power without perception is virtually useless and therefore of no true value!" - Ryouken - Master of the Hokuto no Ken Martial Arts
Snowmelter



Joined: Aug 28, 2007

Post   Posted: Dec 05, 2007 - 11:22 Reply with quote Back to top

this new roster drops the idea of a passing team in stunty completly. I liked the idea.
Of course stuntys are bad passer, as the reduce the range and it is more difficult for them, therefore a strong arm on a passer is not that bad. What is good on Craftnburn´s new roster is that the catchers were droped. they were way to fast.
I also do not like the idea of one more team with poison dagger, the weakest version of the spider rider with st4 is more interessting.

to xcer: normal gobbo is too cheap
xcver



Joined: Mar 10, 2005

Post   Posted: Dec 05, 2007 - 13:02 Reply with quote Back to top

Snowmelter wrote:
to xcer: normal gobbo is too cheap


mhh according to the player costing formula goblins are correctly costed and halflings would cost only 20k...maybe there should be a new costing formula for stunty players.....I really think that all players should base on the same costing principles. Right now I have a feeling that most stunty rosters are rather costed on a "gut" feeling.

_________________
"Power without perception is virtually useless and therefore of no true value!" - Ryouken - Master of the Hokuto no Ken Martial Arts
Synn



Joined: Dec 13, 2004

Post   Posted: Dec 05, 2007 - 13:28 Reply with quote Back to top

I would absolutely love this team if not for one little problem....

Eshin exist. Daggers are defo their territory (not to mention nothing to stab with them stakes).

I am all in favor of using a forest gobbo team to replace eshin completely. Then we can turn around and work out a Clan Pestilens team (another thing I always wanted). Mabey its just the coffee talking.

__Synn
SillySod



Joined: Oct 10, 2006

Post   Posted: Dec 05, 2007 - 13:32 Reply with quote Back to top

The wild animal poisoned dagger is really cool. Having 2+ re-rollable dodges is quite powerful but feels right.

Craftnburns roster is better but loses the passing feel. I think this might be the wrong race to implement a passing roster for. Maybe pro halflings or some form of stunty elves (with Ag3) could fit the fluff for passing better.

Could the cheater star player be changed to the spider you suggested?

_________________
Putting the "eh?" back into Sexeh.

"There are those to whom knowledge is a shield. There are those to whom it is a weapon. Neither view is balanced."
xcver



Joined: Mar 10, 2005

Post   Posted: Dec 05, 2007 - 13:33 Reply with quote Back to top

I always wondered why skaven are stunty in clan eshin? are they younger players or just lowly slaves?

_________________
"Power without perception is virtually useless and therefore of no true value!" - Ryouken - Master of the Hokuto no Ken Martial Arts
SillySod



Joined: Oct 10, 2006

Post   Posted: Dec 05, 2007 - 13:35 Reply with quote Back to top

Synn wrote:

I am all in favor of using a forest gobbo team to replace eshin completely. Then we can turn around and work out a Clan Pestilens team (another thing I always wanted). Mabey its just the coffee talking.

__Synn


Replacing Eshin would solve alot of sutff.

I think that moulder has alot of potential with lots of Throtlings and runty slaves and stuff as well as lots of cool monsters.

_________________
Putting the "eh?" back into Sexeh.

"There are those to whom knowledge is a shield. There are those to whom it is a weapon. Neither view is balanced."
HunterX



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Dec 05, 2007 - 14:34 Reply with quote Back to top

Gobbos shouldn't be buffet style. That's the Gnoblar Schtick as well as possibly venturing into territories that future teams could occupy. We don't want to step on future toes either.

How about:
0-2 Spider Rider 7337 WA, Dodge, Shadowing, Leap (A) - 90K Maybe 100K was too steep for ST 2, So gives it ST3 and drop the 2-heads, Dagger and cost to 90K.

We could allow Fumlig to be a Star for these guys as well. And add another Star with Poison Dagger for additional Forest Gobliney flavour.

And then:
0-2 Forest Goblin Shaman 60k 5 2 3 6 Dodge, Hypnotic Gaze, Stunty (G,A) Hypno and General Access at a cost of 1 MA, 1 AV and 20K over the std. gobbo.
0-4 Forest Goblin Stika 50k 6 2 3 6 Dodge, Stakes, Stunty (A) Stakes for a cost of 1 AV and 10K over std. gobbo.

