Eddy
Joined: Aug 04, 2004
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 Posted:
May 07, 2005 - 04:07 |
 
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please, if we get a mix between cherrypicking, fouling, and the random numbers generator, this thread will become the antichrist ^^ |
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'The generation of random numbers is too important to be left to chance.'
Robert R. Coveyou |
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Laviak
Joined: Jul 19, 2004
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May 07, 2005 - 06:45 |
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To me, the most fun games are the ones that are close, and either / both coaches are forced into risky plays to try for a win. I also mostly prefer playing ball than bashing .. i just have more fun going for the ball / touchdowns than taking every player on the opposing team off the field.
To be honest, if I don't enjoy a game against particular coach, I'll probably not ask them for a game in the future. I won't neccessarily refuse to play them again .. but I certainly won't go out of my way to play games against them.
I only really dislike stalling if it is not going to make a difference to the outcome of the game. E.g, stalling for 4 turns when you are already up 1-0 is just boring. Sure, it may become 2-1 if you don't stall, but it may also become 3-0. In any of these cases you still win, and the non-stalling one will be more fun for your opponent.
Try to make the game FUN - not just for yourself, but for your opponent too. |
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monboesen
Joined: Aug 02, 2003
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May 07, 2005 - 08:29 |
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| Quote: |
And it's all because of the 'protect your players, dodge away every turn' style of play. It's just not that effective a defense
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Its a very valid defense as long as you end up scoring more TD than you opponent 
Many times it can be more advantageous to let the opponent score fast. Especially when theres only a few turns left, you are leading by 1 TD and you expect that you will be able to score easily yourself. If you defend hard it could easily mean that the opponent ends up tieing scoring and leaves you to little time to pull ahead again. |
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paulhicks
Joined: Jul 19, 2004
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May 07, 2005 - 10:09 |
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| bogh wrote: | I seriously cannot understand the problem. If you don't like cheryrpicking don't play ranked.
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Dont imagine for 1 second that "cherry picking" in whichever form you think it takes only exists in ranked. outside of pre-scheduled tournaments where players are forced to play each other every division shows all the typical behaviour that everyone here seems to find so upseting. i can show you matches from stunty, faction and unranked (wont comment on ladder as i dont know enough about it) that have been obviously one sided. |
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vanGorn
Joined: Feb 24, 2004
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May 07, 2005 - 10:17 |
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Yes, paulhicks is right. There are more motivations for cherrypicking than climbing the coach rating ladder, though that one may be the most obvious. |
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CircularLogic
Joined: Aug 22, 2003
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May 07, 2005 - 11:54 |
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Wow... alot of things to comment over night, I´ll start with this:
| bogh wrote: | I seriously cannot understand the problem. If you don't like cheryrpicking don't play ranked.
Ranked has one purpose: Building you team. There is no reward for winning games except the effects on your team.....
Summing:
Ranked is about team building. Nothing else there. Cannot expect anyone to play games that jepardize his/her team. Some will do it, but it really makes no sense. Nothing to gain from an expensive win....
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I don´t know, but RANKED should be about RANKING! (Sounds obvious, right?)
If you are looking for a division, ONLY meant to be for fun and teambuilding, go to DIVX! There is no aging, too.
But you also state the major problem:
There is no reward for a costly win (besides 0.15 coachrating) and there is NO penalty for losing if you don´t care about CR.
| banana_fish900 wrote: | | I don't get the bashy teams are unexciting bit. If anything, they are perhaps more exciting than agility teams. Think about it. You want to work toward a tie in the first half and then use ball control for eight turns. With people throwing bodies into your cage, and you trying to find that one hole in their defense. The only time it gets unexciting is when you don't achieve the first goal early.... |
Well, I don´t get it what´s so exciting about bashing/fouling the opposition into pulp the first 2 turns, marching to the endzone uncontested and camping there until turn 8. Sadly games with bashy teams often look like this. |
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meanandgreen
Joined: Mar 21, 2004
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May 07, 2005 - 12:30 |
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this is one frickin moron  : he won't even play against himself!
of course, that's his only bit of intelligence; I wouldn't play him either... 
...then again, I wouldn't even get the chance
I agree with you totally although this word coulda been chosen different
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Ele
Joined: May 09, 2004
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May 07, 2005 - 13:22 |
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To CircularLogic: I accept that you didn't mean to offend me personally and thank you for apologizing. I also did not wish insult you in any way and if I did I apologize.
To meanandgreen: Your well thought and constructive statement is surely appreciated and you can bet your life on it that I will not even ask about playing versus you let alone accept your challenge. And question to meanandgreen while I'm at it: How many DP's do you spot in my current roster (haven't played them in about 1-2 months)?
And I still fail to see what is fundamentally so bad about me not playing vs. DP teams even if I have DP? I'm just stating when I might use fouling and/or DP and it is there for all the people to see. I don't think myself as hypocrite when I state my views so openly (even if I have DP in my team).
My belief is that DP is broken - but since it is available I might keep it as ensurance against other coaches DP. As for having 4 or more damage enchancer players means my opponents team is much more bashier than I am. In those cases I reserve the option of using my DP. Now that part is the only part in my policy I myself see slightly hipocratic but I still state that view openly so everyone who checks out my roster can see it.
And I'm still saying my fouling policy is badly worded AND that I added the "Won't play DP's" - part when I fired all but 4 players and started rebuilding the team and never took DP after that.
