Gumbo
Joined: Oct 11, 2003
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 Posted:
Aug 08, 2005 - 12:44 |
 
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No, we'll SO agree to disagree |
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Question: Who discovered how to milk a cow and what did they think they were doing at the time? |
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xen7ric
Joined: Jan 13, 2005
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Aug 08, 2005 - 13:07 |
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BigMac is essentially right (although I hate to admit it  ). Hiring Stars and Freebooters is part of the pre-match sequence so the game has already been agreed. It should occur after the client is started.
There is one problem however which was discussed extensively last time this topic came up. The way JBB works means that the person who Hosts the match has to choose to hire Stars, then start the match. Because of this the Client can then know that the Host has not hired and get an unfair advantage but then hiring. That is the real problem, the client always knows what freebooting decisons the Host made.
BigMac, in the interests of a peaceful forum, could you try to be slightly more moderate in your posts, you always come across very forcefully and people don't respond well (as you can see). You don't have to agree with people but flaming them is pointless.
(NB, Arktoris post on page 8 gets it completely right but everyone is so busy getting annoyed at BigMac that it is ignored...) |
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Gumbo
Joined: Oct 11, 2003
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Aug 08, 2005 - 13:12 |
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The guy condoned the London bomb attacks mate. Nuff said. |
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Question: Who discovered how to milk a cow and what did they think they were doing at the time? |
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sk8bcn
Joined: Apr 13, 2004
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| Posted:
Aug 08, 2005 - 15:45 |
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I think it's a bad behavior to try to cool down an incomming flame war. It's so fun seeing people to go to each other throat just to explain how sportsman they are.
I like that irony. |
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MrMojo
Joined: Apr 17, 2004
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| Posted:
Aug 08, 2005 - 15:49 |
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| sk8bcn wrote: | | I like that irony. |
Is it something like goldeny or silverny? |
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sk8bcn
Joined: Apr 13, 2004
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Aug 08, 2005 - 16:15 |
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Hammerhiem
Joined: Sep 07, 2004
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| Posted:
Aug 08, 2005 - 16:38 |
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| Quote: |
whether anonymous freebooting of stars in lfg situations is "bad sportsmanship" is debatable. But whether it's cheating, isn't. It's not cheating. Cheating is not tolerated on fumbbl. Someone cheats, you are suppose to file a support ticket. The cheater will be dealt with appropriately.
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How can changeing a roster after the game is agreed upon not be cheating?
Hey Hammer would you like to play my humans? your a little below my rating but i haven't got any MB or anything...
Next thing you have Morg? umm excuse me but thats not the game i agreed to, thus you changed the game by cheating to gain an advantage.
I agree to game on the Roster you present to me when you ask me for the game, if you then change it i see no reason why i should be inclined to play against you. |
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Your mind is like a parachute, it only works if it's open.
arghh bumflaps , another fumble. Why can't these Gobbo's just pick the ball up? |
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xen7ric
Joined: Jan 13, 2005
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Aug 08, 2005 - 17:29 |
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Gumbo and Sk8bcn. In light of your posts, OK, BigMouth should be shut up  . Now, where's that flamethrower...
Hammerheim, read my post. You agree to that risk every time you play a game and the other coach has cash. It's one of those rules that works in a little local league environment and not really on FUMBBL but it is the rules. |
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Hammerhiem
Joined: Sep 07, 2004
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Aug 08, 2005 - 23:17 |
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| Quote: |
but it is the rules.
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This isn't a thread about rules, it's a thread about sportmanship.
Exploiting holes in the client is cheating. |
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Your mind is like a parachute, it only works if it's open.
arghh bumflaps , another fumble. Why can't these Gobbo's just pick the ball up? |
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PurpleChest
Joined: Oct 25, 2003
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| Quote: | | Exploiting holes in the client is cheating |
Yes it is, and action is taken if its reported. But that isnt the case here.
Your arguement is spurious as it uses both sides of the equation as it suits you.
Fumbbl follows the LRB as close as it can in R. So Str is irrelevant. When you look at a team it is there tr you should look at alone. If cash is part of the tr then you must allow for that in YOUR preperation. Or not offer the game. once the game is offered would be the time for the pre game phase. hiring Stars, wizards and freebooters. Technically hiring new players here should possibly be illegal. But other than that, all is as in the LRB.
in fact by using the str system, checking team roster before playing and choosing games you believe to be balanced (or advantageous) is it not you who are exploiting the holes in fumbbl?