Linos remain unchanged.

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Khaan



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Dec 05, 2007 - 14:37 Reply with quote Back to top

Won't stakes completely pulverize any future undead stunty team?

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Even small goblins make large dents if provided sufficient thrust.
A well aimed goblin is the second most dangerous thing on a Bloodbowl pitch.

The Boyz
HunterX



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Dec 05, 2007 - 14:38 Reply with quote Back to top

SillySod wrote:
Synn wrote:

I am all in favor of using a forest gobbo team to replace eshin completely. Then we can turn around and work out a Clan Pestilens team (another thing I always wanted). Mabey its just the coffee talking.

__Synn


Replacing Eshin would solve alot of sutff.

I think that moulder has alot of potential with lots of Throtlings and runty slaves and stuff as well as lots of cool monsters.


I'd like to address Eshin after filling out the stunty roster. We need to decide on two new teams. So i'd like too take the time and look at all the candidates first.

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HunterX



Joined: Aug 02, 2003

Post   Posted: Dec 05, 2007 - 14:39 Reply with quote Back to top

Khaan wrote:
Won't stakes completely pulverize any future undead stunty team?


We'll have to see won't we? It can always be changed.

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Fizban



Joined: Sep 09, 2003

Post   Posted: Dec 05, 2007 - 15:53 Reply with quote Back to top

Stunty gives us the most room to play around with interesting and strange ideas - lets not be too formulaic in team creation, but make something that will be competetive and fun, without also resorting to a team that is fairly 'normal' feeling.

Here is an idea, taken from many of the previous posts in this thread (costs are for you guys to work out):

0-2 Spider Riders 7 4 2 7 Wild Animal, Two Heads, Shadowing (S, A)
The defenders on the team. Back to being big and scary and strong, but without big guy so they *can* work with the team if they have to (they have a goblin on their backs). The spiders are wild (Wild Animal) and uncontrollable, enjoying playing with their prey before eating it (Shadowing). It has two heads and 10 eyes, it gets Two Heads, but has only AG 2. These guys are very scary to most little guys, but not so to a true 'big guy', especially with the comparatively low AV.

0-2 Forest Goblin Shamans 5 2 3 7 Foul Appearance, Hypnotic Gaze, Dodge, Stunty (P. A)
In charge of the Forest Goblin spirituality, these leaders of the tribe don their hideous masks before battle (Foul Appearance) to paralyze their opponents with fright (Hypno Gaze). They can take passing skills, because they know how they would like things to pan out and how to send others on errands for them. This brings the option for a passing game back to the team, but weakly. (Option: remove stunty - the masks are cumbersome, but they'll pass better)

0-4 Forest Goblin Hunters 6 2 3 6 Stakes, Dodge, Stunty (A)
These are the elite of the forest goblin tribe. They use the spears (Stakes) to stab their prey to death, once it has been flushed out by the spider riders and the basic forest goblins. Like all goblins, they are still cowards, but at least they have a bit of a pointy stick to hide behind.

0-12 Forest Goblins 6 2 3 6 Dodge, Stunty (A)
Um - these are goblins - they live in the forest, but they are still just goblins (with slightly crappier AV for balancing purposes).

Overall, I am excited about the idea of a Forest Goblin team. The passers have foul appearance, which makes them 'spooky' and could be infinitely frustrating (and amusing) when trying to blitz them. They don't have a big hitter, but one could be built out of a spider rider, if you don't want to make it a 'mobile' big guy (always unreliable because of wild animal). I agree with Synn about not adding a bunch of poison daggers to the team - it would just make them eshin-like. The stakes are amusing, allowing for some damage on hits, possible ejection and the true goblin nature to shine through: causing more damage on a foul. No TTM on the team makes them less like the old goblins and more of a team that can use a passing game (however weak).

Ideas I've thought about and rejected, but still need mentioning here:
Multiple type big guys, like gnoblars. It would be cool to add a more mobile, poison spear weilding spider rider (8 3 2 7 Wild Animal, Shadowing, Poison Dagger, Two Heads (A), but it steps on eshin toes and I don't like the idea of a teams 'big guy' being subject to ejection - too debilitating a swing, even though it is a 10+. I also think its ball handling skills with st3 and ma8 are just too good, even though it is a WA.

Giving the spider riders OFAB and forest goblins Thrall - it makes fluff sense, but deviates more from the basic team idea than I would like.