Definition of hypocrite - n : a person who professes beliefs and opinions that he does not hold http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=hypocrite
Also I'm still stating that everybody should be left to play this game on this site whatever way they want even if that particular playing style doesn't suit their thinking. As long as I'm not being told otherwise by most of the admins or Christer himself I will continue to play by the rules and with opponents and playing style that I want.
Maybe this message is better formed than my other one.
Respectfully,
Ville Tiainen (aka Ele) |
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bogh
Joined: Oct 31, 2004
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May 07, 2005 - 13:48 |
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| Eddy wrote: | | bogh wrote: | | Ranked has one purpose: Building you team. |
says who ? sorry but that is EXACTLY what is really sad and at the root of cherrypicking. |
So what is the purpose of playing games in ranked? Your coach rating? Either way you look at it, there is no rational reason for anyone to play a dangerous matchup. There are a ton of fixed schedule tournaments out there (and you can start more if feel like it). So I have still to get an answer for my question - why not just play tournaments? |
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banana_fish900
Joined: Oct 13, 2003
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May 07, 2005 - 14:17 |
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| CircularLogic wrote: |
| banana_fish900 wrote: | | I don't get the bashy teams are unexciting bit. If anything, they are perhaps more exciting than agility teams. Think about it. You want to work toward a tie in the first half and then use ball control for eight turns. With people throwing bodies into your cage, and you trying to find that one hole in their defense. The only time it gets unexciting is when you don't achieve the first goal early.... |
Well, I don´t get it what´s so exciting about bashing/fouling the opposition into pulp the first 2 turns, marching to the endzone uncontested and camping there until turn 8. Sadly games with bashy teams often look like this. |
It's a trade-off between chances to fail and chances to be nurfed. Elven teams have a few more chances to fail because of all the ball handling they do, but in a typical elven scoring drive there is only one turn in which to play defense. Dwarves roll fewer dice in terms of ball handling, but have 8 turns in which they can be nerfed by a strip ball blitz. Both can be exciting. |
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CircularLogic
Joined: Aug 22, 2003
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| Posted:
May 07, 2005 - 14:27 |
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Dwarves have sure hands on runner and most of the time block, too. Let´s not forget the TONS of guard.
So even if you manage to leap in, you have a 1/2d block and won´t strip the ball. |
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Eddy
Joined: Aug 04, 2004
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May 07, 2005 - 14:56 |
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| bogh wrote: | | Eddy wrote: | | bogh wrote: | | Ranked has one purpose: Building you team. |
says who ? sorry but that is EXACTLY what is really sad and at the root of cherrypicking. |
So what is the purpose of playing games in ranked? Your coach rating? Either way you look at it, there is no rational reason for anyone to play a dangerous matchup. There are a ton of fixed schedule tournaments out there (and you can start more if feel like it). So I have still to get an answer for my question - why not just play tournaments? |
errr, i dunno ? PLAY THE FRICKING GAME ?
like, you know, the game's about your team winning games, shedding blood (it's and the opponent team's) to succeed, so, well, i figured that playing games was about winning them ? i don't care about my CR, even though i was glad to be among the top100 when i used to play often.
why not just play tournies ? because maybe some don't like the fixed games. you shouldn't be forced to play tournies instead of R if you don't want an environment completely rotten to the core by cherrypicking and covert-pregame arrangements... |
_________________
'The generation of random numbers is too important to be left to chance.'
Robert R. Coveyou |
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DonTomaso
Joined: Feb 20, 2005
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May 07, 2005 - 15:26 |
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IMO the main goal in BB is to have fun, and the second is to win. If you win, but you and/or your opponent didn't have fun, have you really won?
I'm one of those non-fouling coaches. I don't play many games a week and I like to se my teams evolve. Being fouled into oblivion really isn't my cup of tea, since rebuilding takes forever... (Note that I don't avoid races... My elves and norse face Ogres on regular basis...) Being blocked to death don't bother me, because it's part of the game. Fouling is also part of the game, but unnecessary...
I think it's the "duty" of the Fumbbl-people to help us find matches we like.
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Suggestion:
What if everyone had some "info-scales" (in lack of a better word) on their bio? This could easily be filled out when you register. The scales should be three (or more or less) and be about 'Fouling', 'Crowdpushing' and 'Stalling' (or other sensitive subjects).
So, when you register you fill out a form: How much do you foul?
1) Never
2) Only in stunty
3) Tactical (once every half)
4) When I want
5) Every damned turn
And similar for CP or Stall.....
Now when you get challenged you can look at the 'info-scales' and determine if the player is someone you wanna play...
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This way everybody would be happy, and no misunderstandings would occur.
The best thing would be if the 'form' was filled out automatically and updated after every game... This way it would be kept accurate all the time.
...and bashers could go look for other bashers and dodgers could find dodgers.
Everybody would have fun, which is the main goal with the game... |
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Be careful, my common sense is tingling! |
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blitzwing
Joined: Nov 24, 2003
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| Posted:
May 07, 2005 - 15:40 |
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christer stop playing wow and close this thread already |
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Eddy
Joined: Aug 04, 2004
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| Posted:
May 07, 2005 - 15:53 |
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| DonTomaso wrote: | | Being blocked to death don't bother me, because it's part of the game. Fouling is also part of the game, but unnecessary... |
nothing more to add: when you read such contradiction, it's time to drop the thread because you know it's useless. why is fouling unnecesary and blocking is not ? no one has ever Ever EVER given a decent answer to that, yet people keep stating this as if it was some kind of supernatural law. |
_________________
'The generation of random numbers is too important to be left to chance.'
Robert R. Coveyou |
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