You may of course dissagree with the way the rules have been interpretted by those in charge of such matters at fumbbl. But it isnt cheating. Fact. To state that it is is simply incorrect. |
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Mithrilpoint
Joined: Mar 16, 2004
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Aug 09, 2005 - 02:08 |
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Amen to that PurpleChest. Not cheating in the same way as scoring with an OFAB vamp is not cheating. So not an offense punishable by the FUMBBL rules.
But frowned upon by some, myself included. Just like scoring with the vampire.
M |
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Stop the Whining! |
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CorporateSlave3
Joined: Feb 07, 2004
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Aug 09, 2005 - 02:53 |
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| Hammerhiem wrote: | | Quote: |
whether anonymous freebooting of stars in lfg situations is "bad sportsmanship" is debatable. But whether it's cheating, isn't. It's not cheating. Cheating is not tolerated on fumbbl. Someone cheats, you are suppose to file a support ticket. The cheater will be dealt with appropriately.
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How can changeing a roster after the game is agreed upon not be cheating?
Hey Hammer would you like to play my humans? your a little below my rating but i haven't got any MB or anything...
Next thing you have Morg? umm excuse me but thats not the game i agreed to, thus you changed the game by cheating to gain an advantage.
I agree to game on the Roster you present to me when you ask me for the game, if you then change it i see no reason why i should be inclined to play against you. |
The point they try to make Hammerheim, is that since hiring freebooters and stars is part of the LRB pre-match sequence, it IS something that is done after you have agreed to the match. You checked their roster, it had cash, maybe you asked, maybe you didn't - in table top you don't have to say what you're doing with your treasury before a match is agreed on. In this sense, it is bailing on a game after a freebooter is hired that is cheating 'by the book.'
Of course, I understand the sticky issue of the fact that the client will know if the server bought anything and have a chance to not join, or to make sure the server team DIDN'T hire anyone, then hire their own. This makes it a little harder to follow the letter of the LRB law, true enough. But if you agreed to play a match against a player with cash, and you make them host, then check and if they hired a star or wizard, and if they do then don't join, that is ACTUAL cheating - since according to the LRB you COULD NOT have done it legally. If you wait for them to host, then seeing that they bought a star you buy one yourself - that is the best way to follow the spirit of the rule.
After all, as I think I mentioned once before, it is not a bit suspicious (from a 'sportsmanlike' standpoint at least) when a coach wants to play a team that has tons of empty TR from cash, then gets upset when they use some cash to even out the matchup?
Now, I see the point I think you are trying to make - a coach with cash plays another coach with cash, the first coach makes the second one host, then seeing that no freebooters have been hired, they hire a couple to throw off the game balance and get a clear advantage. This is most underhanded, and I would judge quasi-cheating (since in tabletop the hosting coach could retaliate by hiring their own) - but Fumbbl rules are nevertheless quite specific that it is allowed.
This last case is what makes the situation sticky, but for the most part freebooters are pre-game sequence, so thinking you've agreed to a team with empty cash TR then getting a 'freeboot surprise' is not cheating in any sense, Fumbbl or LRB. You got Punk'd is all.  |
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CorporateSlave3
Joined: Feb 07, 2004
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| Posted:
Aug 09, 2005 - 03:49 |
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| Mithrilpoint wrote: | Amen to that PurpleChest. Not cheating in the same way as scoring with an OFAB vamp is not cheating. So not an offense punishable by the FUMBBL rules.
But frowned upon by some, myself included. Just like scoring with the vampire.
M |
Actually, wasn't it recently clairified (on TalkBowl or something) that scoring with an OFAB vamp is in fact illegal and therefore cheating? |
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BigMac
Joined: Dec 19, 2004
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Aug 09, 2005 - 04:12 |
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Arn't Vampires a underperforming race as they are?
So if there is a trouble to imblement the skill in JBB then just give Vampires the tiny leg up and say that the Vampire runns off for his bite with the ball right through the end zone where he throws his teeth into a yummy cheerleader.
In other words, change the rule to fit fumbbl. (As they did with stunned and leader nag nag nag :p)
ps. this is the kind of stuff fumbbl should allow itself to "houserule".
pps. handicap based on STR anyone... ok nevermind  |
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Mithrilpoint
Joined: Mar 16, 2004
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Aug 09, 2005 - 04:13 |
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@Corporateslave3
Indeed it was. But on FUMBBL using the javabbowl client, it´s a feature, not a bug......
Lookie lookie, me found a link to prove it.
M |
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