Spider Riders only st3. Not bad for balancing them in the team, but this team has no (G) access, no poison daggers and is going to be playing against teams with ST 5 big guys. Let them have their scary, fragile spiders and see if they can stand up to the true big guys. Remember that the spider riders still have WA, so they are going to be unreliable ball carriers at best (3/4 chance of running in the td, with a rr, unless you use your blitz action to do it).

Giving the gobbos st1 and making them faster (ma7) with Jump Up. When the forest goblins go down, they are just playing dead (if they aren't actually dead). This lets em fool their opponents - how sneaky. Bah - gobbos are still gobbos - they have a bit of fight in them and jump up is just too good.

That's all - I should get some sleep. Still wouldn't mind seeing another spider rider so that there is some choice in them (with only 2 allowed still), but Hunter dislikes that idea, so lets go with what he says Smile.

Fizban
Craftnburn



Joined: Jul 29, 2005

Post   Posted: Dec 05, 2007 - 16:55 Reply with quote Back to top

Synn wrote:
Eshin exist. Daggers are defo their territory (not to mention nothing to stab with them stakes).


Why should Daggers be the sole providence of Eshin? Cheaters and Gnomes both have Bombers.

And Stakes still give +1 even if not used on undead (which is more the point for these guys anyway)

Khaan wrote:
Won't stakes completely pulverize any future undead stunty team?


Stakes activates based upon a specific list of team Races or the Undead Trait. It won't activate vs any stunty undead team unless we give them the undead trait. So.. we can make it work on stunty undead if we want, or not.

HunterX wrote:
Gobbos shouldn't be buffet style. That's the Gnoblar Schtick as well as possibly venturing into territories that future teams could occupy. We don't want to step on future toes either.

How about:
0-2 Spider Rider 7337 WA, Dodge, Shadowing, Leap (A) - 90K Maybe 100K was too steep for ST 2, So gives it ST3 and drop the 2-heads, Dagger and cost to 90K.

We could allow Fumlig to be a Star for these guys as well. And add another Star with Poison Dagger for additional Forest Gobliney flavour.

And then:
0-2 Forest Goblin Shaman 60k 5 2 3 6 Dodge, Hypnotic Gaze, Stunty (G,A) Hypno and General Access at a cost of 1 MA, 1 AV and 20K over the std. gobbo.
0-4 Forest Goblin Stika 50k 6 2 3 6 Dodge, Stakes, Stunty (A) Stakes for a cost of 1 AV and 10K over std. gobbo.

Linos remain unchanged.


agreed about Buffet.

Ma 7 St 3 Ag 3 would be too good in stunty even with WA.

Why -ma on the Shaman? I think that'll overly weaken their effectiveness both with HG and as ball carriers.
SillySod



Joined: Oct 10, 2006

Post   Posted: Dec 05, 2007 - 17:52 Reply with quote Back to top

I really liked the way that the spiders could strike where they wanted but werent so good at defending themselves.

When they have wild animal too it makes you have to think how to use them. You are obviously paying alot for each dagger (from the mobility) so they probably wont excel on the line of scrimmage. On the other hand you can only conduct a single blitz each turn, wasting your other dagger (if you buy it). You then also have to think about the safety of your spider, lets face it, at St 2, one of the new positionals will bring it down and it will be fouled. This at least ensures that its not too easy to use (while still being effective).

_________________
Putting the "eh?" back into Sexeh.

"There are those to whom knowledge is a shield. There are those to whom it is a weapon. Neither view is balanced."
Craftnburn



Joined: Jul 29, 2005

Post   Posted: Dec 05, 2007 - 19:39 Reply with quote Back to top

Ok, I think i've changed my mind on Daggers for the Spiders, not because of Eshin, but because that's too many players who can get ejected.

I've also changed my mind about HunterX's latest version.. at St 3 they can be the Forest Gobs BGs, but to keep them from dominating the Ball carrying, yet still keeping 2 heads (too important due to fluff).. how about:

0-2 Spider Rider 100k 7327 WA, Dodge, Shadowing, Leap, Two Heads (A)
0-2 Forest Goblin Shaman 60k 6 2 3 5 Dodge, Hypnotic Gaze, Stunty (G,A)
0-4 Forest Goblin Stika 50k 6 2 3 6 Dodge, Stakes, Stunty (A)
0-12 Forest Goblins 6 2 3 6 Dodge, Stunty 30k (A)
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